If an aircraft carrier had been assigned to Force Z, what would have happened in history?

[Username666]

While I was reading about a report abou Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse, I suddenly wondered what history would have been like if HMS Indomitable had been assigned to the Force Z without any damage, or if the Implacable Class Aircraft Carrier had been built earlier than the original history and assigned to the Force Z.

What do you think about it?

 

[Pirate Pete]

Regrettably, I think, bearing in mind the types of aircraft the FAA were flying at the time…
THREE ships would have ended up on the bottom on the ocean!

 

[Avimimus]

The attack was made with relatively vulnerable twin engined bombers flying without escorts... if they were spotted in time and intercepted it might have disrupted part of the attack. I also wonder what the anti-aircraft weapon provisions would have been for the carrier itself at that point in the war? Would the additional firepower of the ship itself have made a difference in disrupting torpedo runs?

 

[EwenS]

Firstly, the idea that Indomitable would have joined Force Z but for her grounding damage in the West Indies, is a myth.

The Admiralty had decided around Aug 1941 that no carrier would be allocated to the Far East. Had the grounding not occurred, Indomitable was due at Gibraltar around the end of Nov. At that point Ark Royal would have been released for a much needed refit scheduled to last until at least April 1942. See Boyd.

The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters: Linchpin of Victory 1935-1942: Amazon.co.uk: Andrew Boyd, Forword by N A M Roger: 9781473892484: Books

Buy The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters: Linchpin of Victory 1935-1942 Illustrated by Andrew Boyd, Forword by N A M Roger (ISBN: 9781473892484) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Ark herself would have completed another “Club Run” to deliver Hurricanes to Malta prior to the end of Nov 1941 had she not been sunk. The aircraft were already at Gibraltar.

Indomitable’s Air Group included a 12 Fulmar II and 9 Sea Hurricane Ib. How effective they potentially would have been against Japanese attackers would depend on a number of factors:-
1. How early Indomitable’s radar picked up the attackers (depends on height).
2. How many fighters were already airborne on CAP and their location and height relative to both the ships of Force Z and the approaching enemy
3. How well her fighter direction team could direct any airborne CAP to those attackers
4. How many aircraft were ready for immediate launch on deck. That might depend on how likely it was considered that enemy aircraft might be met (remembering that the Japanese were operating at extreme range and had already turned for home, and beyond what the RN thought was possible).

The interception problem was complicated by there being several waves of attackers coming in at different heights.

First attack on Repulse - 8 G3M at 11,500 ft each carrying a single 250kg bomb
Second attack on Prince of Wales - torpedo attack at 200ft by 8 G4M

And so on. That makes the interception problem more complicated. This is the same problem that the Japanese faced at Midway. But at least the British aircraft had radios allowing them to be redirected while in the air.

4 months later during Operation Pedestal in the Med where 3 carriers were available with 74 fighters to begin with, the procedure was to keep a section of Sea Hurricanes at 12,000ft and a section of Fulmars at 2,000ft with more manned on deck ready for immediate take off.

But allowing for aircraft maintenance & unserviceability, and the need to maintain that CAP throughout the daylight hours, that level of air cover would have been difficult, if not impossible, for a single carrier to maintain. Any aircraft not airborne, or ready on deck would have needed refuelled and rearmed before being available for launch (aircraft not immediately needed were kept with fuel tanks empty as they were a fire hazard in the event of an attack).

Indomitable’s armament in late 1941/early 1942 was 16x4.5” (8x2), 48x2pdr (6x8) and 8x20mm (8x1).

So I’m not sure enough aircraft could have been put in the air quickly enough to have changed to overall outcome.

Edit - Even in Sept 1939 Implacable and Indefatigable were not expected to complete until late 1941 to mid-1942. After that completion dates only moved backwards for a variety of reasons. Allowing for work up time neither could have been available in the Far East in Dec 1941.

 

[Username666]

Firstly, the idea that Indomitable would have joined Force Z but for her grounding damage in the West Indies, is a myth.

The Admiralty had decided around Aug 1941 that no carrier would be allocated to the Far East. Had the grounding not occurred, Indomitable was due at Gibraltar around the end of Nov. At that point Ark Royal would have been released for a much needed refit scheduled to last until at least April 1942. See Boyd.

