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Loire and Loire-Nieuport Projects & Prototypes

aviadrix

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hesham said:
Thank you Aviadrix,


and a last question for you,that we know SNCAO aircraft from CAO.200 up to COA.1000,
except CAO.400,do you hear about it ?.


Thank you my dear Toura for sharing.
The CAO 400 project was dedicated to the T3 program, for observation of the battle, night training.
The characteristics were: An high cantilever wing, 2 radial motors of 430 hp each, a weight of less than 3800 kg, an armament of 3 riffle caliber machine guns and a crew of 3.
Two projects were chosen instead: The Dewoitine D 720 and the Hanriot NC 530.
 

hesham

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Thank you Aviadrix very very much,


and that means,the SNCAO CAO.400 compete Bloch MB.500,SNCAM HD-720 & HD-721,
SNCAC NC-530,Potez 63/11 and Potez 63/15 in T3 program.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Great my dear Toura,


but that will lead us to ask,was there a designation called LN-50 ?.

I think,I get it;


in that site,they speak about Loire-Nieuport Models 560 and 561 projects,as they were
a dive bomber,intended to receive one 1200 hp Hispano-Suiza 12 Z engine,and
I think it is a misprint and they mean, Loire-Nieuport 500 and 501,or simply Models
50.0 and 50.1.


http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm
 

hesham

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Hi,


Loire 51 was a version of Model 50 with 300 hp Salmson 9 Ab engine,and used
for "Travail Aerien",or Aerial Work .
 

hesham

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Hi,


Loire 52 was the same as Loire 51.


Loire 53 was developed from Loire 50 as two seat trainer,powered by one Hispano
9 Qdr engine.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
hesham said:
I think,I get it;


in that site,they speak about Loire-Nieuport Models 560 and 561 projects,as they were
a dive bomber,intended to receive one 1200 hp Hispano-Suiza 12 Z engine,and
I think it is a misprint and they mean, Loire-Nieuport 500 and 501,or simply Models
50.0 and 50.1.


http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm
Hi Aviadrix,


what is your opinion in those two Loire-Nieuport models ?,is there any misprint
as I explained.
 

aviadrix

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I've never heared anything about LN 560 or 561.

A promizing LN 600 carrier torpedo bomber flew successfully 35 hours before June 1940, a LN 20 fighter was build but never flew owing the choice of both Potez 630 and Bréguet 790 selections. But both were twin engined !

May be, such bomber with one Hispano 12 Z was related to the SO 1020 which was a forerunner of the ill-fated SO 8000 Narval ?
 

hesham

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Thank you Aviadrix very much,


but what about LN-50,do you know it ?.
 

aviadrix

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hesham said:
Thank you Aviadrix very much,


but what about LN-50,do you know it ?.
I'm very sorry, Hesham, I have no information at all about that airplane.
I suggest 2 hypothesis:
i) The duration of the Loire-Nieuport company was quite short, starting in 1933 and ending in January 1937: Less than 4 years. During that time, the two teams had to perfect a lot of new aircrafts (issued from Loire and from Nieuport). The most successfull were the Nieuport 161 and the Loire 130 little flying boat - she ended her operational life during the French Vietnam War. After these aircrafts, they launched true LN aircrafts, as the fast LN 10 float plane and the series of the 40X dive-bombers. May be, they had no time to study more planes under the name Loire-Nieuport... and they shifted all under the SNCAO designation.
ii) As you know certainly, in most cases, the French team archives were destroyed during the German "tsunami".

For example, I'm very interested about the Bloch 1000 and 1010 fighters, projected in 1940. But there is no remains...
 

hesham

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Thank you Aviadrix very much,


and I think the Loire-Nieuport LN-560 and LN-561 are a misprint and they
means LN-500 and LN-501,that's only my suggesting.


For Bloch 1000,I never heard about it before,is it related to Bloch 1010 ?.
 

