Kashmir Conflict 2025 - News ONLY

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What we know about India's strike on Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir

India launched strikes in the early hours of Wednesday - two weeks after a deadly militant attack.
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Fear and uncertainty after strikes: BBC in Muzaffarabad

An Indian air strike damaged a mosque and some houses Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.
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India strikes - how will Pakistan respond? Four key questions

Experts from India and Pakistan weigh in on what’s next - and how this clash differs from past conflicts.
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www.telegraph.co.uk

Did Pakistan really shoot down five Indian fighter jets?

After air strikes in early hours of Wednesday, South Asian rivals differ on accounts of subsequent events
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Pakistan’s most powerful man holds the key to war with India

Gen Syed Asim Munir said his country will ‘not leave our Kashmiri brethren’ ahead of Indian strikes across Pakistan
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SUPER=BUG said:
In addition to aircraft performance, the pilot's skill is also a key point.
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Indian pilots are quite well trained (plus for all their mutual hate, IAF and PAF are sister services). For all their horrible attrition rate, their flight hours are very high.

This is a case where Indian side did something very wrong not on personal level, but somewhere higher.

My current 5 cents is that indians were caught on egress with their huge layered strike package (half french airforce!).
 
Ainen said:
Indian pilots are quite well trained (plus for all their mutual hate, IAF and PAF are sister services).

This is a case where Indian side did something very wrong not on personal level, but somewhere higher.

My current 5 cents is that indians were caught on egress with their huge layered strike package (half french airforce!).
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Probably operating too many different types didn’t help… MKI + M2K + MiG-29 + Rafale+ maybe Jaguar? How the hell so you coordinate properly. And I hope their maintenance crew is paid well…
 
Ainen said:
Indian pilots are quite well trained (plus for all their mutual hate, IAF and PAF are sister services). For all their horrible attrition rate, their flight hours are very high.

This is a case where Indian side did something very wrong not on personal level, but somewhere higher.

My current 5 cents is that indians were caught on egress with their huge layered strike package (half french airforce!).
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There is some truth in what you say, but I have reservations, sometimes a long time does not explain anything, it will hide some fatal problems, and then again, India does have to pay more sweat in the logistics of fighter jets.
 
Archibald said:
How do we know ? Do you want to take a bet ? With all the disinformation plus the usual A.I crap on top of it ?
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The engine wrecked already, beyond a shadow of a doubt, confirm a Rafale was knocked out and something like 90KM inside India from what some claimed. This is shocking, given the Rafale has quite good EW systems, RCS and long range weapons such as Meteors.

The question is what did Pakistan use? Did they cross the border and fire at Rafales? If so that is equally embarrassing considering they evaded Indian air defenses and aircraft. Did they use PL-15s? Did they use SAMs? Did they use EW?

Aircraft getting shot down is nothing unusual but considering India attacked first, has long range SAMs, AWACs, state of the art aircraft, ground based radars, long rang missiles and received training from the French I would say India shit the bed. India messed up on an operational level, on a tactical level, on every level imaginable and this is not the first time. Not a fan of Pakistan but they clearly have better cohesion, planning, tactics, ect. PAF aircraft should have not had any chance of coming within the LOC but I guess Pakistani intelligence identified gaps in Indian radars, SAMs, ect.

Indian sources claim an SU-30MKI evaded 8 PL-15 missiles, I heard similar stories from 2019. Nothing is known for certain especially how many aircraft participated from each side and how many missiles were fired but it seems the SU-30MKI is still a more proven and capable platform than the Rafale. I for certain thought the SPECRA would have easily overcome anything thrown at it but apparently not. The French are great at marketing it turns out.
 
Galaxy said:
The engine wrecked already, beyond a shadow of a doubt, confirm a Rafale was knocked out and something like 90KM inside India from what some claimed. This is shocking, given the Rafale has quite good EW systems, RCS and long range weapons such as Meteors.

The question is what did Pakistan use? Did they cross the border and fire at Rafales? If so that is equally embarrassing considering they evaded Indian air defenses and aircraft. Did they use PL-15s? Did they use SAMs? Did they use EW?

