Mitsubishi Shusui and Shusui-kai

blackkite

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windswords

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Blackkite-san,

Thank you for the videos and links to the restoration of the J8M. I have seen many pictures of the J8M you linked to. I have always wondered why the green color of that aircraft is so much lighter compared to other IJN aircraft which are a much darker green. Did those who restored this aircraft paint it the wrong color? If they wanted to show the J8M in the color it would be in combat service it should have been darker. If they wanted to restore it as a test aircraft it should have been yellow-orange like other prototypes. Do you know why that color green was chosen?
 

blackkite

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windswords said:
Blackkite-san,

Thank you for the videos and links to the restoration of the J8M. I have seen many pictures of the J8M you linked to. I have always wondered why the green color of that aircraft is so much lighter compared to other IJN aircraft which are a much darker green. Did those who restored this aircraft paint it the wrong color? If they wanted to show the J8M in the color it would be in combat service it should have been darker. If they wanted to restore it as a test aircraft it should have been yellow-orange like other prototypes. Do you know why that color green was chosen?
Hi! windswords-san. Your question is too hard for me, but I will check Japanese sources. ;)
Anyone please answer this question. Perhaps America knew the color of Shusui at the day. Yellow?
http://planesoffame.org/index.php?page=static-flying
Me163 was a point interceptor, B-17 dodged the point. (two points).
It was very hard to move the base.
Heat resistant run way, dangerous fuel treatment and fuel depo. etc....
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
Shusui-kai and Me263.
Source : All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army/ Internet.
 

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blackkite

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Thanks windswords-san.
Probably, the crew member of B-29 bomber were very surprised, if they received the attack of Shusui.
Some Japanese historian said that the IJN and IJA planned special attack toward B-29 by Shusui.
Manned missile. :eek:
 

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blackkite

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Stargazer2006

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Amazing restoration! Thanks a lot for these pics.
 

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The thing in the cockpit to the right of the pilots seat looks like a tank.
Then this arrangement was copied, too, from the Me 163 to the Shusui.
Due to the dangerousness of the fuel, that was the reason, that some pilots
couldn't be found again after a hard landing with the tanks still not emptied.
The tanks were prone to ruptures and the pilots then simply dissolved. ::)
 

blackkite

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I confirmed by Japanese source that this pilot seat side tank and fuselage tank which located behind the seat were for hydrogen peroxide solution. :eek:
Perhaps Shusui used this pilot seat side tank first.
Source : Shusui, Miki press, ISBN4-89522-392-2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-propellant_rocket
 

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blackkite

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Hi! Shusui first flight pilot Captain Inuzuka.
He lost his life by engine accident at the first and the final flight in 7/7/1945.
Outlet nozzzle location of T-Storff tank was bad to climb 45 degree angle.
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
http://www.walterwerke.co.uk/walter/me163a.htm

T液タンク : T-Stoff (Hydrogen peroxide(Oxidizer) ; H2O2) tank,
C液タンク : C-Storff (Methanol ; CH3OH ; ~57% by Weight, Hydrazine hydrate ; N2H4 · H2O ; ~30% by Weight, Water ; H2O ; ~13% by Weight)tank,
タービン : Turbine, C液ポンプ : C-Storff pump, T液ポンプ : T-Storff pump,

動力装置 : Power plant, 起動電動機 : Starting electric motor, 蒸気発生器 : Steam generator, 燃焼装置 : Combustion equipment, 切替え弁 : Change valve, 起動弁 : Starting valve,
安全弁 : Safety valve, 調圧装置 : Pressure control equipment, 分配弁 : Distribution valve,
均衡弁 : Equilibrium valve, 発停弁 : Priming valve, 調量装置 : Flow control equipment
 

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T-50

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nice pics Blackkite san,and I must say the aircraft is beatifully restorated ,like its newly build!
regarts
T-50
 

blackkite

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T-50 said:
nice pics Blackkite san,and I must say the aircraft is beatifully restorated ,like its newly build!
regarts
T-50
Thanks T-50-san. ;)
 

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windswords

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In regards to Captain Inuzuka's fata test flight, the fuel line did not deliver propellant to the rocket engine resulting in fuel starvation. This was due to the 45 degree climb. The engine cut out too soon and the pilot could not make it back to the airfield to land. By the time the problem was fixed the war was over.
 

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In regards tot he cutaway drawing of the ME-163 the nose contained a generator powered by the small propeller. The J8M1 used that space in the nose for something else but I'm not sure what it was.
 

blackkite

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windswords said:
In regards to Captain Inuzuka's fata test flight, the fuel line did not deliver propellant to the rocket engine resulting in fuel starvation. This was due to the 45 degree climb. The engine cut out too soon and the pilot could not make it back to the airfield to land. By the time the problem was fixed the war was over.
Yes. And Shusui had only half fuel. The first flight was performed in narrow Oppama base Yokosho.
 

Pelzig

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From what I understand, radio equipment was housed in the nose.

windswords said:
In regards tot he cutaway drawing of the ME-163 the nose contained a generator powered by the small propeller. The J8M1 used that space in the nose for something else but I'm not sure what it was.
 

