MX (Peacekeeper) deployment concepts.

[Triton]

Boeing MX missile canister photo dated Sep. 14, 1979 found on ebay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Boeing-Developmental-Center-MX-Missile-Canister-Press-Photo-/200794264633?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item2ec0455439

 

[sferrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSo-MHvAKwA

 

[Grey Havoc]

You may find the following amusing: MX: Milestone II. Final Environmental Impact Statement. Volume 6. Public Comments (Large PDF)

 

[Grey Havoc]

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a956120.pdf

 

[flateric]

some seine-fishing at ePay

 

[Michel Van]

i found another deployment concept on MX

According to the (very limited) documentation I've found, ORCA was going to be canisterized MX missiles tethered to the ocean floor on the continental shelf. No manpower on site, just a canister and a tether. Never implemented because it violated the Seabed Treaty and was vulnerable to attack without corresponding advantages. I've never found anything about deep sea basing, but it wouldn't surprise me - they considered everything else, after all.

Thanks to Asnys from Alternate History forum for the info.

 

[Triton]

Comparisons of 30 Department of Defense ICBM basing modes from a Center for Defense Information publication circa 1981.

Source:
http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/5397/icbm-basing-modes

 

[Michel Van]

here the PDF were the Picture came from that Triton posted

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a956443.pdf

Thanks to Asnys from Alternate History forum for the info.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Via a patent for a "Nuclear blast hardened mobile vehicle" that moin1900 posted over in the 'Midgetman (SICBM) mobile launchers' thread, a Rockwell International patent for an "improved railroad missile garrison system".

 

[moin1900]

Hi everybody
Rail Garrison Car cutaways and picture of test train
http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Rail-Garrison/15968510_q6cCzP#!i=1197826858&k=v6t9Kg4
another Rail Garrison Car cutaway
http://www.flickr.com/photos/x-ray_delta_one/8367000718/in/pool-1109790@N23

 

[Grey Havoc]

An old CRS report from 1981, titled 'Assessing the Options for Preserving ICBM Survivability'.
Includes an overview on AMMX (C-5 and Big Bird). Also mentions some ABM concepts such as LoAD and Porcupine.

 

[Grey Havoc]

In regards to earlier discussions of hovercraft mounted or carried MX missiles on this thread, Orion came across this sometime ago:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9544

 

[Orionblamblam]

In regards to earlier discussions of hovercraft mounted or carried MX missiles on this thread, Orion came across this sometime ago:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9544

I'm *finally* getting around to doing something about that.

 

[bobbymike]

Short paper on superhard silo designs;

http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs02michener.pdf

 

[Orionblamblam]

Tom Clancy's notion for an MX-launching hovercraft:

The Floating Shell Game: Tom Clancy’s 1982 Plan to Fire Nuclear Weapons from a Hovercraft - See more at: http://news.usni.org/2013/10/02/floating-shell-game-tom-clancys-1982-plan-fire-nuclear-weapons-hovercraft#sthash.Jv6gQF9t.dpuf
The Floating Shell Game: Tom Clancy’s 1982 Plan to Fire Nuclear Weapons from a Hovercraft - See more at: http://news.usni.org/2013/10/02/floating-shell-game-tom-clancys-1982-plan-fire-nuclear-weapons-hovercraft#sthash.Jv6gQF9t.dpufThe Floating Shell Game: Tom Clancy’s 1982 Plan to Fire Nuclear Weapons from a Hovercraft



The Floating Shell Game: Tom Clancy’s 1982 Plan to Fire Nuclear Weapons from a Hovercraft - See more at: http://news.usni.org/2013/10/02/floating-shell-game-tom-clancys-1982-plan-fire-nuclear-weapons-hovercraft#sthash.Jv6gQF9t.dpuf

 

[TomS]

Well, that's a delightfully wacky concept.

 

[quellish]

Well, that's a delightfully wacky concept.

Wasn't the only time that hovercraft were considered for this mission, and not the wackiest ICBM deployment or survivability concept by a long shot.

 

[TomS]

True. But I think the drawing is pretty bizarre -- it looks to be a baseline LCAC, which couldn't even carry a bare MX, much less one with realistic environmental protection, erection gear, and launch support hardware. Even the stretched LCAC discussed would be very ahrd when you think about the mass of the supportin equipment needed.

That, and the idea that air cushion cheicles can traverse land obstacles as easily as they can cross waves.

 

[SOC]

Am I the only one that thinks the LCAC transforms into a submarine when the MX is fired?

 

[sferrin]

Am I the only one that thinks the LCAC transforms into a submarine when the MX is fired?

I was thinking more along the lines of one of those cars in the new Superman movie.

 

[sferrin]

 

[quellish]

Am I the only one that thinks the LCAC transforms into a submarine when the MX is fired?

Actually, I think it transforms into a very easy to find target.

 

[sferrin]

Am I the only one that thinks the LCAC transforms into a submarine when the MX is fired?

Actually, I think it transforms into a very easy to find target.

Given that it would be somewhere in the Southwest desert I'm not sure it would matter. It would be long gone by the time any weapon cued from observing the launch would be overhead.

 

[Triton]

Martin Marietta Peacekeeper model with bronze coin found on eBay. Legitimate for collectors?


Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Martin-Marietta-1-50-Scale-Peacekeeper-Desk-Rocket-Model-w-Bronze-Coin-/281588851651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item419000e3c3

Seller's description:

RARE Martin Marietta Rocket Desk Model, 1/50th Scale
Peacekeeper with Bronze Coin
Condition: No damage aside from normal wear.