Stargazer2006

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aviadrix said:
After these aircrafts, they launched true LN aircrafts, as the fast LN 10 float plane and the series of the 40X dive-bombers. May be, they had no time to study more planes under the name Loire-Nieuport... and they shifted all under the SNCAO designation.
But since the LN-60 existed, there MUST have been a fifth Loire-Nieuport design before, hence hesham's legitimate question about the LN-50 slot...
 

hesham

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Hi,


Loire 62 was a two seat trainer flying boat as ET.2 category,powered by
one 230 hp Salmson 9 Ad engine,project only.
 

hesham

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Hi,


Loire 63 was a three seat surveillance aircraft project,powered by one Hispano-Suiza
9 Qdr engine.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,


Loire 52 was the same as Loire 51.


Loire 53 was developed from Loire 50 as two seat trainer,powered by one Hispano
9 Qdr engine.

Loire 51 was a version of 50,powered by one Salmson 9 Nb engine.
Loire 52 was also a version of 50,powered by one 380 hp Jupiter 9 Aa engine.
 

c460

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Stargazer2006 said:
aviadrix said:
After these aircrafts, they launched true LN aircrafts, as the fast LN 10 float plane and the series of the 40X dive-bombers. May be, they had no time to study more planes under the name Loire-Nieuport... and they shifted all under the SNCAO designation.
But since the LN-60 existed, there MUST have been a fifth Loire-Nieuport design before, hence hesham's legitimate question about the LN-50 slot...
Not necessarily: the even digits were attributed to the former Nieuport design study at Issy, and the odd digits to the former Loire at Saint-Nazaire. (Source: Nieuport 1909-1950 by Rosenthal et al.) It may be that the Issy numbers went up to LN.60 whereas the Saint-Nazaire team didn't go that far.
 

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Skyblazer said:
The most elusive LN-30/LN-301 project, an enlarged derivative of the Loire 102 (original sources AFM No. 01):

From the same source,


the Loire LN-31 was redesigned as LN-301.
 

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robunos

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Stop the Pigeon! Stop the Pigeon! ;D

cheers,
Robin.
 

hesham

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From l'Aeronautique 1932,


here is a 3-view to Loire-11.
 

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toura

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Hi Hesham.
and one other from "aviation magazine"
 

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hesham

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Excellent my dear Toura,


and that led to discover anther two contenders in 1930 Colonial competition;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6513.msg161781.html#msg161781
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Loire-100 was a four engined transatlantic flying boat powered by four 630 hp Hispano-
Suiza 9V engines,mounted tandem in two pairs,and Loire-101 was also the same four engined
mounted in leading edge of wings,remained a Projects only.
 
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hesham

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Hi,


the Loire-135 was a project for coastal patrol flying boat,derivative of Loire-130.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
in that site,they speak about Loire-Nieuport Models 560 and 561 projects,as they were
a dive bomber,intended to receive one 1200 hp Hispano-Suiza 12 Z engine,and
I think it is a misprint and they mean, Loire-Nieuport 500 and 501,or simply Models
50.0 and 50.1.

http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm

The Loire-Nieuport LN-560 and LN-561 was real designs and not a misprint,and why
they called 560 & 561 instead off 500 & 501,because they was based on the front of
fuselage of Models Loire-Nieuport 160 & 161.
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Loire-102M was a military project version of Loire-102,intended for 1935 program
for military transport flying boat or seaplane,crew of 8,and fitted with 4 defensive machine-
guns and 800 kg bombs.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
the Loire-102M was a military project version of Loire-102,intended for 1935 program
for military transport flying boat or seaplane,crew of 8,and fitted with 4 defensive machine-
guns and 800 kg bombs.

The source is TU magazine issue 247,also this info;


Loire-? was transport version of Loire-102 flying boat,with 26 to 38 passenger on Mediterranean
sea,remained a project only,(maybe Loire-110 ???,only my opinion)
 

hesham

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A new Info;


Loire-Nieuport LN-30 (first allocated) was a six-engined transatlantic seaplane project,
derivative of Loire-102,powered by six 860 hp engines and had two tail fins.


