India's 5th generation fighter programme - from MCA to AMCA

Waterballoon said:
The J-35/A also uses GaN based AESA radar. Together with the later iterations of the J-20 they are the only two 5th gen fighters with GaN radars currently. KF-21 also has a GaN based radar but it isn't a 5th gen fighter.

F-35 Block 4 should get the GaN based AN/APG-85 and the Murad-600 is also going to be GaN based.
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Do we know whether the AMCA will use GaAs or GaN? It is already behind schedule (by that, I mean the IAF needed it like yesterday), so I don’t see them opting for any kind of fancier material or technology.
 
The radar to be used on Su-30MKI UPG is an upscaled variant of Uttam.

It's called Virupaksha.

It has 2500 TRM modules. GaN HEMT. Vivaldi antenna elements. UWB.

According to stealth flanker calculations, it's the most powerful and longest ranging aesa mmr for a fighter ac in existence today.
 
ArihantRoy93 said:
The radar to be used on Su-30MKI UPG is an upscaled variant of Uttam.

It's called Virupaksha.

It has 2500 TRM modules. GaN HEMT. Vivaldi antenna elements. UWB.

According to stealth flanker calculations, it's the most powerful and longest ranging aesa mmr for a fighter ac in existence today.
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"Su-30MKI UPG"? Does such a thing exist?
 
ArihantRoy93 said:
MLU of Sukhoi. Media calls the project Super Sukhoi.

Many sensors and LRUs that will be installed on MKI have already been developed or are under development now.
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Ok. These two words - "Super Sukhoi" - have been flying through the media for at least 10 years, maybe more.
But does such a thing exist?
 
ArihantRoy93 said:
According to stealth flanker calculations, it's the most powerful and longest ranging aesa mmr for a fighter ac in existence today.
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It isn't in existence (i.e. deployed and of operational value), and, as far as we can tell, it isn't even in flight testing.

Given lack of any significant heritage of Indian fighter radars deployment, as well as how rare GaN fighter radar still is worldwide (deployed sets still can be counted by fingers of one hand), I am personally quite skeptical it'll go as planned.
 
...just like there is nothing like "Uttam radar".
 
Geo said:
...just like there is nothing like "Uttam radar".
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Yeah, given how we now see whole new sub generation of aircraft entering service in China this year, Uttam fairytales are a bit tiring.
 

India's Su-30MKI Set For Rs 66,829 Cr Super-30 Upgrade, To Outclass Pakistan’s F-16s​

Curated By :
Last Updated:July 03, 2025, 07:36 IST

The Super-30 project will equip Su-30MKI with DRDO’s Virupaksha AESA radar, using gallium nitride tech to detect enemy targets up to 300–400 km away​

www.news18.com

India's Su-30MKI Set For Rs 66,829 Cr Super-30 Upgrade, To Outclass Pakistan’s F-16s

The Super-30 project will equip Su-30MKI with DRDO’s Virupaksha AESA radar, using gallium nitride tech to detect enemy targets up to 300–400 km away
www.news18.com www.news18.com
In a major push to strengthen its air power, India has inked a Rs 13,500 crore deal with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for 12 indigenous Su-30MKI fighter jets.

The agreement, signed on December 12, 2024, marks a significant step towards self-reliance under the Aatmanirbhar Bharat initiative and bolsters the Indian Air Force's (IAF) operational capabilities.

The new Su-30MKIs, featuring 62.6% indigenous content, will be produced at HAL's Nasik division, with key components supplied by Indian defence industry partners.

www.indiatoday.in

India signs Rs 13,500 crore deal for advanced indigenous Su-30MKI jets

The new Su-30MKIs, featuring 62.6% indigenous content, will be produced at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's Nasik division, with key components supplied by Indian defence industry partners.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
 
Geo said:
...just like there is nothing like "Uttam radar".
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You guys must have been living under a rock for the last couple of years.

The vanilla Uttam variant has been flying on 1-2 Tejas LRIP jets for the last 4-5 yrs. Then there's the airborne radar test bed also called Virupaksha. Uttam has logged in hundreds of hours aboard Tejas itself.

Theres a new improved variant with a larger no of TRM meant for Tejas mk1A and mk2. Prototypes of this radar are under fabrication now by Astra Microwave.
 
As of March 2021, the basic variant of Tejas has flown for 230 hours on Tejas and the aerial radar test bed.

In April last year, Dr Jitendra Yadav has stated in an interview that Uttam radar has logged 120 sorties on a Tejas LRIP jet. He has also stated on record that it's performance was as good as the Elta EL/M-2052 aesa radar.

This basic version had 768 TRM. The one going into series production has 912 TRM.

This is the basic variant that has been flying for more than 5 yrs. Dz1ryH7WkAYswdo.jpeg Dz1ryH7WsAAi7hN.jpeg

Besides we have multiple ground based radars that use GaN HEMT.
 
ArihantRoy93 said:
As of March 2021, the basic variant of Tejas has flown for 230 hours on Tejas and the aerial radar test bed.

