Loire and Loire-Nieuport Projects & Prototypes

[blackkite]

Hi! Three side view drawing and wind tunnel test model to solve vibration problem.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Loire_102

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the Loire-100 was a four engined transatlantic flying boat powered by four 630 hp Hispano-
Suiza 9V engines,mounted tandem in two pairs,and Loire-101 was also the same four engined
mounted in leading edge of wings,remained a Projects only.

I think they had the same fuselage,can anyone make a speculative drawings to them ?;

In response to the specification of 1934 for a seaplane intended for the
South Atlantic line, the office of studies Loire, still under the direction of
Yves Jan-Kerguistel, took over the formula of the Loire 70 and studied several
configurations which were distinguished by the arrangement of the engines. The
Loire 100 was a four-engine Hispano-Suiza 9V star of 630 hp, arranged in tandem
two in pairs on the canopy, while the Loire 101 had these same engines
in line on the leading edge. The first project was abandoned because it was
believed that the rear propellers were likely to touch the water if
heavy seas.

nevertheless the formula of the engines in tandem, but widely installed
above the wing, at the top of connecting chimneys which made them
accessible in flight. These engines had become Hispano-Suiza 12 Xbrs-1
of 720 hp. This configuration was called Loire 102. It was therefore a seaplane
hull, high wing monoplane, high

 

[hesham]

From, Конструкции металлических самолетов 1935,

the Loire-11,was under construction.

 

[hesham]

A promizing LN 600 carrier torpedo bomber flew successfully 35 hours before June 1940, a LN 20 fighter was build but never flew owing the choice of both Potez 630 and Bréguet 790 selections. But both were twin engined

No one heard about this,maybe he meant LN 400 ?.

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 1938/21/4,

what was this ?!.

 

[burunduk]

Zero is missing (Loire 102 Bretagne)

 

[VictorXL188]

Wasn't the single-seat fighter the Nieuport 60 and the seaplane the LN-60?

No Stargazer,the Nieuport 60 was a low-wing four engined bomber seaplane project,
of HB.4 designation,and the LN-60 as I know was a single seat fighter,but the site
which I mentioned it make me confuse.

Strange. Here is the Nieuport 60 that I know about:

I have been looking back at this and I think I have the answer. The profile is not of the Nieuport LX but the IX. The extra bit, I think, converting the I to L is an overprint error. For comparison here's a colour profile of the IX and the original posted GA profile which was thought to be the LX.

 

[hesham]

From, From, Revue_des_forces_aériennes 1929,

the Loire-10.

 

[hesham]

By the way,

in my new book,there are more than 70 items for Loire and Loire-Nieuport,
included main designs,variants and projects,can you imagine ?.

 

[PhR]

But since the LN-60 existed, there MUST have been a fifth Loire-Nieuport design before, hence hesham's legitimate question about the LN-50 slot...

This is not necessarily true, as these number alternate between two offices: LN-10 and LN-30 for Saint-Nazaire (ex Loire), LN-20, LN-40 and LN-60 for Issy-le-Moulineaux (ex Nieuport).
LN-60 became CAO-200. I don't have any trace of LN-50.

 

[PhR]

The Loire-Nieuport LN-560 and LN-561 was real designs and not a misprint,and why
they called 560 & 561 instead off 500 & 501,because they was based on the front of
fuselage of Models Loire-Nieuport 160 & 161.

I am skeptical on both explanations. I never heard about neither LN-560/561 nor LN-500/501. Where these projects designation are coming from? Do you have evidences?

 

[hesham]

I am skeptical on both explanations. I never heard about neither LN-560/561 nor LN-500/501. Where these projects designation are coming from? Do you have evidences?

Yes I have,

Les dernières études Loire-Nieuport furent les projets 560 et 561, avions de
bombardement en piqué destinés à recevoir un moteur Hispano-Suiza 12 Z
de 1 200 ch. Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout
développement de ces études.

http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm

 

[PhR]

Yes I have,

Les dernières études Loire-Nieuport furent les projets 560 et 561, avions de
bombardement en piqué destinés à recevoir un moteur Hispano-Suiza 12 Z
de 1 200 ch. Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout
développement de ces études.

http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm

I am still not convinced by the existence of such designation. "Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout développement de ces études", so, at that date, this is impossible to be a "LN" number. The only possibility is CAO, which replaced LN since 1937.
I never found any trace of such designation in the archives of the companies. In addition, on both Loire-Nieuport and SNCAO systems, the sequence starting by "5" was not assigned to Nieuport (specialist for dive bombers) but to Loire.

For me, this description may corresponds to the CAO 810 project.

 

[hesham]

I am still not convinced by the existence of such designation. "Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout développement de ces études", so, at that date, this is impossible to be a "LN" number. The only possibility is CAO, which replaced LN since 1937.
I never found any trace of such designation in the archives of the companies. In addition, on both Loire-Nieuport and SNCAO systems, the sequence starting by "5" was not assigned to Nieuport (specialist for dive bombers) but to Loire.

For me, this description may corresponds to the CAO 810 project.