TU magazine issue 248
 

hesham

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Hi,

in 1931,Loire suggested a development for Loire-50 with retractable landing gear,also an
improvement to Loire-60,to be powered by three 95 hp Renault 4 Pb engines.
 

Arjen

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Loire 60
--------------
Span: 19.07 m
Length: 10.80 m
Height: 3.30 m
Crew: 4
Max speed: 165 km/h
Ceiling: 3,000 m
Three inverted inline Renault 4Pb engines, 95 hp each.
1 built.
First image from Philippe Ricco's collection and data found here:
https://www.aviafrance.com/loire-60-aviation-france-1859.htm
Further information and second image found here:
http://fandavion.free.fr/loire_constructeur.htm
Cabin mailplane.
First flight June 11, 1932, piloted by a Mr Nadot. Suffered from strong engine vibrations. Found to be underpowered after testing at Saint-Raphaël in December of that year. Incapable of taking off in amphibious configuration.
Followed by single-engine Loire 601 - 230 hp Salmson (pusher?). This was converted to Loire 603 with a Salmson driving a tractor propellor, which was used as a testbed in the development of the Loire 70.

Mentioned earlier in reply #13 of this thread: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8654.msg178316.html#msg178316
 

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hesham

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My dear Arjen,

some of those ideas actually built,and the other was not.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Loire 40 :single seat lightweight fighter with 300 hp Gnome-Rhone Titan II engine.

Loire 41 : ,, ,, ,, ,, with 500 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Mc engine.

Loire 42 : ,, ,, ,, ,, with 420 hp Gnome-Rhone 9 Asb Jupiter VII engine.
From Le Fana 27.
 

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blackkite

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Hi! More LN-160 and LN-161.

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fww2/ni161/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loire-Nieuport_161
"When the first Nieuport 161 was completed, its intended engine, the 800 hp (597 kW) Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs, was not ready so it flew with a 600 hp (447 kW) Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs driving a two-blade, fixed-pitch propeller in October 1935. This form had the designation Nieuport 160; in March 1936 it flew as the 161 with its Ycrs engine and three-blade, variable-pitch propeller."

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft26499.htm

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/ni161.html
 

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blackkite

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Hi! Loire 43,45 and 46.
Loire 43.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/loire43.html
"French fighter Loire 43 took off on October 17, 1932. It was an all-metal construction with a power sheathing and a high-seated gull-type wing. The aircraft was equipped with a 12-cylinder V-engine Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs with a capacity of 690 hp. Was produced in a single copy. Further refinement of the aircraft led to the creation of a Loire 46 fighter.
Wing span : 12.00m , Length : 7.93m , Height : 4. 20m, Wing area : 20.60m2
Weight : empty 1,245kg, normal take-off 1,725kg
engine's type : 1 PD Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs , Power : 1 x 690hp
Maximum speed : 360 km / h, Cruising speed : 268km / h, Practical range : 600km, Climb rate : 650m / min
Crew : 1, Armament : two 7.7-mm Vickers machine gun"

Loire 45.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/loire45.html
"In 1933 the development of the Loire 45.01 was completed. It was distinguished by the presence of the engine Gnome-Rhone 14Kds with a power of 740 hp. and some design improvements. Later, equipped with a star-shaped Gnome-Rhone 14Kfs power of 900 hp, Loire 45.01 showed a speed of 370 km / h. Subsequent changes included raising the root of the wing and a slight lowering of the engine for better visibility.
Wing span : 11.96m, Length : 7.48m, Height : 4.20m, Wing area : 20.60m2
Weight : empty aircraft 1,340kg, normal take-off 1,785kg
engine's type : 1 PD Gnome-Rhone 14Kcs, Power : 1 x 880hp
Maximum speed : 370km / h, Cruising speed : 277km / h
Climb rate : 788m / min, Practical ceiling : 10800m
Crew : 1, Armament : two 20-mm cannons"

Loire 46.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loire_46
 

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