In April last year, Dr Jitendra Yadav has stated in an interview that Uttam radar has logged 120 sorties on a Tejas LRIP jet. He has also stated on record that it's performance was as good as the Elta EL/M-2052 aesa radar.

This basic version had 768 TRM. The one going into series production has 912 TRM.

This is the basic variant that has been flying for more than 5 yrs.View attachment 777106View attachment 777107

Besides we have multiple ground based radars that use GaN HEMT.
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Isn't the Uttam radar for the tejas mk1a delayed? I heard for the first batch of tejas mk1a fighters they will be equipped with israeli radars instead.
 
Nx4eu said:
Isn't the Uttam radar for the tejas mk1a delayed? I heard for the first batch of tejas mk1a fighters they will be equipped with israeli radars instead.
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According to HAL CMD, certification of the indigenous EW suite hasn't been completed yet forcing him to place an intent of order to Elta for another 43 radars.

But according to DRDO DG, they are in discussions with HAL to sort this out.

Uttam Mk1 has been ready for quite some time.
 
AnonSB said:
No offense, but I highly doubt the possibility of both arguments being true at the same time...
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GtF3cXKXkAE1RYY.jpeg

Letter of intent has already been issued to Astra Microwave for production of 120 Uttam radars for Tejas mk1A.

The EW pod has to work in sync with the radar. The orders for 43 radars haven't yet been placed by HAL.

This variant of Uttam is different to the Uttam displayed at Aero India 2021.
 
Lacy said:
he says "the discussions are still underway with HAL to see if UTTAM radar can be put in from 41st. we are still hopeful".

letter of intents don't mean much if they're not actualized by orders and the man in the video doesn't seem to be highly confident of it.
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Only time will tell.

The prototype of the Uttam variant for MWF has already been fabricated.
 
1751956397514.png
Point 2: AMCA Contract will be awarded in the next 3-6 months to build the prototype.
Point 3: means that Development of AMCA prototype & induction will take 10 years. (Apparently the media took twisted his word/he didn't mean prototype will take 10 years)

Based off of India's track record, I reckon 10 years is highly optimistic to go from awarding contract by 2025 end to induction by 2035. Personally Expect late 2030s early 2040s.
 
Nx4eu said:
View attachment 777371
Point 2: AMCA Contract will be awarded in the next 3-6 months to build the prototype.
Point 3: means that Development of AMCA prototype & induction will take 10 years. (Apparently the media took twisted his word/he didn't mean prototype will take 10 years)

Based off of India's track record, I reckon 10 years is highly optimistic to go from awarding contract by 2025 end to induction by 2035. Personally Expect late 2030s early 2040s.
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Few points here.

1. GoI has already sanctioned the requisite funds for AMCA last year. The said funds have been disbursed by MoD Defence accounts to ADA.

2. The rollout of the 4 prototypes and their flight test campaigns have nothing to do with the AMCA contract signature. Rs 15000 cr has already been earmarked for this project last year when CCS cleared the AMCA project.

3. According to latest timelines from Aero India 2025, ADA plans to roll out the first prototype in 2027 end and have FF in 2028.

4. Unlike other VLO jets, CDR for AMCA had already been completed by the time CCS approval came last year.
 
ArihantRoy93 said:
Few points here.

1. GoI has already sanctioned the requisite funds for AMCA last year. The said funds have been disbursed by MoD Defence accounts to ADA.

2. The rollout of the 4 prototypes and their flight test campaigns have nothing to do with the AMCA contract signature. Rs 15000 cr has already been earmarked for this project last year when CCS cleared the AMCA project.

3. According to latest timelines from Aero India 2025, ADA plans to roll out the first prototype in 2027 end and have FF in 2028.

4. Unlike other VLO jets, CDR for AMCA had already been completed by the time CCS approval came last year.
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First prototype rollout by 2027 end and FF in 2028 is highly optimistic.

Wasn't Tejas mk2 funds sanctioned in 2022, rollout is supposed to be by end of 2025 with FF by Q1 2026. That's 3 years from sanctioned funds to rollout for a fighter jet that is far less complex than AMCA.

If AMCA had the requisite funds sanctioned in 2024, based on India's track record, prototype roll out by 2027 and FF by 2028 is not realistic. AMCA is nearly 2x larger than tejas mk2, uses two engines instead of one. Has far more complex systems and requires far more advanced parts from many vendors compared to tejas mk2.

If it takes 3 years for Tejas mk2, I suspect AMCA prototype will take 5 years to manufacture. This will be very easily testable. If tejas mk2 is not seen by Q4 2025. I will suspect that AMCA timeline is not realistic at all.

I am already reminded that the original Tejas mk2 timeline has slightly slipped before the revised timeline for FF by Q1 2026. So most likely AMCA will have delays too.

Again only time will tell.
 
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Nx4eu said:
First prototype rollout by 2027 end and FF in 2028 is highly optimistic.