The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters: Linchpin of Victory 1935-1942: Amazon.co.uk: Andrew Boyd, Forword by N A M Roger: 9781473892484: Books

Buy The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters: Linchpin of Victory 1935-1942 Illustrated by Andrew Boyd, Forword by N A M Roger (ISBN: 9781473892484) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Ark herself would have completed another “Club Run” to deliver Hurricanes to Malta prior to the end of Nov 1941 had she not been sunk. The aircraft were already at Gibraltar.

Indomitable’s Air Group included a 12 Fulmar II and 9 Sea Hurricane Ib. How effective they potentially would have been against Japanese attackers would depend on a number of factors:-
1. How early Indomitable’s radar picked up the attackers (depends on height).
2. How many fighters were already airborne on CAP and their location and height relative to both the ships of Force Z and the approaching enemy
3. How well her fighter direction team could direct any airborne CAP to those attackers
4. How many aircraft were ready for immediate launch on deck. That might depend on how likely it was considered that enemy aircraft might be met (remembering that the Japanese were operating at extreme range and had already turned for home, and beyond what the RN thought was possible).

The interception problem was complicated by there being several waves of attackers coming in at different heights.

First attack on Repulse - 8 G3M at 11,500 ft each carrying a single 250kg bomb
Second attack on Prince of Wales - torpedo attack at 200ft by 8 G4M

And so on. That makes the interception problem more complicated. This is the same problem that the Japanese faced at Midway. But at least the British aircraft had radios allowing them to be redirected while in the air.

4 months later during Operation Pedestal in the Med where 3 carriers were available with 74 fighters to begin with, the procedure was to keep a section of Sea Hurricanes at 12,000ft and a section of Fulmars at 2,000ft with more manned on deck ready for immediate take off.

But allowing for aircraft maintenance & unserviceability, and the need to maintain that CAP throughout the daylight hours, that level of air cover would have been difficult, if not impossible, for a single carrier to maintain. Any aircraft not airborne, or ready on deck would have needed refuelled and rearmed before being available for launch (aircraft not immediately needed were kept with fuel tanks empty as they were a fire hazard in the event of an attack).

Indomitable’s armament in late 1941/early 1942 was 16x4.5” (8x2), 48x2pdr (6x8) and 8x20mm (8x1).

So I’m not sure enough aircraft could have been put in the air quickly enough to have changed to overall outcome.

Edit - Even in Sept 1939 Implacable and Indefatigable were not expected to complete until late 1941 to mid-1942. After that completion dates only moved backwards for a variety of reasons. Allowing for work up time neither could have been available in the Far East in Dec 1941.

Well, the site owner(Called Dae-Sa) I referred to must have encountered some wrong information. The site operator said HMS Indomitable's failure to join Force Z was due to rocks in the West Indies.

Anyway, the latter premise was that I asked because of the alternative history that I personally thought of.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Well, the site owner (Called Dae-Sa) I referred to must have encountered some wrong information. The site operator said HMS Indomitable's failure to join Force Z was due to rocks in the West Indies.

Anyway, the latter premise was that I asked because of the alternative history that I personally thought of.

It has been proved that Indomitable couldn't have reached Singapore in time to accompany Force Z if she hadn't run aground.

 

[Dilandu]

Well. Japanese force disperced over the ocean, trying to locate Force Z. So:

A - they may never actually find it, if British would use the advantages of their radar to detect Japanese patrols, and intercept them with carrier's fighters.

B - Japanese took a lot of time to gather their disperces bombers together against the Force Z. Basically they circled around the British ships, outside the range of their AA guns, massing forces for attack.

But if British have a carrier, Japanese could not do that. The carrier fighters would massacre their waiting bombers (Japanese did not have escort for them). So Japanese would be forced to attack immediately after arrival, in small groups with significant invervals between attacks. Against small number of targets, British AA fire would be significantly more efficient, and carrier fighters would at least help to disrupt attacks.

So there are good probability, that Force Z would be able to escape, suffering just a moderate damage.

The main question - what would they do next? They could not stay in Singapore, so they would be forced to retreat either Eastward (to Ceylon, joining the British forced to defend Indian Ocean), or Westward (to Indonesia, joining ABDA).

 

[Elan Vital]

What about if Glorious had not been sunk and Indomitable still doesn't run aground? Wouldn't an extra carrier change the calculus?

 

[Yellow Palace]

So there are good probability, that Force Z would be able to escape, suffering just a moderate damage.

Much the same logic applies if Force Z gets cover from the RAF, which wasn't requested in OTL until an hour after the attack began.