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blackkite

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windswords

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Thanks for the images Blackkite! The ones showing the fuel line modifications were very informative. I can see why the original prototype had the unintended fuel cutoff. The IJA plan looks very close to the modified prototype.
 

Jemiba

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BTW, in Mano Zieglers book "Raketenjäger ! " (rocketfighter), he mentioned that a disruption of the
fuel flow, inevitably followed by an unintended engine cutoff was a problem for the Me 163, too, if
it was subject to negative acceleration (e.g. at the height of a parable shaped flight path.
 

blackkite

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At the time of the first flight, an engine could not be started but re-maintenance was performed.
Thereby, all the people involved felt the uneasy and bad premonition.
The persons concerned also considered the adjournment to the next day about the first flight.
However, Captain Inuzuka asserted first flight execution in forcing, and the first flight was started by 2 time lags.
 

blackkite

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When Captain Inuzuka started the engine, white smoke came out of the nozzle of a rocket engine mistily.
And soon, Shusui raised the roaring sound and began the takeoff run.
Shusui used half length of the runway,took off, dropped the wheel, and started a 45-degree sudden rise.
The persons concerned who watch applauded all at once, seeing it.
However, when reached altitude of 4~500 meters, an unusual sound came out from the engine and the engine stopped.
 

blackkite

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After the engine stop, Captain Inuzuka did not make Shusui go straight on to the sea, but he began the right turn.
Not having gone to the sea was from the idea to help Shusui as anything.
Furthermore, Captain Inuzuka tried to crash-land on the near reclaimed ground instead of the runway in which the persons concerned have gathered.
In spite of having been after extraordinary abandonment of an oxidizer, it is said that he avoided that the oxidizer of survival did damage to the persons concerned.
In order to jump over the building in front of a runway, Captain Inuzuka raised the nose of Shusui, therefore Shusui stalled
After the right-wing tip contacted the watchtower after that, emergency landing serious damage was occured.
It did not look back upon a risk of being based on the oxidizer which remains, but the member of the maintenance party dragged Captain Inuzuka out of SHusui.
Although army surgeons' desperate medical treatment was given to Captain Inuzuka, Captain Inuzuka suffered a basal skull fracture.

There was no how to adopt a measure.
Before emergency landing, Captain Inuzuka tried to re-start engine twice and failed(in horizontal flight?).
 

blackkite

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When the commander inquired to Captain Inuzuka who lies on a bed by dying condition, "Is there nothing needed in anything?", Captain Inuzuka answered "I would like to drink Calpis."
When the commander moistened the lip of the captain to whom the power already drunk by itself is not left behind with the Calpis dipped in absorbent cotton, Captain Inuzuka said, "Oh, it is nice", and he took over the breath calmly after a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calpis
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Source : I.J.N.Interceptor Fiughters. Shigeru Nohara, Kojinsha, 9/29/2004, ISBN4-7698-1206-X

T液(甲液)タンク : T-Stoff (Hydrogen peroxide(Oxidizer) )tank,
C液(乙液)タンク : C-Storff (Methanol ; ~57% by Weight, Hydrazine hydrate ; ~30% by Weight, Water ; ~13% by Weight)tank
タービン : Turbine, C液ポンプ : C-Storff pump, T液ポンプ : T-Storff pump,
動力装置 : Power plant, 起動電動機 : Starting electric motor, 蒸気発生器 : Steam generator, 燃焼装置 : Combustion equipment, 切替え弁 : Change valve, 起動弁 : Starting valve,
安全弁 : Safety valve, 調圧装置 : Pressure control equipment, 分配弁 : Distribution valve,
均衡弁 : Equilibrium valve, 発停弁 : Priming valve, 調量装置 : Flow control equipment

C-Storff also used combustion equipment cooling.
 

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blackkite

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The rocket engine design team of "Shusui" was advancing the design of this surprising diesel engine before "Shusui" project was started (July 1944). This diesel engine was for 4 engine bomber which could reach Saipan B-29 base.(may be alternative engine for Renzan or Ki-91)This diesel engine's specification was as follows.(Named HA-80, Mitsubishi domestic name,D4A1)
  • 2 cycle inverse flat(boxer) H-16 type(16 cylinders, 32 piston)
  • liquid cooling
  • turbo charged
  • 4 crank shaft
  • bore/stroke : 130mm/170mm×2
  • compression ratio : 15.5
  • displacement : 39.9L
  • weight : 1800kg
  • Power : 2150hp or 3000hp/3000m, 2700hp/8000m/2800r.p.m(by internet)
  • Source : “The final weapon Shusui, memory of the designer”, by Ikuo Makino, Kojinsha,2/14/2006, ISBN4-7698-1283-3
 

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robunos

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Hmm... this looks very much like a 'double' Jumo diesel engine, but with a shorter stroke. Was there any transfer of Junkers diesel engine technology from Germany to Japan?

cheers,
Robin.
 
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