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North American Rockwell NA-335 fighter project (to USAF FX requirement)

sferrin

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Sundog said:
Foo Fighter said:
Could the NAA submission have survived losing a wing as an F-15 in IAF service did?
It would mainly depend on how the flight control system operated. If the aircraft could still maintain hydraulic pressure after one side of the wing was ripped off, it probably could have, as fighters have a large amount of control power.
Not all do. I'd bet money an F-4 couldn't survive it. Also I think it has to do with the F-15s wide fuselage (lift). The NAA entry didn't really have that. Republic's was even wider than the Eagle's.
 

Sundog

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sferrin said:
Sundog said:
Foo Fighter said:
Could the NAA submission have survived losing a wing as an F-15 in IAF service did?
It would mainly depend on how the flight control system operated. If the aircraft could still maintain hydraulic pressure after one side of the wing was ripped off, it probably could have, as fighters have a large amount of control power.
Not all do. I'd bet money an F-4 couldn't survive it. Also I think it has to do with the F-15s wide fuselage (lift). The NAA entry didn't really have that. Republic's was even wider than the Eagle's.
The lift from the fuselage had little to do with it, as it really doesn't provide that much lift; the only thing lift from the fuselage would affect would be the approach/landing speed and slightly shifting the a.c. a little more toward the c.m. laterally. It was all about control power to keep the aircraft from rolling and that generally comes from the roll power provided by the tails in combination with the one remaining aileron. Yes, I should have said modern fighters, as I think the F-4s tails only operate in pitch, but I don't have any information in that regard.
 

Foo Fighter

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The pilot in an interview did say the landing speed was very high but seeing as the aircraft was recovered and repaired says a lot for the airframe.

The legendary Eagle is also a very robust aircraft, that can survive some serious damages. As shown by a very well-known incident which occurred in 1983, in the skies over Nahal Tzin in the Negev desert, in Israel, during a mock aerial combat between two Israeli Air Force F-15Ds and four A-4Ns, when one of the Eagles, the F-15D #957 nicknamed ‘Markia Shchakim’, 5 killmarks, used for conversion of a new pilot named Zivi Nedivi, collided mid-air with one of the Skyhawks.

As explained in No Wing F-15, an interesting piece written by John Easley, Zivi didn’t immediately realize what had happened: he felt a big jolt and saw a huge fireball caused by the A-4 explosion, followed by radio communications according to those the Skyhawk pilot had successfully ejected.

He realized that the F-15 was badly damaged when the aircraft fell in a very tight spiral after a huge fuel leak from its right wing.

After regaining the control of the aircraft Nedivi was ordered to eject but decided not to bail out since he was confident he could land the plane at the nearest airfield, 10 miles away, even thought the F-15 was flying on vapors: he began to reduce speed but the missing right wing (that the Israeli pilot was still unaware of) caused a new spin.

Then just before ejecting, Nedivi decided to light the afterburners, gaining speed and managing to somehow control the F-15 once again.

Once he reached the air base, he lowered the tail hook, touched down at about 260 knots, which was twice the speed recommended for a standard landing, and managed to stop the plane about 10 meters before it engaged the Safeland Airfield Arrester Barrier.

As told by Easley, it was only after he turned back to shake his instructor’s hand, that Zivi discovered that he had flown and landed without a wing!

After the mishap, McDonnell Douglas, inquired by the Israeli Air Force, affirmed that it was impossible for an F-15 to with one wing only, but once they received the photo of the Eagle flying without one wing, they said that, pilot skills aside, damaged aircraft had been able to return to the base thanks to the lift generated by both its engine intakes and its fuselage.

Nevertheless proving once again its tremendous strength, after two months the Eagle received a new wing and returned to fly, as you can see in the picture below.

https://theaviationist.com/2014/09/15/f-15-lands-with-one-wing/
 

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Sundog

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Foo Fighter said:
The pilot in an interview did say the landing speed was very high but seeing as the aircraft was recovered and repaired says a lot for the airframe.
Undoubtedly. In fact, IIRC, it was this accident that lead aero-engineers and the USAF to start research into flight controls that would automatically adjust their flight control laws and the control system due to combat damage and/or accidents like this so that the pilot could still control the plane normally, e.g., if the stick is centered and the plane is flying level, it remains so and the flight controls automatically compensate. I assume there would be special nomenclature shown in the HUD/Helmet to notify the pilot of the new stall speed as a result of the damage.

I've often wondered if some of this technology was incorporated into the F-22s and F-35s flight control laws.
 

sferrin

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Sundog said:
Foo Fighter said:
The pilot in an interview did say the landing speed was very high but seeing as the aircraft was recovered and repaired says a lot for the airframe.
Undoubtedly. In fact, IIRC, it was this accident that lead aero-engineers and the USAF to start research into flight controls that would automatically adjust their flight control laws and the control system due to combat damage and/or accidents like this so that the pilot could still control the plane normally, e.g., if the stick is centered and the plane is flying level, it remains so and the flight controls automatically compensate. I assume there would be special nomenclature shown in the HUD/Helmet to notify the pilot of the new stall speed as a result of the damage.

I've often wondered if some of this technology was incorporated into the F-22s and F-35s flight control laws.
I would be astonished if it wasn't. Then again there was the technology they tested back in the 80s that helped a pilot make gun shots and that never went anywhere despite being a success.
 

Sundog

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sferrin said:
I would be astonished if it wasn't. Then again there was the technology they tested back in the 80s that helped a pilot make gun shots and that never went anywhere despite being a success.
I don't recall reading about that, do you have any references? Was it similar to the system the Russians supposedly have in the Fulcrum and Flanker where pulling the trigger activates the gun but it doesn't fire until it has a solution that will hit the target?
 

dan_inbox

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Foo Fighter said:
Nevertheless proving once again its tremendous strength, after two months the Eagle received a new wing and returned to fly, as you can see in the picture below.
During the wing loss in 1983, F-15D #957 מרקיע שחקים 'Sky Blazer' was a combat veteran with 4 victories in the 1982 "Peace for Galilee" war.
Not only she returned to flight, but she returned to fight and downed a Syrian MiG-23 on 1985-11-20, earning a 5th victory (shared). You go, girl.

She is now peacefully retired at a museum.
 

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