If it had been requested when TENEDOS - 140 miles south-east of the main force - was attacked, it would likely have arrived before the first wave attacked the capital ships. If Flight Lieutenant Vigors's proposal to maintain a 6-aircraft CAP had been accepted that morning, then it would of course have already been on scene.

 

[Avimimus]

Indomitable’s armament in late 1941/early 1942 was 16x4.5” (8x2), 48x2pdr (6x8) and 8x20mm (8x1).

So I’m not sure enough aircraft could have been put in the air quickly enough to have changed to overall outcome.

That anti-aircraft armament is actually really good for an early-war ship... and would have doubled the anti-aircraft firepower the capital ships had available against low altitude threats. One wonders if the increased firepower would have disrupted or shot down more of the attackers.

I'm actually a bit surprised that flight of six or eight twin engined bombers were able to suffer so few casualties (they represent a small number of larger targets).

The existence of a small number of CAP aircraft to help disrupt the first or second waves is a bonus. I wonder if doctrine would have allowed flying more off in a gap between the waves. It is possible that the ships would have been in better shape for the noon waves and that interceptors may have been airborne at the time.

Of course, if the first wave slipped through and hit Indomitable with a 250kg bomb in the hangar...

 

[Dilandu]

Much the same logic applies if Force Z gets cover from the RAF, which wasn't requested in OTL until an hour after the attack began.

Partially, but having an integrated air cover would be just more efficient.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

What about if Glorious had not been sunk and Indomitable still doesn't run aground? Wouldn't an extra carrier change the calculus?

Part of Post 6.

It has been proved that Indomitable couldn't have reached Singapore in time to accompany Force Z if she hadn't run aground.

Glorious (and/or Courageous) not being sunk could change the calculus considerably between June 1940 and December 1941. It depends upon what's done with her (or them).

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

Another edit made on 30.11.22 and between the uploading of Pots 32 and 33.

To clarify the three options only apply to Prince of Wales and Repulse.

The aircraft carrier goes to Ceylon to reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.

 

[uk 75]

This thread raises the wider question of why Britain underestimated what was needed to defend its empire in the Far East against Japan.

 

[kaiserd]

It’s not necessarily underestimation that proved decisive (though there was an arrogance tinged with racism in certain UK circles re: Japan army this time).

Fundamentally It’s the UK’s limited means and higher priorities at the time that meant only so much could be spared for the Far East.
UK defence plans for that theatre didn’t include also fighting Germany and Italy at the same time following the fall of France and trying to supply a hard pressed USSR.

In that context Force Z was a failed deterrent force, a signal of intent and commitment, rather than a force that could have actually changed events if it had survived. The UK couldn’t have sent sufficient forces in the real-world context to change Japan’s calculus (Japan had already accepted/ discounted/ rationalised taking on larger more capable opponents like the US). Force Z surviving a bit longer (with or without a carrier) could easily have lead to them being destroyed later in Singapore or while trying to escape Singapore while also potentially helping to suck in other naval forces/ assets to that same fate that in the real-history survived by running away following the destruction of Force Z.

 

[uk 75]

I address the problem posed by war in Europe and defending the Empire here.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-rearmament-earlier-and-more-effectively-in-the-30s.20239/page-3#post-566124

Britain was simply not resourced to fight both wars. When appeasement failed and war in Europe went badly the loss of Singapore and Hong Kong to Japan was unavoidable.
Quite what Prince of Wales and Repulse on their own could achieve or even with Illustrious must have been questionable.
Even pre war plans to send the Home and Mediterranean fleets to the Far East might not have achieved much more.
Britain is simply too weak economically and in manpower to deal with Germany, Italy and Japan at the same time.
Arguably even dealing with Japan without war in Europe was beyond our means.

 

[Dilandu]

They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.

I rather doubt that Japanese would committ their two best battleships (functional) to the secondary target. Most likely, they would sent "Kongo"-class units (like they done to cover Singapore invasion).

 

[Archibald]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Good post. Before Coral Sea and Midway (stunning) reversal of fortunes, the Wallies situations in the Indian & Pacific oceans was so dire, everywhere, the odds of PoW and Repulse being sunk... elsewhere are pretty high. It is a bit like british carriers in the Mediterranean and Europe (by large): chance of pre-war carrier survival were slim. In passing, Argus surviving the war was quite mind blowing. Langley was not so lucky. In stark contrast, Béarn actually survived in Toulon harbor until 1967, long enough to meet Foch and Clemenceau ! so did Cdt Teste, even as crippled hull.

