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Grumman Pre-ATF & ATF Studies

Jemiba

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Two pictures of Grumman concepts, that to my opinion fell into this
theme, although no relation to ATF is explicitely mentioned in the advert
and the description :
(from Aviation Week 1976 1 and 10) :
 

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hesham

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flateric said:
Genesis of X-29 - first scetch by Nathan Kirschbaum, also shown in artist's rendering here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg576.html#msg576

And from Flightglobal;
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1981/1981%20-%201809.html?search=delta%20wing%20aircraft%20project%201981
 

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hesham

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Hi,

I know it was from NASA sketch,but it look like Grumman pre-ATF project.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840010096_1984010096.pdf
 

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hesham

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Also look like the Grumman designs,
 

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Sundog

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Actually the design Hesham just posted reminds me alot of the McDonnell-Douglas ATS concept.
 

elider

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It took me a long time to find it. This is the Grumman concept I modeled albeit withmany a guess at size etc. A book by Bill Gunston had an artist's concept of this design featured on the cover.
 

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Sundog

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flateric said:
Looks pretty like this one 'High/Dive' Grumman concept
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=106.msg1208#msg1208

Actually, the wind tunnel model pics you have, now that I've been reviewing this design, looks like a single tailed version of the Grumman twin tailed ATF RFP submissions shown in plan view on the first page of this thread.
 

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I saw most of these drawings grwoing up as a kid, and I always wondered how close to the real thing they would be. I also remember seeing one with a hoop concept for a wing, with the fuselage going through the center.
 

Antonio

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Grumman concept from a Spanish popular science magazine in the 80's
 

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flateric

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well, artist was presumably Spanish because of problems with national insignia placement...
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Identified as STAC, Supersonic Tactical Aircraft, late 1970s study for a supercruise strike fighter.

index.php
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Identified as final configuration from CDAF (Configuration and Design of an Advanced Fighter) studies, 1978

index.php
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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This is Grumman's "STOL Fighter" configuration, derived from the earlier ATTAC (Advanced Technologies for Tactical Aircraft) studies, which were ultimately derived from the CDAF configuration above. ATTAC wind tunnels models were tested by NASA with USAF participation and funding.
 

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Talos

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elider said:
It took me a long time to find it. This is the Grumman concept I modeled albeit withmany a guess at size etc. A book by Bill Gunston had an artist's concept of this design featured on the cover.

I'm quite interested in this design, it's a rather neat one. Are there any schematics (particularly side views) of this floating around anywhere?
 

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overscan said:
Identified as final configuration from CDAF (Configuration and Design of an Advanced Fighter) studies, 1978

index.php

So canards in front of the wing (all be it with a little dihedral) weren't considered an impediment to supersonic cruise. Very interesting. Quite a pretty plane too - pity about the Kitihawk type canope.

Cheers, Woody
 

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A model of the NASA/Grumman CDF and a drawing of a CDF configuration that appears to be a development of the design studies of the earlier CDAF. The "new" design is referenced from this paper, NASA Cr-3763.

I can't tell if they're the same aircraft, because it's difficult to determine how close the wing planforms match from those angles. The model is clearly not the earlier CDAF drawings we have and it does tend to match the isometric drawing below quite well.
 

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flateric

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pometablava said:
Grumman concept from a Spanish popular science magazine in the 80's
slightly better
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
Also look like the Grumman designs,

The Grumman pre-ATF.

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/File:L-85-6419.jpg
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Hesham, you should attach the larger version of the picture, or just put in the link.
 

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hesham

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OK my dear Paul;

and here is the link for RFC model;

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Additional_Photos_for_30_X_60_Full_Scale_Tunnel:_Other_Tests_2
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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1978 - Grumman Tribody

Source: http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/SupersonicPres.pdf
 

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AeroFranz

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Looks like Nathans Kirschbaum's concept discussed on page one of this thread.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Triton

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Grumman fighter concept photograph found on eBay

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USAF-Grumman-Fighter-Concept-Photo-/280867497105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416501e491

Does anyone recognize this concept? USAF? STOL? ATF?
 

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SOC

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Looks very similar to a jet described as a Grumman ATF concept shown on page 51 of Bill Gunston's Future Fighters from 1984.
 

GeorgeA

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STOL was an early ATF requirement that was dropped before the prototype phase to save weight and money.

Other things that fell by the wayside in that era were the supercruise speed target and integral IRST.
 

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Ok ........... I've neither heard or seen anything to do with this Grumman ADCA!!!! It must be one of the smallest Grumman fighter design I've seen in a long time (since F11F Tiger) It appears to have a lot of General Dynamics F-16 influence in it's rear fuselage design!
Would like to learn and see more :p

Regards
Pioneer
 

Jemiba

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Pioneer said:
It must be one of the smallest Grumman fighter design I've seen in a long time (since F11F Tiger)

Longer than the venerable F-14 is small ? ???

(I read the length as 21,45 meters)
 

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Grumman Advanced Stealthy Penetrator (GASP!) manufacturer's model, ca. 1978-1979
 

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flateric

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wow! thanks, John - and check these
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg8828.html#msg8828
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg21041.html#msg21041
 

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Thank you Grigory! What we need here is a search engine that recognizes airframe shapes on photos and paintings.
 

Stargazer2006

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PaulMM said:
The following are Grumman's RFP submissions from 1983

They are actually older, and appeared in a 1981 article from AW&ST.
I have extracted the text from the article and affixed it to each picture.
 

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