Aircraft getting shot down is nothing unusual but considering India attacked first, has long range SAMs, AWACs, state of the art aircraft, ground based radars, long rang missiles and received training from the French I would say India shit the bed. India messed up on an operational level, on a tactical level, on every level imaginable and this is not the first time. Not a fan of Pakistan but they clearly have better cohesion, planning, tactics, ect. PAF aircraft should have not had any chance of coming within the LOC but I guess Pakistani intelligence identified gaps in Indian radars, SAMs, ect.

Indian sources claim an SU-30MKI evaded 8 PL-15 missiles, I heard similar stories from 2019. Nothing is known for certain especially how many aircraft participated from each side and how many missiles were fired but it seems the SU-30MKI is still a more proven and capable platform than the Rafale. I for certain thought the SPECRA would have easily overcome anything thrown at it but apparently not. The French are great at marketing it turns out.
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Apparently the Deputy PM confirmed that take downs comes from J-10CEs deployed

"According to Ishaq Dar, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Pakistan, 5 Indian jets (3x Rafale, 1x Su-30, 1x Mirage) were downed and they were all downed by J-10C

Timestamp 7:00"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpftq1NwcKs


Cannot confirm because I don't speak Urdu hopefully someone here who actually speaks the language might confirm for us
 
siegecrossbow said:
Wasn’t struck by falling jet… the guy went and gawked at the flaming wreckage out of curiosity and got nailed by secondary explosion.
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If describing the incident as ”onlookers gathering around a burning object that had fallen from the sky, only to have one person killed and nine injured in its explosion” makes it sound less tragic, then you’re absolutely right.
 
Archibald said:
SPECTRA
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That’s marketing for you. The Russians also studied captured Leopards, apparently the engines overheat and lose 50% power, the gun does not have that great of range, ect. Reminds me of fancy “luxury” European cars that fall apart after a few years.

Or maybe I’m just not giving enough credit to Chinese technology. We already know Pakistan has great operating planning…I give them that.
 
Galaxy said:
Regardless apparently it sucks.
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We don't have full context. This conclusion is, mildly speaking, premature.
There are indications Indians used Rafales a bit too...ambitiously for a non-LO platform, and i'd personally say deployed too much aircraft, so the whole package became unwieldy, stretched and vulnerable at egress.

But this is indeed a serious call for those very expensive, very elaborate modern ew oversystems (SPECTRA, AREXIS, HIMALAYAS).
They cost as much as another aircraft; are they as good value as one?
 
yeetmahboi said:
Are you sure it's expensive because it's too elaborate for little gain or if it's just breaking even for paying overvalued devs and their welfare?
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Well, both. Western dev and manufacturing is expensive, but all aspects of it are expensive.
Ultimately, all those numerous AESA arrays, rough and precision receivers in different bands, painful EMC and deconfliction trial campaigns cost money.
 
There are indications Indians used Rafales a bit too...ambitiously for a non-LO platform, and i'd personally say deployed too much aircraft, so the whole package became unwieldy, stretched and vulnerable at egress.
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Interesting. Makes sense.
 
It's not that I'm defending China. However, most users on this website are overly contemptuous of Chinese technology.
Galaxy said:
That’s marketing for you. The Russians also studied captured Leopards, apparently the engines overheat and lose 50% power, the gun does not have that great of range, ect. Reminds me of fancy “luxury” European cars that fall apart after a few years.

Or maybe I’m just not giving enough credit to Chinese technology. We already know Pakistan has great operating planning…I give them that.
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Archibald said:
Interesting.
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We haven't seen meteors, we haven't seen KH-31s yet. Ok, meteors are few and rare(PL-15s were found already however?), but russian ARMs back in feb 2022 appeared in numbers immediately. Also, sheer numbers(PAF claim is >70 indian a/c, most of which clearly tactical).

Unless those emerge, i suspect they tried to do a clean, white gloves strike deep into Pakistan (huge escalation over 2019!), relying on EW basically (Rafales, plus Indian Su-30s carry SAP-514 escort jammers), without triggering a war.

