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Japanese Gliders and Assault Gliders

borovik

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1) -Kayaba Ku. 2
2) -Nihon Kagata Ku.II
from "Air pictorial"

Can someone help me, the question as follows:
known whether the experience of combat application (designing) Japanese WW2 gliders as (dive bomber / attack, fighter).? For example: BV-40-Germania.
I do not mean rocket / ram-jet powered Ohka, Baika.
 

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gerhard

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Hi Guys

Great, thanks for the assistance. What were the Japanese designations for these German gliders?

Cheers
Gerhard
 

Pelzig

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So far as my information goes, the Japanese did not make efforts to create a purpose built, unpowered glider along the lines of the German BV-40 or the late war German modifications of gliders to house MP-40 submachineguns for attack purposes.

borovik said:
1) -Kayaba Ku. 2
2) -Nihon Kagata Ku.II
from "Air pictorial"

Can someone help me, the question as follows:
known whether the experience of combat application (designing) Japanese WW2 gliders as (dive bomber / attack, fighter).? For example: BV-40-Germania.
I do not mean rocket / ram-jet powered Ohka, Baika.
 

borovik

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Thank you Ed, for a qualified answer.
Of the projects, like the use of gliders I know:
-four projects in the Soviet Union, some in Germany, at least one in Italy, even one in the U.S. (designed by Lester P. Barlow)
A negative result in Japan, too, result))
 

lark

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In 'Japanese Special Attack Aircraft & Flying bombs' by Ryusuke Ishiguro
and Tadeus Januszewski ,mention is made of the Kokuyoku Jinryu.

It was a suicide glider with a 100kg charge located in the fuselage.
The plane should be launched with rocket assisted take off from tunnels
in mountain sides and used against ships and tanks attempting to land on
the beaches of the Japanese islands.
 

Apophenia

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Hi Lark. That should be Kokukyoku Jinryu -- Kokukyoku being a family name. The same source also mentions a Kokukyoku Shusui-shiki Kayaku rocket for the IJN.

I think 'kokuyoku' means 'ruby'. Anyone know what 'jinryu' meant to a contemporary (it seems to mean 'people mover' in a light rail sense now).
 

Pelzig

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To be technical, the Jinryu was a motor glider, not a true, unpowered glider. The use of rockets which were built into the glider to allow it to take off, by definition, removes it from being a pure sailplane. borovik's question was whether or not the Japanese had a purpose built attack glider like the German BV 40 which had no propulsion, which they did not. They also did not, so far as I know, adapt the sailplanes they had for attack purposes, such as the Germans did with the test arming of DFS Habicht sailplanes with 9mm MP40 submachineguns (which would have been of highly dubious value).

;D

lark said:
In 'Japanese Special Attack Aircraft & Flying bombs' by Ryusuke Ishiguro
and Tadeus Januszewski ,mention is made of the Kokuyoku Jinryu.

It was a suicide glider with a 100kg charge located in the fuselage.
The plane should be launched with rocket assisted take off from tunnels
in mountain sides and used against ships and tanks attempting to land on
the beaches of the Japanese islands.
 

Pelzig

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In Ishiguro and Januszewski's book, "Jinryu" is defined as "Divine Dragon". There is also the Mizuno "Shinryu II", Shinryu also meaning "Divine Dragon". This may be the rocket glider/interceptor the authors reference as the MX75 in their Japanese Special Attack Aircraft & Flying Bombs book.

Apophenia said:
Hi Lark. That should be Kokukyoku Jinryu -- Kokukyoku being a family name. The same source also mentions a Kokukyoku Shusui-shiki Kayaku rocket for the IJN.

I think 'kokuyoku' means 'ruby'. Anyone know what 'jinryu' meant to a contemporary (it seems to mean 'people mover' in a light rail sense now).
 

lark

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You are correct Apophenia,I indeed forgot a 'k' in the Kokukyoku..

Since the rockets of this design were only used for take off with
10sec. firing time , it was not a true powered glider I think.
During it's development,it was suggested that the plane should be
armed with rocketprojectiles for attacks against B-29's , which
should have made it an unpowered interceptor as the BV 40...
 

Pelzig

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I'd imagine it may boil down to ones definition of a glider or what the intent of borovik's question was. A true glider has no means of propulsion at all. That is, it cannot take off on its own and requires some external means to get it off the ground, usually by being towed aloft. A motor glider has a means to take off on its own or sustain itself in flight if required.