 

[Yellow Palace]

Partially, but having an integrated air cover would be just more efficient.

Agreed - but the Japanese attack was so far out on the ragged edge that even a handful of fighters operated inefficiently could have added significantly to the defence. So, too, could a modest RAF attack on the airfields the day before: they knew the bombers were there, vulnerable in the open on crowded airfields, but didn't have any bombers of their own. Because, of course, Europe was the priority!

I rather doubt that Japanese would committ their two best battleships (functional) to the secondary target. Most likely, they would sent "Kongo"-class units (like they done to cover Singapore invasion).

Which is what they actually did: ships of the KONGO class were the heavy surface force on hand for the invasion of Malaya. The night before the sinking, Force Z and the Japanese 8-inch cruisers were within gunnery range of each other. There's some reason to think they actually saw each other, but didn't recognise what had happened. A night gun battle between British capital ships and Japanese cruisers defending a convoy could be interesting: even if they were later sunk between the efforts of KONGO, HARUNA and the air attack, they'd at least have achieved something.

 

[EwenS]

Why so surprised about Argus? She spent most of the war in secondary roles.

Oct 1939-June 1940 training carrier in the Med before war with Italy broke out.
Through the rest of 1940-42 she spent most of her time as a ferry carrier, travelling in convoy, ferrying RAF Hurricanes to Takoradi, Gibraltar, Malta & Murmansk. Only on a handful of occasions did she actually venture into the Med, usually transferring the aircraft she brought out to Gibraltar to Ark Royal and later Eagle. During these ferry operations she only had an air group of 2-4 Swordfish or Fulmars for emergencies.

Only after the sinking of Ark Royal in Nov 1941 was she tasked with a more important role as the sole carrier in Force H until Eagle’s return from refit in spring 1942.

She was used operationally during Operation Torch, but then it was back to being a training carrier in the Irish Sea in 1943 before being reduced to reserve in 1944.

Furious is perhaps the greater survivor, as much more operational use was made of her. But at the most critical time for the RN carrier wise she was in refit at Philadelphia and then in Britain between Oct 1941 and June 1942. By Sept 1944 she too was completely worn out and was sent to Reserve.

As for Langley CV-1, she had been converted to a seaplane tender in 1936/7 becoming AV-3 in the process. In doing so she lost about half her flight deck. This was to release the tonnage to build the Wasp CV-7 under the various Treaties. When sunk she was being used as an aircraft transport taking P-40s from Australia to Java. Here she is in Feb 1942 shortly before being sunk.

https://www.navsource.org/archives/09/02/09020365.jpg

 

[Hood]

You could also say what-if the Northumberland-class heavy cruisers hadn't been cancelled and the RN had two additional 8in cruisers in the Far East?
Would have made any difference or just more gun/bomb/torpedo fodder?

The RN was hard pushed everywhere - 1941 was deadly for RN ships on any front or any ocean and sea.
To be honest we should be perhaps thankful Lutjen's didn't pursue the half-functioning Duke of York after destroying Hood. We could well have lost or had her crippled even worse and no Force Z at all.

You could even make the what-if of why there was no carrier air cover for the ships covering the Crete interdiction of German/Italian seaborne forces and subsequent withdrawal? HMS Formidable was involved in attacking Scarpanto and was heavily damaged on her return to Egypt. The losses and damage caused in that week were far more crippling than the loss of Force Z.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Part of Post 18

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin Perth and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Good post. Before Coral Sea and Midway (stunning) reversal of fortunes, the Wallies situations in the Indian & Pacific oceans was so dire, everywhere, the odds of PoW and Repulse being sunk... elsewhere are pretty high. It is a bit like British carriers in the Mediterranean and Europe (by large): chance of pre-war carrier survival were slim. In passing, Argus surviving the war was quite mind blowing. Langley was not so lucky. In stark contrast, Béarn actually survived in Toulon harbour until 1967, long enough to meet Foch and Clemenceau ! so did Cdt Teste, even as crippled hull.

For what it's worth I think No. 2 is the most likely and No. 3 is the most interesting.

 

[Archibald]

Part of Post 18

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin Perth and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Good post. Before Coral Sea and Midway (stunning) reversal of fortunes, the Wallies situations in the Indian & Pacific oceans was so dire, everywhere, the odds of PoW and Repulse being sunk... elsewhere are pretty high. It is a bit like British carriers in the Mediterranean and Europe (by large): chance of pre-war carrier survival were slim. In passing, Argus surviving the war was quite mind blowing. Langley was not so lucky. In stark contrast, Béarn actually survived in Toulon harbour until 1967, long enough to meet Foch and Clemenceau ! so did Cdt Teste, even as crippled hull.