As text mentioned,I think it was from Loire for developing aircraft based only on fuselages of Nieuport 160 & 161.

 

[Tim52413]

I am still not convinced by the existence of such designation. "Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout développement de ces études", so, at that date, this is impossible to be a "LN" number. The only possibility is CAO, which replaced LN since 1937.
I never found any trace of such designation in the archives of the companies. In addition, on both Loire-Nieuport and SNCAO systems, the sequence starting by "5" was not assigned to Nieuport (specialist for dive bombers) but to Loire.

For me, this description may corresponds to the CAO 810 project.

This photo has a better quality than the one I found.

 

[Tonton-42]

I am still not convinced by the existence of such designation. "Les événements de 1940 stoppèrent définitivement tout développement de ces études", so, at that date, this is impossible to be a "LN" number. The only possibility is CAO, which replaced LN since 1937.
I never found any trace of such designation in the archives of the companies. In addition, on both Loire-Nieuport and SNCAO systems, the sequence starting by "5" was not assigned to Nieuport (specialist for dive bombers) but to Loire.

For me, this description may corresponds to the CAO 810 project.

Project of SNCAO CAO-810 nose-flying bomber (France. 1939).
The CAD-810 nose-dive bomber was to use either the 1200 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y 89 engine or the 1300 hp turbocharged Hispano-Suiza 12Z. It will not have time to be developed.
(source Avions moches, bizarres, ratés, projets abandonnés et aviation insolite.)
The drawing was made by Sosthène-Waroff Billault. Drawing from factory drawings.

 

[Archibald]

Now that's what I call a French Stuka !

 

[Tim52413]

Now that's what I call a French Stuka !

This is "French Stuka"!

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi

 

[PhR]

This photo has a better quality than the one I found.

The main problem is the huge size of the remaining factory drawings of this project. It's already a great luck that they survived. Waroff did a great job.

 

[Tim52413]

The main problem is the huge size of the remaining factory drawings of this project. It's already a great luck that they survived. Waroff did a great job.

It's great that these drawings have been preserved.

 

[pomkit]

I was able to acquire a copy of the drawing from Waroff. I made a four-view drawing that interprets what the SNCAO 810 could have looked like if it had been made at the time. Just a fantasy...

 

[Tim52413]

I was able to acquire a copy of the drawing from Waroff. I made a four-view drawing that interprets what the SNCAO 810 could have looked like if it had been made at the time. Just a fantasy...

You are a hero.

 

[gerard.colombelli]

Une photo du prototype du Loire 250. Le Nieuport 160 a été préféré par Loire-Nieuport.

Loire Nieuport n’a pas préféré la LN160/1, ce sont les services techniques qui l’ont mise à la casse. Alors que tous les avions du programme ne volaient pas à plus de 460km/h en dehors du LN161 (également refusé par SATé), celui-ci a été refusé par ces services car il volait à ... 480Km/h et n’a donc pas atteint la vitesse demandée. Lors de sa construction, il avait des problèmes de stabilité et lorsque la dérive a été élargie, il était cohérent. Tout comme le LN161, ils auraient volé en 40 avec l’évolution aérodynamique et moteur (le LN161 n’ayant que le 12Y de 860ch pour une vitesse de 487km/h alors qu’en 38 le modèle ressortait à 950ch et en 39 celui-ci à 1000ch avant la version 12Y51.) ils auraient dépassé les 540km/h

Loire Nieuport did not prefer the LN160/1; it was the technical services who "scrapped" it. While all the aircraft in the program flew at no more than 460 km/h, except for the LN161 (also rejected by the SATé), it was rejected by these services because it flew at... 480 km/h and therefore did not reach the required speed. When it was built, it had stability problems, and when the tail fin was enlarged, it was coherent. Just like the LN161, they would have flown in 40 with the aerodynamic and engine developments (the LN161 only having the 12Y of 860hp for a speed of 487km/h while in 38 the 950hp model came out and in 39 the 1000hp one before the 12Y51 version.) they would have exceeded 540km/h

Translation added by Admin

 

[Arjen]

@gerard.colombelli I do not use auto-translate on this site, it looks like you do.
Your comment is presented to me in French, which I can read, but many other forum visitors can't.
Please post in English, use machine-translation if English is difficult for you.
Bij voorbaat dank (Dutch for 'thanks in advance' ) - Arjen de Bruine

 

[hesham]

From Onera,what was Loire-70A ?.

 

[Tonton-42]

Hi! Three side view drawing and wind tunnel test model to solve vibration problem.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Loire_102

Maybe off topic since regarding the construction of a model, however the information on this Loire-102 and its structure seems to me very interesting !

https://fighters.forumactif.com/t81592-concours-hydravions-loire-102-bretagne-roll-out

 

[woodville]

From Onera,what was Loire-70A ?.

Perhaps it refers to the civil version of the Loire 70 designated Loire 71.According to Gérard Bousquet in Les Avions et Hydravions Loire, there were plans to put it into service in 1936 but it was never built. He doesn't make any mention of a Loire 70A .