PAC-3 MSE

In particular THAAD is endo and exo atmospheric capable (SM-3 is purely exo) so there likely is no gap. If anything I wonder if there might be a gap between SM-6 and SM-3.
There is a gap especially in the upper altitudes. Filling that gap requires a faster missile capable of engaging targets at significantly higher altitudes than MSE. That is precisely what the Army's Lower tier future interceptor prorgram is aiming to do. SM-2 does not help out at all with that.
 
There is a gap especially in the upper altitudes. Filling that gap requires a faster missile capable of engaging targets at significantly higher altitudes than MSE. That is precisely what the Army's Lower tier future interceptor prorgram is aiming to do. SM-2 does not help out at all with that.
I'm not really tracking. The SM-3 missile is primarily a Midcourse interceptor. THAAD, PAC-3 MSE and CRI are all terminal phase interceptors.

Can you clarify the gap are you referring to? I'm not sure what else is needed...other than just more of those interceptors.
 
The SM-3 missile is primarily a Midcourse interceptor. THAAD, PAC-3 MSE and CRI are all terminal phase interceptors.

Can you clarify the gap are you referring to? I'm not sure what else is needed...other than just more of those interceptors.

There is a gap in the lower tier. In terms of the maximum engagement altitudes for the MSE and the minimum engagement altitudes of THAAD. With the LTAMDS, the Army has an organic LT sensor within IAMD Bns that can allow it to plug that gap effectively allowing for extended range TBM defeat beyond the MSEs current capability (even with the better sensor). This is part of the reason the Army programmed LT-FI to deliver once LTAMDS came online in the late 2020s / early 2030s.
 
There is a gap in the lower tier. In terms of the maximum engagement altitudes for the MSE and the minimum engagement altitudes of THAAD. With the LTAMDS, the Army has an organic LT sensor within IAMD Bns that can allow it to plug that gap effectively allowing for extended range TBM defeat beyond the MSEs current capability (even with the better sensor). This is part of the reason the Army programmed LT-FI to deliver once LTAMDS came online in the late 2020s / early 2030s.
Interdasting.:)

It's been awhile since I was in the PAC-3 program and while I know they don't actually overlap I've never been told it was an actual issue. Been on the THÀAD interceptor program for about 3 years now.
 
It's been awhile since I was in the PAC-3 program and while I know they don't actually overlap I've never been told it was an actual issue. Been on the THÀAD interceptor program for about 3 years now.
Its been a known gap for many many years. It's been informing the case for the LT-FI for a number of years now.
 
Its been a known gap for many many years. It's been informing the case for the LT-FI for a number of years now.
Copy that. I'm familiar with efforts for a next generation LT interceptor but last I heard those efforts were cancelled. All I recall are adding some upgrades and capabilities to the PAC-3 MSE, but I don't know the specifics.
 
PAC-3 MSE already bridges that gap
There's a range/altitude limit above PAC3 and below THAAD (apparently exo-atmospheric only?).

Though I suspect that it'd be SM6 needed to reach that area, not SM2. But if SM2 Active is SM6 minus the initial booster, it'd be cheap to install the base booster stage onto SM2 Actives.



In particular THAAD is endo and exo atmospheric capable (SM-3 is purely exo) so there likely is no gap. If anything I wonder if there might be a gap between SM-6 and SM-3.
IMO there is. SM3 is exo-atmospheric only, so has a pretty tall minimum engagement height. It's looking like GPI will be covering that gap, as GPI appears to be an SM3 stack up through the TSRM but has an endo-atmospheric capable KV sitting on top of the TSRM.
 
How does Stunner compare to PAC-3 MSE? My impression is that it is distinctly inferior.
I wouldn't say that. Certainly not as agile against highly maneuverable threats like HGV's as the Stunner missile has no DACS for extremely rapid attitude adjustments outside of or in the upper atmosphere. Which is why the Navy wants these to help with AShBM & ASh-HGV defense. That plus their production rates are increasing dramatically and only going to grow, which I'm certain is affecting the price in a very good way as well so...
Stunner "as good as PAC-3 or 3MSE", no.
Excellent for around or even under $1 Million apiece though!
The Army is working on its own version of that, well more than one.
One Interceptor for RAM via IFPC, and yet another low cost TBM Interceptor program as well to replace PAC-3 because ~$4 Million each round AIN'T CUTTING IT!!!!
The Stunner was in the running I think, hence the US production via Raytheon partnership. That's a previously canceled program though...
 
This week at the Reagan National Defense Forum, Steve Parker, Boeing Defense CEO:
Steve Parker: "We've also used our own funds this year to supercharge the supply base. So, again, we consider the demand signal coming, lets get out, look at our suppliers, who needs some injection, we're using our own funds to start them off. What we will do is, we'll go from around 650 seekers this year, which is the most we've ever produced in the history of PAC-3 seekers for our customer. We're anticipating going to 2,250 by the end of 2028-2029. So that is a massive increase in capacity. And my example here is, in this case the Boeing company is investing ahead of need."
Mike Stone, Reuters: I think you have just committed news. I'm sorry, did you say you're going from 650 to 2250?
Steve Parker: "That's the plan. If we get the signals from the government, we're ramping up right now to be able to go up to a very very high demand. And we'll see where the government wants us to go, but I'm not waiting for that, that's my message.
Mike Stone, Reuters: "So, the reason they're going to 2,250 is because the Navy wants to put PAC-3 on their ships. This is something that's not written yet--I've written a story about it, of course, which is why I'm telling you all."
View: https://youtu.be/CFxVOI6moRo



Also, from October:
Under the agreements, Boeing will deliver more than 3,000 seekers at rates of up to 750 units per year through 2030.
 