For what it's worth I think No. 2 is the most likely and No. 3 is the most interesting.

No. 2 - there was a big japanese raid on Ceylon circa April 1942 no ? that did a lot damage (can't remember which carrier was sunk, but one certainly kicked the bucket)

No.3 - that would be interesting, indeed. Although the age of carriers started right there, battleships and battlecruisers were not a big part of the naval action there. Same at Midway, now imagine if they find their way to round 3 - Guadalcanal. There was one of the few battleship brawls of WWII, between US "treaty battleships" (the ones before the Iowas, USS Washington and another one, from memory) and Japanese BB. Imagine if PoW found itself in that bloody night brawl. Repulse too, but there is a real risk the latter pulls a Hood, same flaws, old BC used as a modern fast BB except with the wrong armor...

 

[Username666]

Part of Post 18

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin Perth and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Good post. Before Coral Sea and Midway (stunning) reversal of fortunes, the Wallies situations in the Indian & Pacific oceans was so dire, everywhere, the odds of PoW and Repulse being sunk... elsewhere are pretty high. It is a bit like British carriers in the Mediterranean and Europe (by large): chance of pre-war carrier survival were slim. In passing, Argus surviving the war was quite mind blowing. Langley was not so lucky. In stark contrast, Béarn actually survived in Toulon harbour until 1967, long enough to meet Foch and Clemenceau ! so did Cdt Teste, even as crippled hull.

For what it's worth I think No. 2 is the most likely and No. 3 is the most interesting.

No. 2 - there was a big japanese raid on Ceylon circa April 1942 no ? that did a lot damage (can't remember which carrier was sunk, but one certainly kicked the bucket)

No.3 - that would be interesting, indeed. Although the age of carriers started right there, battleships and battlecruisers were not a big part of the naval action there. Same at Midway, now imagine if they find their way to round 3 - Guadalcanal. There was one of the few battleship brawls of WWII, between US "treaty battleships" (the ones before the Iowas, USS Washington and another one, from memory) and Japanese BB. Imagine if PoW found itself in that bloody night brawl. Repulse too, but there is a real risk the latter pulls a Hood, same flaws, old BC used as a modern fast BB except with the wrong armor...

The British aircraft carrier that sank at that time was the HMS Hermes(95).

It was the second oldest aircraft carrier in the world, and because of that, so it was already out of date at the time.

*Bloody Papago, It made error again.

 

[Username666]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refueling aircraft gas based on the other options.

 

[Nik]

I've seen this argued every-which-way on numerous forums, heard it war-gamed by experts and 'experts'...

Worst case, SINKEX: all three are sunk, but the Japanese lose half their bombers.
Best case, DUCK-SHOOT: all three take modest damage, but those bombers get mauled.
Probably, LADY-LUCK: the bombers get mauled, but enough damage for the RN to be left sucking their teeth at how Effin' badly it could so easily have gone...

 

[EwenS]

No. 2 - there was a big japanese raid on Ceylon circa April 1942 no ? that did a lot damage (can't remember which carrier was sunk, but one certainly kicked the bucket)

The carrier sunk was the Hermes, the first ship designed from the keel up for the RN as an aircraft carrier (Argus was the first carrier for the RN with a flush flight deck). In WW2 her size limited her air group to only 12 Swordfish (disembarked at the time of her loss)

You will find a series of very detailed articles by Rob Stuart on the Japanese foray into the IO in March/April 1942 here:-

Articles

 

[EwenS]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refueling aircraft gas based on the other options.

Assuming that you have to leave the Sumatra / Java area and its refineries producing aviation fuel amongst other products, if you are looking for RN fuel stocks generally then Trincomalee is the place to go. It held the second largest stocks in the world after Singapore. Darwin was tiny in comparison and some of the tanks were destroyed in the 19 Feb 1942 strike on the facilities there by both carrier & land based aircraft. Does that go ahead in this ATL?

 

[Username666]

I've seen this argued every-which-way on numerous forums, heard it war-gamed by experts and 'experts'...