PAF was given a huge advantage in initiative in this case, which they promptly proceeded to realise with deadly efficiency.
 
snne said:
The jury is still out, I can be very wrong. But this is what I can gather so far. IAF losses as below:

1 Mirage 2000 in J&K
1 (possible) Su-30MKI in J&K
1 (possible) Rafale in Punjab pic.twitter.com/oY4j55Xzx8— SomePLAOSINT (@someplaosint) May 7, 2025
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anyone here got an estimate what India paid for these aircrafts?
I heard it's really a shitty week for military aircrafts.
 
That's now the first and so far only big blow to the Dassault Rafale with regards to PR, right?
 
EmoBirb said:
That's now the first and so far only big blow to the Dassault Rafale with regards to PR, right?
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Considering the Air Defense environment in Pakistan I'd say professionally no but public sadly the Rafale is looking like it more has a friend in the F-35 as far as PR go's though i don't think it will effect export orders to much it's still a very capable fighter
 
Springtime said:
Considering the Air Defense environment in Pakistan I'd say professionally no but public sadly the Rafale is looking like it more has a friend in the F-35 as far as PR go's though i don't think it will effect export orders to much it's still a very capable fighter
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I doubt it will play a part in exports too, but more so because exports are a political thing, not a rational one.

Because rationally speaking, an aircraft that costs like 130 Million € and can't even conduct a cross border raid (public perception) despite a previously highly praised and hyped up ECM suite isn't a good look. Especially when you can get an actual stealth fighter with a very strong ECM suite with the F-35 for less money. Reminds me of old comments on the internet I once read where people argued the Rafales ECM suite is superior to stealth, well now we know 110% that it isn't (which was clear to anyone seriously interested in military aviation beforehand, tbh).

And while I am aware that the loss of an aircraft is dependent on many factors, not all related to the aircraft itself, I doubt the wider public has so much nuance. Just remember how many people think the F-35 is an accident prone trouble birb, or how public perception sees the incredibly vulnerable A-10 as the pinnacle of strike and attack aviation.
 
Ainen said:
We haven't seen meteors, we haven't seen KH-31s yet. Ok, meteors are few and rare(PL-15s were found already however?), but russian ARMs back in feb 2022 appeared in numbers immediately. Also, sheer numbers(PAF claim is >70 indian a/c, most of which clearly tactical).

Unless those emerge, i suspect they tried to do a clean, white gloves strike deep into Pakistan (huge escalation over 2019!), relying on EW basically (Rafales, plus Indian Su-30s carry SAP-514 escort jammers), without triggering a war.

PAF was given a huge advantage in initiative in this case, which they promptly proceeded to realise with deadly efficiency.
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Why would India not use Meteors? The PAF is no joke. As usual the IAF got arrogant…sorry they did this in 2019 with a MiG-21 and payed.

In my opinion, India is too predictable. Any time there is a some escalation India always attacks at predictable times. Pakistan just waits and monitors the situation on high alert . Pakistan is not stupid, they have ground radars, AWACs and likely informants and spies that feed information about IAF aircraft taking off. Seems like PAF tactics revolve around flying at safe distances and scrambling aircraft any time IAF attacks, the Pakistanis have lots SAMs and rely on them for a safety cushion.
I’m not Indian nor am i Pakistani or Chinese or give a crap about either of the two but to me the IAF looked like a cocky boxer that came out swinging and using everything they had, the PAF, on the other hand, looked like a defensive boxer that let the other opponent get tired, make mistakes and then when the opportunity came exploited an opening and knocked the cocky guy out.

Losing at least two or three aircraft, possibly more including brand new state of the art aircraft, ones so deep in friendly territory is just bad no matter how you look at it. The IAF needs to do some serious soul searching, at minimum people need to be relived of command and operational doctrine be rewritten. This is like 4x more of a failure than 2019, you would think they learned something but I guess not.
 
Springtime said:
Considering the Air Defense environment in Pakistan I'd say professionally no but public sadly the Rafale is looking like it more has a friend in the F-35 as far as PR go's though i don't think it will effect export orders to much it's still a very capable fighter
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I agree, the Rafale is a capable aircraft.. of its generation.
but much has to be said about how much more capable air defenses and missiles have become and where VLO designs have a stronger advantage in working in contested airspace.
 
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