We sell many used items that have typical day to day wear. We make mention of any significant damage, cracks, break, repairs, chipping, fading, or flaws. If you have any questions regarding the specifics, please, contact us anytime. We are more then happy to assure you of the quality of the product.

* If you would like additional photos, please let us know 24 hours before auction close
* Payment is required within 10 days of auction close
* If the is any problem with any item we sell please let us know immediately! We will respond within 24 hours and will do everything we can to resolve the issue.

Piece is 18 Inches x 8 Inches x 8 Inches.

 

[moin1900]

Silo defense
Gau-8 CIWS and SWARMjet rockets against soviet warheads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KZiW589nI

 

[sferrin]

I knew I'd read somewhere back in the day about using a GAU-8 to protect silos. Was starting to wonder if I'd imagined it. ;D

 

[phil gollin]

.


This is possibly of interest ;


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Untaken-Road-Strategy-Technology-Transforming/dp/1612519733/ref=sr_1_259?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431276894&sr=1-259


.

 

[bobbymike]

Phil - very nice added to wish list. Here is Amazon US

http://www.amazon.com/Untaken-Road-Strategy-Technology-Transforming/dp/1612519733/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431291414&sr=8-1&keywords=the+untaken+road

 

[sferrin]

Hopefully it's more than just a printing of "Echos That Never Were - American Mobile ICBMs 1956 - 1983"

 

[Orionblamblam]

Hopefully it's more than just a printing of "Echos That Never Were - American Mobile ICBMs 1956 - 1983"

Same author, so it's not unlikely. However, I'd bet on improved image quality at the very least

 

[bobbymike]

Hopefully it's more than just a printing of "Echos That Never Were - American Mobile ICBMs 1956 - 1983"

Same author, so it's not unlikely. However, I'd bet on improved image quality at the very least

Thought I recognized the name. Yes maybe if it's fully updated with some great drawings and pictures would be nice addition to my 'nuclear' library.

 

[bobbymike]

sferrin and other SPF members.

Has anyone come across studies (or study) of super hard silo concepts? I thought I had something that talked about 50k psi possible? I've seen snippets but wondering about full studies.

 

[sferrin]

sferrin and other SPF members.

Has anyone come across studies (or study) of super hard silo concepts? I thought I had something that talked about 50k psi possible? I've seen snippets but wondering about full studies.

There was an article in Air Force magazine back in the 80s about them. 50ksi is right. They even had a picture where they'd done a simulation with high explosives. Showed the concrete tube sticking out of the bottom of a crater.

http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/sgs02michener.pdf

From the footnotes in this article it looks like the Air Force Magazine article was January of '84

 

[marauder2048]

They conducted a sub-scale (intended to simulate a 55,000 psi overpressure i.e. a direct hit from a ~ 1 Mt warhead) test on a superhardened silo constructed with Slurry Infiltrated Fiber Concrete (SIFCON). Not the best photo reproduction in the report but plenty of details.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a195351.pdf

* One of the amusing remarks in the referring documents was that fiscal and political pressure were much harder to counter than overpressure.

 

[bobbymike]

sferrin & marauder2048 THANKS much for the links. Why this is my favorite all time site amazing members.

 

[bobbymike]

Why a basing mode wasn't selected.

http://www.lanl.gov/discover/publications/national-security-science/2015-july/_assets/doc/NSS-jul2015-mxfactor.pdf

 

[fightingirish]

Alternate MX Basing Concepts Weighed
Washington—Alternate basing concepts are being considered for the USAF/Martin Marietta MX advanced intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) by high-level Pentagon officials as possible hedges to the linear grid system in the southwestern U. S. now favored by the Carter Administration.
By CLARENCE A. ROBINSON

Source: Aviation Week, October 27th, 1980, pages 19-21
Link (Login!): http://archive.aviationweek.com/issue/19801027/#!&pid=18

 

[fightingirish]

ICBM Survivability Aid Studied
Two concepts that would allow orbital, aerodynamic cruise loiter of Minuteman weighed to counter preemptive strike
By CLARENCE A. ROBINSON

Source: Aviation Week, February 25th, 1980, pages 16-18
Link: http://archive.aviationweek.com/issue/19800225#!&pid=16

 

[Kat Tsun]

The hardest basing options I've seen for the MX were the various super hard silos, I believe 3,500 atm hard silos were actually built, or otherwise considered "certainly achievable", and 7,000 atm were considered "possible"; the Deep Base, where MX missiles would be stationed about half a mile and change underground along with Air Force crewmen, base personnel, and a team of tunnel bore crews, after the bombs fell the crews would dig themselves out egress tubes over several months, eventually break the surface, and fire their missiles; and the Deep Silo/Hard Rock basing, of which LANL's "Pencil Pusher" could resist surface bursts up to 100 megatons, while Boeing's "Sand Silo" could resist 25 megatons, both presumably direct impacts.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Zz8rAAAAYAAJ
https://books.google.com/books?id=VD8rAAAAYAAJ
https://books.google.com/books?id=PJf2jZbIPjcC&pg=PA267&lpg=PA267&dq=super+hard+silo+50,000+psi&source=bl&ots=N2DI3yPUb3&sig=zQ5N2zx2C6zgCxWfWUT1XOE9XNQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiXtdOdjbzRAhXJ7YMKHRpKDDwQ6AEIHjAB#v=onepage&q=super%20hard%20silo%2050%2C000%20psi&f=false

I'm not sure how good these Google book scans are, what's omitted I mean, but they contain enough info for what I talked about.

 

[Triton]

MX Missile 1977 US Air Force; LGM-118A Peacekeeper ICBM Overview from "Aerospace Power"

https://youtu.be/Wgm68bW8jG4