Worst case, SINKEX: all three are sunk, but the Japanese lose half their bombers.
Best case, DUCK-SHOOT: all three take modest damage, but those bombers get mauled.
Probably, LADY-LUCK: the bombers get mauled, but enough damage for the RN to be left sucking their teeth at how Effin' badly it could so easily have gone...

I think it'll probably be between Duck-Shoot and Lady Luck. Because there wasn't a single fighter in the Japanese Navy's Fleet Air Arm at that time.

By the way, what's Effin'?

 

[Username666]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refueling aircraft gas based on the other options.

Assuming that you have to leave the Sumatra / Java area and its refineries producing aviation fuel amongst other products, if you are looking for RN fuel stocks generally then Trincomalee is the place to go. It held the second largest stocks in the world after Singapore. Darwin was tiny in comparison and some of the tanks were destroyed in the 19 Feb 1942 strike on the facilities there by both carrier & land based aircraft. Does that go ahead in this ATL?

Oh, there must have been a large aviation fuel depot in Trancomalee. I knew very little about the British navy in the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean, So I don't know about the naval base of Trincomalee.

That's why I thought they'd go to sydney.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refuelling aircraft gas based on the other options.

I don't understand your last sentence.

For what it's worth, according to sea-distances.org

1,567 miles Singapore to Colombo​

1,887 miles Singapore to Darwin​

2,220 miles Singapore to Perth​

Indomitable didn't make it to Singapore before it fell, but she did embark Hurricanes at Port Sudan in January 1942 and on the 27th flew them to Batavia from a position south of Sumatra and then steamed to Trincomalee where she refuelled. That's according to naval-history.net which also says.

March 1942 - Diverted on passage to Java and took second batch of Hurricanes to Ceylon to reinforce existing air defence resources. Re-embarked own aircraft.

HMS Indomitable, British aircraft carrier, WW2

At one point in 1942 the Eastern Fleet had 3 aircraft carriers (Formidable, Illustrious and Indomitable) based in Ceylon.

 

[Username666]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refuelling aircraft gas based on the other options.

I don't understand your last sentence.

For what it's worth, according to sea-distances.org

1,567 miles Singapore to Colombo​

1,887 miles Singapore to Darwin​

2,220 miles Singapore to Perth​

Indomitable didn't make it to Singapore before it fell, but she did embark Hurricanes at Port Sudan in January 1942 and on the 27th flew them to Batavia from a position south of Sumatra and then steamed to Trincomalee where she refuelled. That's according to naval-history.net which also says.

Diverted on passage to Java and took second batch of Hurricanes to Ceylon to reinforce existing air defence resources. Re-embarked own aircraft.

HMS Indomitable, British aircraft carrier, WW2

At one point in 1942 the Eastern Fleet had 3 aircraft carriers (Formidable, Illustrious and Indomitable) based in Ceylon.

Oh... I don't think it'd be weird if I withdrew due to Ceylon. Anyway, thank you for the good information!

Oops, my translation made a problem. I'll fix it quickly.

*My English is so bad that I rely on the translator to write, but I think the translator has caused a problem.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

To clarify what I wrote in Post 13.

The three options only apply to Prince of Wales and Repulse. The aircraft carrier goes to Ceylon to reinforce Force "A" of the Eastern Fleet.

 

[Username666]

To clarify what I wrote in Post 13.

The three options only apply to Prince of Wales and Repulse. The aircraft carrier goes to Ceylon to reinforce Force "A" of the Eastern Fleet.

Oops, I'm sorry.

 

[EwenS]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're send to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refuelling aircraft gas based on the other options.

I don't understand your last sentence.

For what it's worth, according to sea-distances.org

1,567 miles Singapore to Colombo​

1,887 miles Singapore to Darwin​

2,220 miles Singapore to Perth​

Indomitable didn't make it to Singapore before it fell, but she did embark Hurricanes at Port Sudan in January 1942 and on the 27th flew them to Batavia from a position south of Sumatra and then steamed to Trincomalee where she refuelled. That's according to naval-history.net which also says.

March 1942 - Diverted on passage to Java and took second batch of Hurricanes to Ceylon to reinforce existing air defence resources. Re-embarked own aircraft.

HMS Indomitable, British aircraft carrier, WW2

At one point in 1942 the Eastern Fleet had 3 aircraft carriers (Formidable, Illustrious and Indomitable) based in Ceylon.

