Panhard 201, aka the Panhard AM 40 P

JWilly said:
The EBR family of 8x8 wheeled vehicles was directly descended from the 1939-40 Panhard 201 8x8 wheeled light tank, which got only as far as the field-test-prototype stage before the 1940 hostilities began. The family resemblance is apparent:
EBR 75:
View attachment 700217
Panhard 201:
View attachment 700218
Panhard is said to have planned a next version of the 201 with sufficient scaling-up of the turret to mount a 47mm gun, thereby making the 201 as capable of anti-tank fire as the best 1940 French tanks, and therefore de facto a wheeled light tank for the Cavalry branch; and a corresponding scaling-up of the hull, to fit that larger turret.

Panhard also is said to have planned a Cavalry personnel carrier version of the successor-to-201 vehicle...the same concept that after the war became the EBR ETT.
Click to expand...
 
lastdingo said:
AFAIK these French vehicles had NO 8x8, but 8x4.
The two middle axles were not powered.
Click to expand...


The video may be wrong , but at around 11:25 the guy is explicitely saying „ … all eight wheels are powered …“
 
Jemiba said:
The video may be wrong , but at around 11:25 the guy is explicitely saying „ … all eight wheels are powered …“
Click to expand...
This website (in french) also says that all 8 wheels are powered (on the EBR, at least), complete with a diagram of the transmission
05.jpg
 
In this week's archive run at Châtellerault, I was able to find a few extra tidbits about AM201/40P. Namely a note on the weird "oblique" turret that I will try to add soon and one about the conventionnal antitank turret option: a version of the APX-5 turret seen on AM 39 Gendron Somua and AMR 35 ZT-2, but armored to a 60mm basis.
 
Here is a drawing and my rough translation of an explanatory note on the oblique turret designed for AM40P

This turret is designed with two turret rings and is divided in two parts, B which rotates relative to the hull like a regular turret, and A which holds a fixed armament and rotates around an oblique axis offset from the vertical by the angle "alpha".
Elevation is obtained by rotating Part A, achieving elevation angles between plus and minus alpha. Azimuth is obtained by traversing the entire A+B assembly (traversing B). An angled/articulated sight is necessary to keep the micrometer scale in a vertical plane.

The touted merits of this turret is the complete deletion of the trunions and mantlets as the armament is fixed.
The turret can be theoretically smaller and lighter as the gun no longer needs to move inside the turret.
The height of the eyepiece doesn't vary as much between the extreme positions C and D as in a conventionnal turret, which means the eye has to move less.
Disposing of spent cases is easier as the gun doesn't have to move, one can easily place an ejection hatch or port in Part A.

The French State was in the process of negotiating financial provisions when applying the patent to different caliber categories:
  • 6 to 37mm
  • 37mm to 75mm
  • 75mm to 155mm
  • beyond 155mm

Naturally one could argue the actual benefits of the idea given that one has to introduce a whole extra turret ring, account for the oblique turret ring presumably being smaller than the horizontal one and thus being the real limit on ammunition handling, and the space and weight claims of a double-body turret. In this regard it might share many of the same drawbacks and advantages as an oscillating turret.

PXL_20250402_115410385-ink.jpeg
 

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Elan Vital said:
Here is a drawing and my rough translation of an explanatory note on the oblique turret designed for AM40P

This turret is designed with two turret rings and is divided in two parts, B which rotates relative to the hull like a regular turret, and A which holds a fixed armament and rotates around an oblique axis offset from the vertical by the angle "alpha".
Elevation is obtained by rotating Part A, achieving elevation angles between plus and minus alpha. Azimuth is obtained by traversing the entire A+B assembly (traversing B). An angled/articulated sight is necessary to keep the micrometer scale in a vertical plane.

The touted merits of this turret is the complete deletion of the trunions and mantlets as the armament is fixed.
The turret can be theoretically smaller and lighter as the gun no longer needs to move inside the turret.
The height of the eyepiece doesn't vary as much between the extreme positions C and D as in a conventionnal turret, which means the eye has to move less.
Disposing of spent cases is easier as the gun doesn't have to move, one can easily place an ejection hatch or port in Part A.

The French State was in the process of negotiating financial provisions when applying the patent to different caliber categories:
  • 6 to 37mm
  • 37mm to 75mm
  • 75mm to 155mm
  • beyond 155mm

Naturally one could argue the actual benefits of the idea given that one has to introduce a whole extra turret ring, account for the oblique turret ring presumably being smaller than the horizontal one and thus being the real limit on ammunition handling, and the space and weight claims of a double-body turret. In this regard it might share many of the same drawbacks and advantages as an oscillating turret.

View attachment 768216
Click to expand...
IIRC from trying to model a similar German design for an AA turret, while it works well for max, min and zero depression things get kind of funky at other elevations.

Specifically, as you elevate/depress the gun the muzzle will move left and right in a figure-8 pattern, which is going to make aiming more awkward than conventional designs where you can adjust elevation and traverse independently.
 

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