Wasn't Tejas mk2 funds sanctioned in 2022, rollout is supposed to be by end of 2025 with FF by Q1 2026. That's 3 years from sanctioned funds to rollout for a fighter jet that is far less complex than AMCA.

If AMCA had the requisite funds sanctioned in 2024, based on India's track record, prototype roll out by 2027 and FF by 2028 is not realistic. AMCA is nearly 2x larger than tejas mk2, uses two engines instead of one. Has far more complex systems and requires far more advanced parts from many vendors compared to tejas mk2.

If it takes 3 years for Tejas mk2, I suspect AMCA prototype will take 5 years to manufacture. This will be very easily testable. If tejas mk2 is not seen by Q4 2025. I will suspect that AMCA timeline is not realistic at all.

I am already reminded that the original Tejas mk2 timeline has slightly slipped before the revised timeline for FF by Q1 2026. So most likely AMCA will have delays too.

Again only time will tell.
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Here's a catch. Although CCS sanctioned MWF in Sept 2022, actual funds hadn't been disbursed to ADA. The disbursement was linked to the HAL GE F414 deal. Funds were released much later. Many prominent handles have talked about this in length.

Besides, for Tejas Mk2, CDR hadn't been completed at the time of CCS sanction whole that's not the case for AMCA.

Here, https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/air/tejas-mk-2-languishes-amid-lack-of-funds

This is why the timeline of rollout of first prototype in 2027 and FF in 2028 is realistic.

https://www.janes.com/osint-insight...finishes-systems-level-critical-design-review
 
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Deino said:
Sorry, couldn't resist ... looks almost like a copy of the J-35!

View attachment 781260
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I avoid politics, taunting, etc which derails the subjects & focus only on tech aspects, so i would say that certain features become basic for all stealth jets like 'planform design', EOTS, DAS, HMDS, flush sensors, perhaps DSI, etc, etc. So J-35, J-20, AMCA, KF-21, Kaan have subset of these features.
All Civil jets are also identical with tubular body & typical shape wings best for subsonic flight, the position of engines & stabs vary.
We're yet to see radical Videogame like designs.
Otherwise the Chinese have been accused to copy F-22 & F-35, but i never participated in making spark an inferno & getting sandwiched b/w people from different countries. On tech forum it is best to focus on tech.
 
Seeing as the AMCA still retains the centerline Ball IRST like the Su-57 and not an EOTS, it seems at least the Mk1 variant has less strict LO requirements than it's peers. Above the KF-21 but below the J-35.

I don't believe there is enough space for a SWB, im sure the ADA engineers have thought about their requirements, and have deemed the center weapons bay enough. The J-35 also does not possess any SWB's, they are of similar size, and I don't believe the volume permits it so.
 
Deino said:
Sorry, couldn't resist ... looks almost like a copy of the J-35!

View attachment 781260
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Wouldn't say it's a copy
You can check the beginning of this thread how the design evolved to this
ADA might've had their reasons to finalize this design
Otherwise why would india waste 10 years for design if it had to copy chinese j35 or f35
Yep the design looks similar though
 
Nx4eu said:
Seeing as the AMCA still retains the centerline Ball IRST like the Su-57 and not an EOTS, it seems at least the Mk1 variant has less strict LO requirements than it's peers. Above the KF-21 but below the J-35.

I don't believe there is enough space for a SWB, im sure the ADA engineers have thought about their requirements, and have deemed the center weapons bay enough. The J-35 also does not possess any SWB's, they are of similar size, and I don't believe the volume permits it so.
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Yes the curved IRST is concerning even if RAM applied. In Kaan, it is like EOTS. May be KF-21 next block will implement it too.

The space of IWB/SWB is created by basically humping & squeezing the airframe & giving aerodynamic cover.
When we see 4gen jets like EF-2000, F-15, F-18, etc with tight sticking AAMs, so a redesign with aerodynamic cover can be imagined.
The MLG if retracted laterally like in F-22 would create more space for SWB.
Su-57 has wing root mounted SWB.

The current IWB is 4.2m X 2.2m X 0.75m, so 2x3=6 shorter fins version of Astr AAMs can be carried. And with folding fins 2x4=8 AAMs can be carried.
 
Low IQ Techie said:
I avoid politics, taunting, etc which derails the subjects & focus only on tech aspects, so i would say that certain features become basic for all stealth jets like 'planform design', EOTS, DAS, HMDS, flush sensors, perhaps DSI, etc, etc. So J-35, J-20, AMCA, KF-21, Kaan have subset of these features.
All Civil jets are also identical with tubular body & typical shape wings best for subsonic flight, the position of engines & stabs vary.
We're yet to see radical Videogame like designs.
Otherwise the Chinese have been accused to copy F-22 & F-35, but i never participated in making spark an inferno & getting sandwiched b/w people from different countries. On tech forum it is best to focus on tech.
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Exactly my point but from China almost ANY product immediately gets bashed as a copy or clone or at least being based on stolen stuff!
 
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