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As expected:

Lockheed Martin, Pentagon strike deal to triple PAC-3 missile production​


The framework agreement establishes the basis for negotiating a seven-year supply contract, subject to Congressional authorization and appropriations, that would increase PAC-3 MSE production to approximately 2,000 missiles per year, up from approximately 600 today. The agreement also provides for strict delivery accountability and allows both the Department of War and Lockheed Martin to share in any enhanced profitability resulting from new equipment and volume efficiencies. This facilitization strategy will be applied to multiple munitions procurement contracts over the next year, pending Congressional appropriations, to replenish our stockpiles, rebuild our military, reestablish deterrence and strengthen and grow our defense industrial base.

The Department of War recognizes that supply chain facilitization is also required to support production capacity increases. As part of the framework agreement, the DoW will work with key suppliers of PAC-3 MSE to deliver seven-year subcontracts to ensure facilitization investments and the production capacity of components also expand to meet the increased demand for all-up-rounds. 
 
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One Interceptor for RAM via IFPC, and yet another low cost TBM Interceptor program as well to replace PAC-3 because ~$4 Million each round AIN'T CUTTING IT!!!!
That would be a really bad move. While magazine size matters, what's in those loaded magazines also matters. It does not matter what volume you can put up if the interceptors you have locked and loaded are sub optimal for the threat. The MSE is right for today's and future threats and has room to grow. A lower cost interceptor solution made a lot of sense when IFPC did not exist and PATRIOT was expected to cover everything. Now that IFPC exists that effort is what will field the sub Million dollar munitions. MSE and LT-FI need to focus on the advanced TBM and HGV threats. Not to mention hypersonic cruise missiles. The 'pressure' for magazine size can be very easily relieved by increasing the MSE production rate (we've gone from sub 500 a few years ago to 600+ now and funding for 2000 or more over the next 7 years) and setting IFPC interceptor production rate in excess of 2,000 per year (combination of AIM-9X and the second interceptor). We are also producing Tamir domestically now and you can also look to produce a hybrid US variant of the missile for added capacity.
 
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Is anyone besides the USMC going to use Tamir?
Not at this time. The OEM did not agree to / was incapable of fully integrating the missile into the Army's open architecture driven Enduring Shield solution utilizing army standard sensors, datalinks and fire control networks. USMC agreed to use Iron-Dome components mixed with USMC systems so was able to be interoperable.
 
As expected:


The framework agreement establishes the basis for negotiating a seven-year supply contract, subject to Congressional authorization and appropriations, that would increase PAC-3 MSE production to approximately 2,000 missiles per year, up from approximately 600 today. The agreement also provides for strict delivery accountability and allows both the Department of War and Lockheed Martin to share in any enhanced profitability resulting from new equipment and volume efficiencies. This facilitization strategy will be applied to multiple munitions procurement contracts over the next year, pending Congressional appropriations, to replenish our stockpiles, rebuild our military, reestablish deterrence and strengthen and grow our defense industrial base.

The Department of War recognizes that supply chain facilitization is also required to support production capacity increases. As part of the framework agreement, the DoW will work with key suppliers of PAC-3 MSE to deliver seven-year subcontracts to ensure facilitization investments and the production capacity of components also expand to meet the increased demand for all-up-rounds. 
Yup. THAAD not far behind.
 
The current draft of the Defense Appropriations Act authorizes 7-year buys for PAC-3 MSE, THAAD, and Tomahawk. Other high-end missiles are authorized for 5 years.
Will they be investing to increase THAAD and Tomahawk production? If so, do we know at which rate they will be produced?
 
Will they be investing to increase THAAD and Tomahawk production? If so, do we know at which rate they will be produced?

THAAD procurement has been particularly pathetic. The MDA has been procuring about 12 interceptors per year in recent years. 2026 saw this increase to 37 per year. Full rate production is facilitized at 96 interceptors per year. Remember that the US is not the only customer.

Lockheed has been asked to look at increasing production to 3-4x the current rate, which would be 288-384 per year. Unclear how many of these would go to the MDA and how many to FMS.

But it's notable that while PAC-3 production and procurement have steadily increased over the past few years, THAAD is only just now getting a look.

Not sure about Tomahawk
 
FY27 PB requests:
  • 2,798 MSE procurement at $4.4M per, up from 357 in FY26, for the Army
  • 405 MSE for the USN
 
Has the USN ever procured MSEs before? This could be the first step towards finally replacing the SM-2.
The USN has openly been working on integrating PAC-3 into Aegis for a couple of years, but this is the first time a procurement request has hit the books.
 
I would have thought the ships would need modifications to use it.
 
They've developed a single-pack canister for the Mk 41 and have integrated PAC-3 with Aegis. As long as the ship has the correct baseline, it's good to go.

Correct Baseline = 10?
Is the missile modified to work with Aegis or the other way around? Or is it just an Aegis software change?
 
Correct Baseline = 10?
I believe so

Is the missile modified to work with Aegis or the other way around? Or is it just an Aegis software change?
AEGIS is updated to work with the missile. The PAC-3 MSE missile is just a regular missile straight off the regular production line. Part of the reason they went with a single-pack canister is to avoid introducing a new variant, which the Navy didn't want to pay for.
 
Range matters in terms of number of shots in case of leakers.

Fair enough, but I think for most ballistic targets there is only one engagement cycle in atmosphere regardless of range. Vertical ascentt rate probably matters more than slant range, and divert capability in the endgame probably matters more than that.

The only advantage I see for SM-2 is against mid altitude targets at range. That of course the fact there’s thousands in inventory already. But if I could fill my cells with ESSM, SM-3/6, and MSE, I’d leave SM-2 at home.
 
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