To embark those 48 partially disassembled Hurricanes at Port Sudan in Jan 1942, she left half her air group at Aden. On completion of the first run she spent a fortnight at Trincomalee (2-16 Feb) before sailing to Aden to swap the half airgroup aboard for the other half ashore before embarking another 48 partially disassembled Hurricanes at Port Sudan destined for Java. This time she was diverted to Ceylon flying them off on 6/7 March. After another 9 days at Trincomalee she sailed back to Aden to collect the other half of her air group. She then joined the rest of the Fleet at Addu Atoll on 24 March.

Indomitable arrived at Cape Town on 31 Dec 1941. She left Mombasa on 9 July 1942 after participating in Operation Ironclad (invasion of Madagascar in May 1942) for Durban, Cape Town, Freetown & Gibraltar to participate in the Operation Pedestal convoy operation to resupply Malta.

Illustrious & Formidable had been refitting in the US in late 1941. On 12 Dec they sailed for Britain but collided en route in heavy seas and needed repairs and delaying their redeployment east. They also needed radar and fighter control updates and to collect their new air groups, including the first folding wing Martlet Mk.II (Illustrious ferried some of these aircraft on her transatlantic voyage).

Formidable left Britain on 17 Feb 1942, arrived Cape Town on 10 March and Colombo on 24 March. She remained in the IO until 30 Aug when she sailed for home and a short refit before participating in Operation Torch.

Illustrious, the more badly collision damaged of the pair, finally left Britain on 23 March 1942, arriving in South Africa at the end of April in time to participate in Operation Ironclad. She remained in the IO until Jan 1943 when she returned home to refit.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

To clarify what I wrote in Post 13.

The three options only apply to Prince of Wales and Repulse. The aircraft carrier goes to Ceylon to reinforce Force "A" of the Eastern Fleet.

Oops, I'm sorry.

There's no need for you to apologise. I was clarifying to everyone.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

If Prince of Wales and Repulse weren't sunk on 10th December 1941 and remain in the East Indies there's a good chance that they would have been sunk by the time Singapore fell.

They might be sunk in an air raid on Singapore. This is a quote from the copy of The War at Sea, Volume 2 on Hyperwar.

By the end of January Singapore was under constant and heavy air bombardment, and the naval base could not continue to function. Preparations were made to destroy the immense quantities of stores, and to deny the enemy use of its facilities; but when the island fell much was actually left intact. Warships which had been refitting were towed away, but the big floating dock could not be removed and had to be scuttled. This great base, the only one on which we had expended any considerable money between the wars, was then closed. From the 3rd of February onwards shipping was heavily bombed in the approaches to Singapore and in the harbours. By the 9th the Japanese had gained a foothold on the island, and the inward flow of British reinforcements was stopped. Three days later all possible ships were cleared from the harbours, taking with them many persons who were not required for the defence of the fortress. These were the last ships to reach safety.

Furthermore, it's probable that the IJN would have reinforced their naval forces in the area with battleships & some or all of the Kido Butai to eliminate the British capital ships.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Darwin and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

Edit 30.11.22

There's a mistake in that. When I wrote Darwin I meant Perth.

This is a personal view, but if the fleet survived because of the carrier being deployed in Force Z, I think they probably would have gone to Australia. Because I don't think it'll be possible to get refuelling aircraft gas based on the other options.

This is another quote from the copy of The War at Sea Volume 2 on Hyperwar and is about the strength of the British Eastern Fleet towards the end of March 1942.

In spite of the acute difficulties of these anxious days the Admiralty had by the end of March scraped together a force which on paper looked substantial. Admiral Somerville arrived at Colombo on the 26th of that month, and he then took over command of the Eastern Fleet from Admiral Layton. His fleet consisted of the two large carriers Indomitable and Formidable, the small carrier Hermes, the battleships Warspite (recently returned from repairing battle damage received off Crete in America), Resolution, Ramillies, Royal Sovereign and Revenge, two heavy and five light cruisers (including the Dutch Heemskerck), sixteen destroyers and seven submarines. It was fully realised that in this vast theatre maritime air power would be of critical importance, and the Admiralty had done its best to meet the need by giving to Somerville a large proportion of our surviving carriers. None the less his air element was not nearly strong enough to deal with the main Japanese striking forces, whose power and efficiency had been demonstrated all too convincingly. His three carriers had between them only some fifty-seven strike aircraft and three dozen fighters. Furthermore, there were insufficient shore-based long-range reconnaissance aircraft, and almost no shore-based air striking forces. If Admiral Nagumo's carrier force came into the Indian Ocean it would heavily outnumber Somerville's air strength. Nor was that the end of his deficiencies. The R-class battleships were old, slow and ill-protected, and might well prove more of a liability than an asset; many of the cruisers were also old and unmodernised, and some of the destroyers were in urgent need of refitting. Lastly, the state of his main bases at Colombo, Trincomalee and Addu Atoll was such as might well cause any Commander-in-Chief concern; and his fleet was far from being adequately trained to undertake co-ordinated and intricate operations.