True, the Jinryu was considered as a means to attack B-29s but I think the idea of the Jinryu being anti-bomber was passed along to the Mizuno Shinryu which was dedicated to the task rather than the Jinryu being adapted to such a task. The Shinryu was far more an aircraft like the Me 163 in mission profile which had a glider form given the short endurance of the rocket engines that required superior gliding capability in order to return to earth in one piece. The open cockpit Jinryu, if it was left as it was or modified to just include the added rocket motors and rocket armament, would have been hard pressed to take on B-29s at 30,000+ feet.

lark said:
You are correct Apophenia,I indeed forgot a 'k' in the Kokukyoku..

Since the rockets of this design were only used for take off with
10sec. firing time , it was not a true powered glider I think.
During it's development,it was suggested that the plane should be
armed with rocketprojectiles for attacks against B-29's , which
should have made it an unpowered interceptor as the BV 40...
 

gerhard

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Hi Guys

I have found a new glider page. Could someone identify these?

http://www.geocities.jp/wjp_glider/study/study1.htm

Regards
Gerhard
 

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robunos

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1 appears to be an original design, developed/inspired by the Lippisch designed 'Pruefling' secondary glider, a following to the 'Zogling' primary.

2 appears similar to the Edmund Schnieder (Grunau) designed ESG 31 series, but differs somewhat from the drawing that I have.

3 looks very familiar, but I'm damned if I can remember what it is. The lobate ailerons are very distinctive, and the faired fuselage, along with the '22:1' data entry,
which is almost certainly the glide ratio, suggest the immediate post-war period.

4 is a Goppingen 1 'Wolf' from 1935. According to 'Sailplanes 1920-1945', Martin Simons, page 99, three were exported to Japan.

Sorry, that's the best I can do, perhaps one of our Japanese speaking colleagues can translate the page for us?


cheers,
Robin.
 

blackkite

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Hi! No.2 and No.3 were Tachikawa Ki24.
No.4 picture shows rear view and front view of KAYABA Ku3(HK3).
No.5 and No.7 were Fukuda Ki23.(Hikari-shiki 6.2)
No.9 was Kyushu imperial university Type5 "Mt.Aso".
No.10 was Kyushu imperial university Type7.
No.12 was Goeppingen 1.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/kami9454/52776301.html
These links are for Kayaba 1 and 2 and3.
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-1.html
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-2.html
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-3.html
And the list of Japanese military gliders.
http://ksa.axisz.jp/G-12HikoDaiichisentai-2.htm
And some pictures. Source:All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army, KANTOSHA TOKYO ISBN978-4-87357-233-8 C9476 February 2008
 

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blackkite

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No.1 was perhaps Nippon small aircraft "蝶 Chou:butterfly".
No.6 was Nippon small aircraft "Chikara(ちから:power)" nonlimited acrobatic glider for the IJN.
No.11 was Maeda type 6.
Now we can identify all of the gliders here.
Unknown source
 

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robunos

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...as the Germans did with the test arming of DFS Habicht sailplanes with 9mm MP40 submachineguns (which would have been of highly dubious value).


Drifting OT briefly, but IIRC, the MG armed Habichts had clipped wings (Stummel Habicht), and weren't intended for operational use, but for gunnery training by trainee Me163 pilots.


cheers,
Robin.
 

blackkite

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Hi! I found this great website for Japanese gliders.
unfortunately it's written only in Japanese, I will try to explain you one by one.
If you click left side of this website,you can see many Japanese glider pictures and 3-side views. 

http://www.vsha.jp/page219.php
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Kyutei 1 gata.(Sato Maeda 1-go)
Kyutei 2 gata.(Sato Maeda 2-go)
Kyutei 9 gata-A.

Kyutei means Kyushu teikoku daigaku(九州帝国大学)(the Kyushu imperial university,now Kyushu university.)

http://www.kyushu-u.ac.jp/english/university/history/index.php

Gata(型) means "type".
Go(号) means "number".(1-go means No.1)
Sato(佐藤) and Maeda(前田) are designer's name.
 

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Stargazer2006

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Brilliant! Now it may be easier to distinguish between the various gliders we find on old Japanese photographs. These two models also remind me of the Tachikawa Ki-24, don't you think so?
 

blackkite

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Yes I think so.
Next one is Mizuno(美津濃) shiki 102 gata.
Shiki(式) means "type",too
Mizuno is the maker of this glider.

