New Zealand Type 12 Otago Class conversion

[uk 75]

I seem to recall before they bought more Leanders the RNZN considered a serious
conversion of their Type 12 Otago. I am sure I have seen a drawing but cannot remember
where? It would make an interesting add on to my UK frigates stuff.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Re: New Zealand Type 12 Otagi conversion

Otagi sounds Japanese. The RNZN does however have a HMNZS Otago named for the bottom of the world Otago Province.

 

[TinWing]

Re: New Zealand Type 12 Otagi conversion

Otagi sounds Japanese. The RNZN does however have a HMNZS Otago named for the bottom of the world Otago Province.

It's a Maori word without a clear definition, that was borrowed by Europeans for a geographic designation.

 

[Thorvic]

I take it you mean in the early 80s when the RNZN aquired two ex-RN Leanders (F-69 & F-104) rather than upgrading their unmodernised Rothesay class ?. Wikipedia mentions Conways as a source for the modernisation proposal along with a switch to gas Turbines so i'll check that later when i'm at home. I suspect it would be similar to the Helo mode applied to the RN Type 12s with the exception of a revised funnel & intake layout together with a more updated sensor suite.

G

 

[Thorvic]

Checked Conways and it says the RNZN were looking to convert the 2nd ship HMNZS Taranaki to a training/OPV retaining the main dun but switching the steam plant for RR Tyne gas turbines. It also says the Yarrow Type 24 was considered as replacement for their Rothesays before the ex-RN Leanders became available after the 1981 defence review.

G

 

[uk 75]

Geoff thanks. Now I need to track down the right Janes for the drawing.

 

[Thorvic]

Geoff thanks. Now I need to track down the right Janes for the drawing.

Probably in the 1978-82 range given the Leanders became available after the 1981 defence review.

 

[thebig C]

Was this merely under consideration or did it actually enter design phase?

Interestingly, at around the same time (late 1970s/early 1980s) the Tribal Class frigates were being removed from Service by the RN. They were still considered to have some life left in them having served only about 20 years. One of the major shipyards completed a detail study aimed at extending them slightly, combining both funnels and removing some of the rear armaments to accommodate a Lynx demensioned hangar and flightdeck. Along, with upgrades of the weapons/systems etc. Venezula is said to have seriously considered such a purchase before balking on the deal.

Could the RNZN have being eyeing these developments?

C

 

[thebig C]

Hey
Not sure if this is exactly the correct thread in which to post but here goes:
As we know the RNZN replaces its Type 12s with 2 Leander class frigates. In the late 1980s early 1990s the Leander fleet was up for replacement (ANZAC Frigate programme). However, as we know the ANZAC purchase was very controversial and several OPV options were examined notably the RN Castle Class OPVs and Danish Thetis Class OPVs.
However, I have seen references on the net to several other alternatives of which I can't locate drawings or pictures:
Skeandu (aparantly a working 84m OPV)
Yarrow OPV 3 (a 115m! OPV)
VT Mk 18 (a 78-91m OPV concept)
Also there were a couple of light frigate options;
VT Mk18
Hall Russell Light Frigate
Type 122 scaled down frigate

Does anybody have illustrations of the above??
Many thanks

C

 

[RP1]

The Yarrow OPV3 looked a bit like a Type 23. I have a picture but haven't scanned it yet. I Shipbucketed the Hall Russell frigate some time ago and it is described under the Euro Frigates thread:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,890.msg20655.html#msg20655

- RP1

 

[TinWing]

Hey
Not sure if this is exactly the correct thread in which to post but here goes:
As we know the RNZN replaces its Type 12s with 2 Leander class frigates. In the late 1980s early 1990s the Leander fleet was up for replacement (ANZAC Frigate programme). However, as we know the ANZAC purchase was very controversial and several OPV options were examined notably the RN Castle Class OPVs and Danish Thetis Class OPVs.
However, I have seen references on the net to several other alternatives of which I can't locate drawings or pictures:
Skeandu (aparantly a working 84m OPV)
Yarrow OPV 3 (a 115m! OPV)
VT Mk 18 (a 78-91m OPV concept)
Also there were a couple of light frigate options;
VT Mk18
Hall Russell Light Frigate
Type 122 scaled down frigate

Does anybody have illustrations of the above??
Many thanks

C

There's a outboard profile on the internet of the Hall Russell "Skeandu," which apparently was a contender for the OPV3 requirement. Similarly, there's a pic comparing the shortened 119 meter variant of the German Type 122 frigate, possibly marketed by Bremer Vulkan.