That's a grand total of 3 aircraft carriers, 5 battleships, 7 cruisers, 16 destroyers and 7 submarines.

He divided his fleet into a fast division (Indomitable, Formidable, Warspite, and the cruisers Cornwall, Emerald and Enterprise), and a slow division consisting of the R-class battleships and the remaining cruisers. His destroyers were shared about equally between the two divisions. The fast division was Force "A" and the slow division Force "B".

The Eastern Fleet was reinforced by the aircraft carrier Illustrious in April 1942. However, she didn't arrive at Ceylon until late May/early June (and the Fleet's strength was still 3 aircraft carriers because Hermes was sunk on 9th April) but in the meantime took part in Operation Ironclad. The battleship Valiant arrived in August 1942. The source for both was naval-history.net.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Part of Post 13

If they're still operational [i.e. Prince of Wales & Repulse] when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Perth and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

As this is Alternative History all the warships in the ABDA command should have been evacuated to Australia or Ceylon in late-January/early-February 1942 with Prince of Wales and Repulse for all the good they did defending the "Malay Barrier" in the "Real World".

 

[uk 75]

I've seen this argued every-which-way on numerous forums, heard it war-gamed by experts and 'experts'...

Worst case, SINKEX: all three are sunk, but the Japanese lose half their bombers.
Best case, DUCK-SHOOT: all three take modest damage, but those bombers get mauled.
Probably, LADY-LUCK: the bombers get mauled, but enough damage for the RN to be left sucking their teeth at how Effin' badly it could so easily have gone...

I think it'll probably be between Duck-Shoot and Lady Luck. Because there wasn't a single fighter in the Japanese Navy's Fleet Air Arm at that time.

By the way, what's Effin'?

Effin is believed to refer to the exploits of a minor British aristocrat during the French Revolution

Carry On Chopping.... - British Classic Comedy

Carry On Don’t Lose Your Head – 1966 “Carry On Chopping….” screams Kenneth Williams in a classic line from the thirteenth instalment of the hugely successful film series. Produced on a £200,000 budget, this time the Carry On team turn their attentions to the French Revolution, with a send up...

www.britishclassiccomedy.co.uk

and so is another form of bloody.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Part of Post 13 again.

If they're still operational when British naval forces were evacuated from Singapore there are three alternatives.

1. They're sent to Java and are sunk in a "Battle of the Java Sea on Steroids" in which the ABDA force was reinforced by Prince of Wales & Repulse and the Japanese were reinforced by Mutsu & Nagato.
2. They're sent to Ceylon and reinforce "Force A" of the Eastern Fleet.
3. They're sent to Perth and find their to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of Coral Sea.

This is inspired by Post 38 and is a combination of Options 2 and 3.

ABDAs ships are withdrawn at the end of January/beginning of February 1942.

Houston, Perth & the American destroyers are sent to Perth. They find their way to Sydney in time to take part in the Battle of the Coral Sea. Houston & Perth serve in the Guadalcanal Campaign.

Prince of Wales & Repulse plus the British & Dutch cruisers & destroyers are sent to Ceylon and the R class battleships are sent to Alexandria to reinforce the Mediterranean Fleet. Not having the R class means Somerville doesn't have to divide his ships into a slow force & a fast force so the aircraft carriers and the capital ships Prince of Wales, Repulse & Warspite have a much thicker screen of cruisers and destroyers ITTL than the aircraft carriers and Warspite had IOTL.

The R class battleships are used to "beef up" the escorts of the Alexandria to Malta convoys that sailed between March and August 1942.

• MW.10 in March. However, in common with the "real world" all the ships that got through to Malta were sunk after arrival.
• Operation Vigorous in June reaches Malta and Vian's force also escorts Harpoon the westbound convoy to Malta after it had passed the Sicilian Narrows.
• The dummy convoy in August that acted as a diversion for Operation Pedestal IOTL is a proper convoy ITTL which fights it's way to Malta and escorts the survivors of Pedestal to Malta after they have passed through the Sicilian Narrows.

Is that plausible?