Iranian made SAMs

JFC Fuller

JFC Fuller

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Back in 2010 Iran announced that it had cloned the Hawk system and called it Shahin and incorporated it in a system called Mersad that along with some primitive looking radars also incorporated a rather cool quad twin 23mm cannon system:



Then earlier this year they announced they were working on a Bavar 373 system whose obviously mocked up TELS looked rather like China's HQ-16 system (to me):



Recently the Iranians have continued their relative lack of innovation with the Mehrab, essentially a cloned SM-1 that they seem to be mounting in boxes on their "destroyers" along with particularly primitive fire control systems:



And most recently we have the Ra'd, which seems to be a cloned Buk system though they have been suspiciously quiet on the radars and fire control elements:



Iran seems to be playing with a whole bunch of programmes, it seems to be fairly obvious that few of them are really any good but it will be fun when they eventually get blown to pieces.
 
The best summary I have heard of all the Indigenous conventional Iranian weapons programs was:

"And yet it can all be gone in moments"
 
Iranians recently paraded what is appearently an Iranian knock off of a Chinese knock off of the Russian S-300 SAM. The thing was even painted in a pattern mimicking to the unique Chinese square pixel camouflage pattern. The problem is unlike the Chinese knockoff, which have actually been seen to fire from an cross-country TEL and hit things, the Iranian knockoff of the Chinese knockoff were mounted on standard truck chassis with sheet metal cladding, and no actuators to actually stand the fake missile canisters on end so they can pretend to fire.
 
This topic would be so much better with pictures, and less of the silly, snide, chest-beating jingoistic comments. :(

These comments serve zero purpose on an international forum like this. Otherwise it will just end up like MP.net.

Why not see if you can post pictures to match the different projects instead?
 
Chuck4,

Actually hasn't recently paraded their S-300 class SAM. In the most recent parade Iran merely showed off a Heavy-duty truck which had a poster on that showed it to be a possible basis for a TEL for such a missile. FYI, the S-300 class SAM Iran is working on is called the Bavar-373. Other than the new poster, little is known about the project.

The real attraction in the parade was a new medium-range SAM operated by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (as opposed to the Iranian Army) that heavily resembles the Soviet/Russian BUK called the Ra'ad-1. The missile the system uses, the "Taer-2" looks quite similar to the 9M317 missile used by later variants of the BUK family. The Ra'ad-1 is claimed to have a range of 50km. In comparison to the BUK-M2 it uses a similar looking but also distinctively different TELAR, carries just three missiles not four and the TELARs on parade had no radar mounted. However a video showing the system being tested (proving its not a mockup or a fake) shows a radar system mounted on the TEL (thus making it a TELAR).
 

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Bavar-373 mockup, using a previous TEL, and publicly displayed in 2010:
 

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chuck4 said:
Iranians recently paraded what is appearently an Iranian knock off of a Chinese knock off of the Russian S-300 SAM.
Click to expand...

I like this!!!
I don't think its far from the mark - if not correct! :-X

Regards
Pioneer
 
Contrary to popular reports, there is zero evidence the Bavar-373 has anything to do with the Chinese HQ-9 other than they are both reportedly based on the S-300P/PMU family.

As the images I posted suggest, the "launcher mockup" from two years ago was just for show. The launch vehicle Iran plans on using is fundamentally different from anything the Russians or Chinese use. Other than that, too little is known about the Bavar-373 to say what it is most related to.
 
Iran paraded the launcher mockup right after Russian announced the S-300 would be subject to embargo, proclaiming that it had no need of the S-300 since it had its own superior program in the works. I would suspect the mockups were built almost overnight, otherwise they might have done a better job. The 1 billion planned to be spent on S-300 no doubt became a 1 billion dollar nest egg to fund an R&D program.


If it is based on anything in specific the most likely source of information would be the rumored handful of S-300 battery components said to have been passed on by Belarus in exchange for oil in the mid-late 2000s period. HQ-9 makes about zero sense.
 