 

[TinWing]

The Yarrow OPV3 looked a bit like a Type 23. I have a picture but haven't scanned it yet. I Shipbucketed the Hall Russell frigate some time ago and it is described under the Euro Frigates thread:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,890.msg20655.html#msg20655

- RP1

Is it from the Yarrow brochure that illustrated the shortened and lengthened Type 23 proposals?

The OPV3 requirement died some time around the mid 1980s, and there's some indication that Hall-Russell had been the preferred bidder, and with the slow, unfunded death of the requirement, Hall-Russell eventually ceased operations. Basically, OPV3 seems to have been motivated in part by industrial and employment considerations in Aberdeen.

 

[RP1]

Is it from the Yarrow brochure that illustrated the shortened and lengthened Type 23 proposals?

IIRC it's in there, but I also have a 2-view from an old IDR reporting on RNEE 85.

- RP1

 

[TinWing]

Is it from the Yarrow brochure that illustrated the shortened and lengthened Type 23 proposals?

IIRC it's in there, but I also have a 2-view from an old IDR reporting on RNEE 85.

- RP1

That seems to be about the right period. I have a hard time remembering whether OPV3 died before or after the 1986 privatisation of British Shipbuilders.

I also wonder whether the Yarrow OPV3 contender would have had the same beam as the standard Type 23?

 

[thebig C]

Hey Gang

Thanks for all that info

RP1 Thanks I saw the pic on shipbucket. A very distinctive design. The tall mast is erily similar to the funnel/mast of the Castle Class. I would love if you could scan Yarrow OPV 3 here
Thanks TinWing....can you give me a link for the pic of" Skeandu"? I can't find it anywhere Was it an actual ship or just a design....because the references I have seen to it seem to indicate that it was built?
Any luck locating the VT MK 17/18?
Thanks again
C

 

[Mike Pryce]

A refined VT Mk18 can be seen via http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,890.msg7292.html#msg7292

also more info at: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pulSvOwYmZwC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=vosper+mk+18+opv&source=bl&ots=EDFQF71Oi1&sig=0BhEw04a3ogZ-ZDj_TQnpqmTS64&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZrERT-rJM8mzhAfIrKCwAg&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=vosper%20mk%2018%20opv&f=false


which mentions a VT Mk 19.

 

[thebig C]

Thanks Harrier!
God, I have been trawling around on google...I should have just used the search function on this site
So, it seems what I had previously known as the VT 98m light frigate is in fact the MK18. Can I assume that the MK19 is just an OPV variant on the same hull?
I had seen the reference in that book...hense my request for illustrations. Actually, that book is a cracking read. Some of the earlier portions may contain info relating to the original question about the Type 12s.

C

 

[TomS]

Can someone post the title of the book being disused; Google doesn't seem inclined to display it on this side of the pond. Thanks.

 

[Mike Pryce]

Timing is Everything - The Politics and Processes of New Zealand Defence Acquisition Decision Making by Peter Greener

Published by ANU E Press, 2009

Availabe free at http://epress.anu.edu.au/sdsc/timing/html/frames.php

 

[TomS]

Thanks. Makes for interesting reading.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Interestingly, at around the same time (late 1970s/early 1980s) the Tribal Class frigates were being removed from Service by the RN. They were still considered to have some life left in them having served only about 20 years. One of the major shipyards completed a detail study aimed at extending them slightly, combining both funnels and removing some of the rear armaments to accommodate a Lynx demensioned hangar and flightdeck. Along, with upgrades of the weapons/systems etc. Venezula is said to have seriously considered such a purchase before balking on the deal.

Picture! And it was a Vosper Shiprepairers proposal.

 

[thebig C]

Thanks Abraham!!!!) I have never been able to find an illustration of that proposal!

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Thanks Abraham!!!!) I have never been able to find an illustration of that proposal!

Well it was online all this time... At the HMS Mohawk Association webpage which I stumbled across trying to find out a bit more about the Tribal class frigates.

 

[Flying Sorcerer]

I recall that a late 1979 issue of Navy International ran a full page advert, with art, showing a Tribal as rebuilt.

 

[thebig C]

Thanks Abraham!!!!) I have never been able to find an illustration of that proposal!

Well it was online all this time... At the HMS Mohawk Association webpage which I stumbled across trying to find out a bit more about the Tribal class frigates.

Its funny, I have sound some of the most interesting material accidentally just by trawling the web!

 

[nova10]

Does anyone know the proposed radar and weapon fit of the upgraded Tribals? The picture is a little fuzzy.

 

[Hood]

It looks like a Marconi S810 or S820 series surveillance radar in the foremast radome. The fire-control set could be a ST1802 series.

 

[uk 75]

The design that started this thread was not the Otago but the Taranaki

HMNZS Taranaki - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A drawing of the proposed refurbished ship is in Janes but I cant find.mine.