Kashmir Conflict 2025 - News ONLY

ComradeVortex said:
-A spokesman for Pakistani military press department ISPR told Reuters: "So far, I can confirm that five Indian aircraft, including three Rafale, one Su-30, one MiG-29 have been shot. And one drone also shot down."-
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The high proportion of manned crafts and lack of unmanned looks so... ancient.
 
Galaxy said:
Either Pakistan has world class aircraft and SAMs or Indians are using Rafales as dive bombers
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Pakistan does have world class aircraft (and since Arab-israeli wars is consistently considered to be the best air force of Muslim world).
For the indian side, there's evidence of scalps, brahmos, and aasms. No dive bombers.
 
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But was not that clear in my post or is today a free day for Insinuation and disaparraging comments?
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Fault is on you. On this forum you started as strongly anti-A380, then after Airbus stopped its production you shifted to anti- Rafale and, more generally, anti-European aerospace by large.

Sometimes I really wonder whether you are some kind of agent paid by God-know-who. /S

Or maybe it is just a case of Hanlon razor.
 
3 Rafale français ont été abattu dans la nuit, la France s’inquiète pour ces futures commandes et de l’escalade entre les deux pays
 
This picture seems to show a doublet of M88 emerging from a post crash fire in India (look at the canted turbofan inlets that characterize M88) :

90


Source AP
 
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TomcatViP said:
15E?! Why would Pakistan have folding fins missiles?
(the least we can guess is that it was a radar guided missile)
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15E is just the export variant. It doesn’t necessarily have folded fins. The latest variant of it displayed at Zhuhai just happened to have folded fins.
 
siegecrossbow said:
Indeed. Pretty momentous occasion for China produced fighter aircraft. If confirmed this will be the first downing of a Western fighter ac by an Eastern one since the F-18 downing during the first Gulf War.
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To be fair, there's that contested recent F-16, shoot down by... somebody?
 
TomcatViP said:
Well what links this to Chinese built fighter victory? Does not PAF flies also Mirage and F-16?
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Rumors (from PAF sources) and evidence (PL-15E parts found in India) and sheer distance involved (90KM plus penetration) seems to indicate that the kill is probably by Chinese asset.

But if Pakistan’s elderly mirage scored a kill on a Rafale… that would be an even worse look…
 
siegecrossbow said:
Rumors (from PAF sources) and evidence (PL-15E parts found in India) and sheer distance involved (90KM plus penetration) seems to indicate that the kill is probably by Chinese asset.

But if Pakistan’s elderly mirage scored a kill on a Rafale… that would be an even worse look…
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Could also be HQ-9P, its basically the only long range air defense unit PK has. It is an old model based on the legacy HQ-9 tho
 
siegecrossbow said:
Indeed. Pretty momentous occasion for China produced fighter aircraft. If confirmed this will be the first downing of a Western fighter ac by an Eastern one since the F-18 downing during the first Gulf War.
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Yes, significant if confirmed. Also says a lot on the poor state of Indian intel and tactics against a neighbour they have been in conflict with for decades. They should have had more than enough time to have good ideas of the capabilities of latest Pakistani equipments, and adapt tactics accordingly, yet...
Tbh that picture posted by Deino strongly resemble an M88 rear part.
As for the Mica and launcher parts, that could also come from a M2000, as these are Mica capable.

That said, what amuses me the most here, is the excitement of some, almost ready to open a champagne bottle... seeing what they want to see like :
90 - copie.jpg
 
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Ainen said:
Pakistan does have world class aircraft (and since Arab-israeli wars is consistently considered to be the best air force of Muslim world).
For the indian side, there's evidence of scalps, brahmos, and aasms. No dive bombers.
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There is also evidence of India flying relic Mig-21 into Pakistani airspace, friendly fire incidents, horrible maintenance track record and this latest fiasco. The Indian bravado got the best of it, it easily could have hit Pakistani territory using loitering munitions and avoided this embarrassment.
 
How many types of strike-target integrated drones are there in India? Can someone summarize it? Thank you!
 
galgot said:
Yes, significant if confirmed. Also says a lot on the poor state of Indian intel and tactics against a neighbour they have been in conflict with for decades. They should have had more than enough time to have good ideas of the capabilities of latest Pakistani equipments, and adapt tactics accordingly, yet...
Tbh that picture posted by Deino strongly resemble an M88 rear part.
As for the missile parts, that could also come from a M2000, as these are Mica capable.