JFC Fuller said:
Based on everything they have done so far it will probably be based very heavily on what they already have in country, it may end up looking outwardly similar to the likes of the HQ-9/S-300 family but will probably be markedly more primitive.
Click to expand...
You can't really go markedly more primitive than S-300P in modern world. Well, you can, but you will really need to TRY.
 
The cabin looks so small! Also, this kind of AC unit placed next to the antennae could alter signal quality.
 
shin_getter said:

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Is this class of weapon bound for mass adaption?
Click to expand...

Appears unlikely - the target(s) of the weapon is unclear - maybe targeted at enemy airbases to target returning aircraft coming in to land?
And unclear how capable it is/ could be, especially given the likely high reliance on the capability of its optical search/ acquisition sensors, given it’s apparently limited dynamic performance (even for use against helicopters or loitering UCAVs).
 
Another possibility would be semi-deniable terrorist strikes, similar to the attack on the Saudi oilfields, but targeting air transport.
 
Rheintochter, is that you ? . . .

cheers,
Robin.
 
Also put it on a boat...
Ea8ceoqWkAEg1w0.jpg
 
It honestly looks more like a Loitering munitions than SAM's. It even has a Jet propulsion.
 
Those are interesting speculation. Tho i'm still have my doubt especially regarding the flight ceiling and the SAM roles. Martlet is being advertised as Air to surface weapon yet it also have laser fuze.

The "endurance" tactics is also source of doubt as it implies a pure pursuit kinematics which.. kinda doubt any anti aircraft missile would pursuit as it essentially requires ability to fly twice the range of when it used for a head-on attacks. Plus it's pursuing meaning that the target will always be opening. unless the missile can keep T/W to 1 or more i dont think it's a good tactics.

The turbojet it may also subject to Thrust lapse where it lost thrust as a function of altitude. the 51 Lb SLS Olympus turbojet it use would only have 20 Lb at 10 Km altitude.
 
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Sineva said:
Heres a recent vid of what looks very much like a "358" intercepting a scan eagle uav in yemen

This is at least the second time its been used to engage a uav,with a prior ch4 shoot down likely to its credit.
Click to expand...

Ah! I'd been wondering about the role - as it could only intercept relatively slow and non-manoeuvring targets... but the idea that this design is intended to clear the sky of remotely piloted drones at medium/low altitudes makes a lot of sense!
 
It seems to me that the 358 missile category should replace the bulk of manpads in service. The advantage of the conventional manpad is perhaps in effectiveness against strafing fast fliers and a faster response time against pop up targets, while the 358 can deal with MALE drones designed to stay out of manpad range, or rotorcraft using standoff or pop up attacks.

MALE drones enables very low cost aerial control of the ground, and any ground force would need to neutralize this threat for the ground force to any chance at maneuver. Man packed missile is easy to hide, the design is not too expensive and it works.-
 
I wonder if it might have been cheaper to have outbid Iraq for Gerald Bull and had him build Uber high ack-ack ;)
 
Sineva said:
Heres a comparison pic between the turrets of an original tor m1 in iranian service,and the new dezful.
It becomes obvious very quickly when you look at them,that these are not exactly alike,and that in fact there are lots of small physical differences in detail between the 2 systems,which I think is not something that you would expect to see if this were merely a rehousing of the original tor m1 onto a new vehicle,or a modernisation of its electronics.
Click to expand...

The differences may only involve replacing the apparently toolbox at the side of the "original" Tor-M1. They might have removed it to reduce the width of the vehicle. Similar thing Almaz Antey & India did to rehost TOR in Tata chassis.

1387528451_unnamed.jpg


You can compare with Those TOR's hosted in wheeled chassis with tracked one.

TOR-M2_SA-15D_short-range_surface-to-air_defense_misssile_system_Russia_Russian_army_925_001.jpg


Granted this is TOR M-2 but you can see the box is missing in the wheeled chassis.

This is trailer Tor-M1 variant.
Tor-M1-Towed-1S.jpg


Notice that it doesnt have that Side box attachements. Unlike the tracked variant.

So yeah i am not convinced at all.
 
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