And Maeda shiki 105 gata.
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
Ito(伊藤式) shiki A-2 gata.
Monbusho(文部省) 1 go.
Monbusho means Ministry of education.
Hikari(光) shiki 1.3 gata.
Hikari means light.
Asahi(朝日) shiki Komadiri(駒鳥) go.
Asahi means morning sunshine. Komadori means a robin.
 

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blackkite

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Hi! It's no use to post all pictures and drawings of these gliders.
I will make Japanese-English tables or you can easily identify all of the gliders of this site. Please wait.

Another site.
http://ksa.axisz.jp/0005-Gindex.htm

http://park12.wakwak.com/~dikiya/solid/farc-works/glider-series/glider-series.html

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/JapaneseTaillessPlane.html

http://www.syoyuroku.sakura.ne.jp/13gousi/13-04.pdf

Sorry.Off topic.
http://www.vsha.jp/a/sageyoku-matsumoto.pdf
 

hesham

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Hi,


what about Itoh gliders.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Blackkite.
 

hesham

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Hi,


from Le FANA 427,here is the Fukuda Ku-9 drawing,also the Nihon Ku-8-II and
Ku-11,also the Yokosuka/Nihon MXY5 and Maeda Ku-1 drawings.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


does anyone know if that C.10 glider was built or not ?.


http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1954/1954%20-%201382.html
 

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hesham

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Maveric said:
Looks like the german FAG Chemnitz C.10...!!!

My dear Maveric,


maybe a misprint from them ?.
 

Maveric

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I think so. All of these models (Flight article) are from Germany, only the Fauvel was french.
 

Stargazer2006

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This plan for the MXY5 is absolutely splendid, thanks.

Can you tell me why the L7P1 prototype seems to have two fuselages glued together? Doesn't make sense to me.
 

blackkite

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Skyblazer said:
This plan for the MXY5 is absolutely splendid, thanks.

Can you tell me why the L7P1 prototype seems to have two fuselages glued together? Doesn't make sense to me.
Hmm...I don't know.
 

blackkite

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練習滑空機「若桜」
 特攻攻撃機「桜花」の練習用として計画された動力付き滑空機であ
る。昭和16年、空技廠の計画で、日本小型飛行機が設計試作を行って
いた高速度曳航操縦訓練用滑空練習機「力」に「桜花」と同じロケット
・エンジンを装備した縦列2座の滑空練習機であったが、計画のみで
実現せずに終わった。
         滑空練習機「力」主要目
寸 度  全幅 11.250m    全長 8.800m  
   主翼弦長 2.000m(付け根)~1.000m(翼端) 
  水平尾翼幅 3.600m 垂直尾翼高 1.800m)
   主翼面積 18.000㎡ 自重  324㎏  総重量 550㎏
性 能  許容曳航速度 160.0kt(296km/h)
      最良滑空比 18.1/55kt(102km/h)
     最小沈下速度  1.5m/s/50kt(93km/h)
       着陸速度 23.0kt(61km/h)(フラップ35°)
乗員 2名

Exercise glider early cherry blossoms
Powered gliders was planned as practice for OHKA kamikaze attack bomber.
In 1941, Kugisho planned to use high speed towing pilot training exercise gliders 'Chikara' for Ohka exercise glider.
This glider had Ohka rocket engine.
Planned only.
main specifications
Span 11.250 m, Length 8.800 m
Wing chord length 2.000 m (groin)~1.000m(wing tip)
Horizontal stabilizer wingspan 3.600 m
Vertical stabilizer height 1.800 m)
Wing area 18.000 m²
324 kg dead weight
total weight 550 kg
Performance towing speed 160.0 kt (296 km/h)
Best glide ratio 18.1 / 55 kt (102 km/h)
The minimum sink speed 1.5 m / s and 50 kt (93 km/h)
Landing speed 23.0 kt (61 km/h) (flap 35 degrees)
The two pilots
 

gerhard

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Hi guys

I have always been under the impression that Chikara was also known as the MXJ-1.
Is this correct?

Cheers
 

Stargazer2006

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gerhard said:
Hi guys

I have always been under the impression that Chikara was also known as the MXJ-1.
Is this correct?

Cheers
I don't think so. According to my research, MXJ1 was Nihon Kogata's Model K-15, submitted to the 17-Shi Experimental Research Plane specification. This Special Trainer Glider was known as the Wakakusa. Its competitor in the same 1942 competition was Mizuno's MXZ1.
 

gerhard

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Skyblazer, do you have a picture of the K-15?
 
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