North American Rockwell NA-335 fighter project (to USAF FX requirement)

aim9xray

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
478
Reaction score
20
To follow up on Overscan's posting of the NAR F-15 sticker "zap" I can offer an insert card and a closeup of the program logo imprinted on one of the special proposal binders. The last images are of a proposal binder (without contents) that was up for sale on eBay several years ago.
 

Attachments

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
58
Nice artwork Craig - thanks! Mark
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
Hmm - why sell the binders? Its whats INSIDE I want to own :) ;D ;D
 

aim9xray

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
478
Reaction score
20
Do you have the clearance, Clarence? B)
 

Demon Lord Razgriz

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
188
Reaction score
0
A bit off topic, but on that logo or the Rockwell F-15, there's a bomber in the background. Any idea as to its identity?
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,466
Reaction score
21
overscan said:
Scott posted the following beautiful images of the NAA/Rockwell F-15 on his blog:
Oh what a beaty !! :-* I think I need a kit of it ....

Deino
 
A

AAAdrone

Guest
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
 

fightingirish

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,103
Reaction score
29
Wonderful pitures, but did I not see the picture 'naa-f-15-b' also in colour somewhere in web? Or is my memory just tricking me out? :eek:


Edit:
At MP.net I found the picture 'naa-f-15-b' in (a blueish) colour used as an avatar.
 

Attachments

shedofdread

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
397
Reaction score
1
What an elegant looking design. I can see the in-flight / ACM rationale for the lower fins but I wonder how tall the U/C would have to have been to enable rotation on take-off? Or did they fold? Weight penalty to provide that directional stability / control at high AoA capability?
 

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
45
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)
 
A

AAAdrone

Guest
I remember something like that too and how the Soviets were surprised that they DIDN'T select the NAA submission despite it being the most dangerous one.
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
sferrin said:
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)

Source is Oleg Samolovich in "Next to Sukhoi", posted by me here a long time ago. He actually says, IIRC, "Northrop" which I assumed was a mistake for "North American" on his part but I believe Northrop were the major subcontractor on the NAA/Rockwell FX so maybe there's something more to it. I'll check my copy of the book.
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,631
Reaction score
16
sferrin said:
AAAdrone said:
Wonderful images! I really am surprised that the US didn't go with NAA's design really.
The Chief engineer at Sukhoi said something to the effect of the North American design being the one they were most worried about. (Though I'll be damned if I can remember where I read that. Might have been American Secret Projects - Fighters)
sferrin I was just thinking how the 'Flanker' looks so much like NAA FX design - especially the wing and forward fuselage profile!!

P.S. thanks for posting these great artist works Overscan

Regards
Pioneer
 

flateric

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
8,727
Reaction score
79

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
58
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

chuck4

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
803
Reaction score
0
It never went up against an Su-27 flown by highly trained pilots.
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

I think the NAA design was higher risk - the first Su-27 version, the T-10, which looks more similar to the NAA design, had multiple issues and abandoned the gothic wing planform entirely. It took a thorough redesign to become a worthy rival to the F-15.


The F-15 had 10 years in service before the Su-27 made it to the first trial units, even though first flights were only 5 years apart.
 

famvburg

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
317
Reaction score
3
Does mock combat against F-22s count? Not good for the F-15s IIRC. It was on The History Channel, so it must be true.


Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Mark Nankivil

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
58
Not relevant - I'm talking real world combat against what's been out there for the past 35 years. Supposedly Indian Flankers did well in Red Flag type exercises but when you look at the F-15, USAF and IDAF, in combat with missiles and guns where you lose, you die (or at least shot down), no losses.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
A

AAAdrone

Guest
famvburg said:
Does mock combat against F-22s count? Not good for the F-15s IIRC. It was on The History Channel, so it must be true.