That said, what amuses me the most here, is the excitement of some, almost ready to open a champagne bottle... seeing what they want to see like :
View attachment 769070
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Pakistan has so far claimed to have shot down a Rafale, a Mirage 2000, an Su-30, and a Mig-29.

I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claim regarding the Mig-29, but I vaguely remember seeing large twin vertical stabilizers (i.e. Su-30) at a crash site, which could have been from another incident.

In my opinion, the Rafale and Mirage 2000 claims are about 85% and 65% likely to be true, respectively.

In other news: Another PL15E with a different serial number?

GqWEBAxWYAAXAVP
GqWEBEtXEAATorm
 
snne said:
Pakistan has so far claimed to have shot down a Rafale, a Mirage 2000, an Su-30, and a Mig-29.

I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claim regarding the Mig-29, but I vaguely remember seeing large twin vertical stabilizers (i.e. Su-30) at a crash site, which could have been from another incident.

In my opinion, the Rafale and Mirage 2000 claims are about 85% and 65% likely to be true, respectively.

In other news: Another PL15E with a different serial number?

GqWEBAxWYAAXAVP
GqWEBEtXEAATorm
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How many did they fire… sheesh
 
Geo said:
The Rafale is certainly not a bad fighter among aircraft designed in the 1980s. But given all the proclaimed superlatives and whipped marketing, everything now looks extremely embarrassing. A big blow to the reputation.
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It tells us more about the user than the equipment.
For the symbolic strikes conducted by India, it lost a significant amount of equipment. This is by all means a major victory for Pakistan.
 
snne said:
Pakistan has so far claimed to have shot down a Rafale, a Mirage 2000, an Su-30, and a Mig-29.

I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claim regarding the Mig-29, but I vaguely remember seeing large twin vertical stabilizers (i.e. Su-30) at a crash site, which could have been from another incident.

In my opinion, the Rafale and Mirage 2000 claims are about 85% and 65% likely to be true, respectively.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1919986375757107443
View: https://x.com/someplaosint/status/1919986375757107443
 
Tomboy said:
Well, we are seeing real aircraft wrecks here since as far as I know M88 engines don't grow from farmlands. It could either mean that MB is keeping tallies a secret as of now for losses in this conflict due to obvious OPSEC reasons or the more grim and unfortunate assumption that the pilots did not survive. I would lean towards the former
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The future will tell, perhaps very quickly, whether Rafales have been shot down and how many.

But trusting Martin Baker's count, when there are accidents and other conflicts around the world (in a few minutes, I have already found one sure and one possible out of the three missing) does not seem to me to be proof.
 
snne said:
Pakistan has so far claimed to have shot down a Rafale, a Mirage 2000, an Su-30, and a Mig-29.

I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claim regarding the Mig-29, but I vaguely remember seeing large twin vertical stabilizers (i.e. Su-30) at a crash site, which could have been from another incident.

In my opinion, the Rafale and Mirage 2000 claims are about 85% and 65% likely to be true, respectively.

In other news: Another PL15E with a different serial number?

GqWEBAxWYAAXAVP
GqWEBEtXEAATorm
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yes, well, if one listen to the Pakistanis, the've also won every wars they fought against India, so I wouldn't be surprised if they claimed 10 Rafales and an imperial cruiser downed.

What matters the most are clear pictures. What each side says is really rubbish.
 
snne said:
I haven't seen any evidence supporting the claim regarding the Mig-29, but I vaguely remember seeing large twin vertical stabilizers (i.e. Su-30) at a crash site, which could have been from another incident.
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Check above, those on that photo aren't large and aren't stabilizers(and shape doesn't match in any case). Probably SCALP.
siegecrossbow said:
It’s the not price of the weapon, it’s how you use it…
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Price, too.
India can't afford to lose aircrafts at this pricepoint at this tempo. No one can.
Tbh this engagement raises significant questions on how much all the elaborate jammers really justify themselves. Because it's all the additional equipment that raises the price of a fighter by an order of magnitude.
If Rafale and JF-17 do the same job, and 200 additional mil of Rafale price don't meaningfully help it survive - what was the payment for?
 
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