Mark Nankivil said:
The McDonnell Douglas F-15 is undefeated in air combat. Seems to me the choice made to build that design was verified or at the very least, not a mistake.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
That may be so, but the F-15, in terms of actual combat against foreign fighter aircraft in the dogfight and BVR regimes, is undefeated with over one hundred kills and no losses when considering the experience of both the United States and Israel.

Considering the F-22 is supposed to inherently be superior to the F-15 by definition as it is replacing the F-15 (sort of), then I must ask how your statement is valid as no country out there aside from the US operates the F-22.

Although I don't recall the F-15 ever facing the Su-27 in actual combat, I am willing to bet the Eagle will still win as the US has quite experienced pilots and the F-15 is just that wonderfully engineered.
 

Sundog

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,577
Reaction score
9
Mark Nankivil said:
Not relevant - I'm talking real world combat against what's been out there for the past 35 years. Supposedly Indian Flankers did well in Red Flag type exercises but when you look at the F-15, USAF and IDAF, in combat with missiles and guns where you lose, you die (or at least shot down), no losses.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
In the competition where the Indian Flankers slaughtered the F-15s you have to remember the ROE, as the F-15s weren't allowed to use their long range missiles in the engagement and the Flankers used their IRST's against the Eagles. You have to also consider this happened at a time when the USAF was doing it's best to drum up as much support as possible for the F-22.

Which is even more interesting if you ever saw the video that was online for a short time of the USAF Red Flag F-16 pilots talking about tearing up the Indians in their Su-27 MKI's. Although, the pilots did say the Indians would be much more dangerous once they properly learned to use their TV Flankers.
 

Merv_P

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
115
Reaction score
0
I found another image of the NAA design this morning - hadn't seen this one before.

[removed - scan from American Secret Projects - Fighters and Interceptors 1947 - 1974 - Admin]
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
I believe that is from Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects: Jet Fighters, credited to Craig Kaston who is a member here.


If you don't own this book, please buy it...
 

Merv_P

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
115
Reaction score
0
overscan said:
I believe that is from Tony Buttler's American Secret Projects: Jet Fighters, credited to Craig Kaston who is a member here.


If you don't own this book, please buy it...
It is, and I have... :-[ I hadn't looked at my copy for a while and it hadn't registered. Should you/I delete the image?
 

Orionblamblam

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,221
Reaction score
56
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
A question I'm sure has been raised a bagrillion times: proper sizing of scans from currently-available published works. I'm not opposed to such images; rather than deleting them, why not ensmallerize them to thumbnail size? It's enough to be tempting, too small to be useful. Provides more incentive to buy the book than simple text saying that there is art available in the book.
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
Specifically for Ian Allan publications, the publisher requested no scans at all.

I take your point however, and will think about our guidelines again.
 

Orionblamblam

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,221
Reaction score
56
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
overscan said:
Specifically for Ian Allan publications, the publisher requested no scans at all.
In that case... that's that. I would disagree with them, but their decision is their decision.

For me, I'd be *thrilled* to see thumbnail-sized images from my pubs pop up all over the Intarwebs, so long as there was proper attribution or a link.
 

aim9xray

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
478
Reaction score
20
Thank you Circle-5!

For your enjoyment, the NAR entry:
img140b.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
Cleaned up scan artifacts on this artwork Mark posted near the start of the topic.
 

Attachments

circle-5

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
1,161
Reaction score
14
North American Rockwell factory display model of an early FX design. See wind tunnel model photo of this shape in Reply #4 of this topic.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,451
Reaction score
333
Thank Circle-5,you made my day.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,244
Reaction score
23
Splendid design and model. Thanks a lot for sharing!
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,451
Reaction score
333
Hi,


here is a Model to North American NA-335.
 

Attachments

sferrin

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
45
I'm surprised this one hasn't been posted yet.
 

Attachments

aim9xray

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
478
Reaction score
20
I'm surprised that the original poster/cameramonkey wasn't credited yet.
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
177
Wow - the full scale fibreglass model survived! Would be nice to see it on display :)
 
Top