• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

General Dynamics E-3/E-5/E-7 VSTOL Fighters

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
General Dynamics E-3/E-5
 

Attachments

  • General-Dynamics-E-3.gif
    General-Dynamics-E-3.gif
    5.9 KB · Views: 1,146
  • General-Dynamics-E-5.gif
    General-Dynamics-E-5.gif
    5.4 KB · Views: 1,016

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
General Dynamics E-7
 

Attachments

  • e7.gif
    e7.gif
    24.3 KB · Views: 1,014
  • E-7.JPG
    E-7.JPG
    99.5 KB · Views: 1,096

Dronte

Argentinean ugly bird
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
96
Reaction score
25
It photographs of the wind tunnel model of the E-7 and outline of the operation of the power plant
(source:popular Mechanics edition Argentinean Nov. 1989)
 

Attachments

  • E7.jpg
    E7.jpg
    279.9 KB · Views: 1,040

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
General Dynamics E3 VTOL fighter using ejector lift

Source:

D. Koenig, F. Stoll and K. Aoyagi (NASA Ames Research Center) Application of Thrusting Ejectors to Tactical Aircraft Having Vertical Lift and Short-Field Capability AIAA article 81-2629
 

Attachments

  • GD-E3.jpg
    GD-E3.jpg
    53.6 KB · Views: 680

rousseau

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
315
Reaction score
10
This one was called E-7,
 

Attachments

  • NASA E-7A VTOL.jpg
    NASA E-7A VTOL.jpg
    175 KB · Views: 338

starviking

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
269
Jemiba said:
I once found this photo in the net, unfortunately I haven't
the link anymore. The E-7 seems to be based on a vectored
thrust engine .

The E-7 VTOL concept relied on a thrust deflector at the rear and Thrust Augmented Ejectors near the front.

Air was diverted from the rear of the engine to the front via a long pipe and ejected down - balancing the thrust deflected at the rear.

There are some NASA PDFs on featuring the E-7 on the web:

V/STOL and STOVL Aerodynamic Performance:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840014468_1984014468.pdf

VSTOL Concepts Past, Present and Future:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840014464_1984014464.pdf

Wave-Drag and High Speed Performance of Supersonic Fighter Configurations:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890000646_1989000646.pdf

Looks like a lot of interesting stuff in them - I just haven't had time for more than a quick browse.

Starviking
 

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,415
Reaction score
229
E-7 was yet another design intended to use exhaust-driven ejectors for vstol lift. After the fiasco of the XFV-12A, following on the failure of the XV-4A (it had to be rebuilt as the XV-4B with a battery of lift jets to do any vstol ops), you'd think people would finally realize that there's a fatal disconnect as you scale up from wind tunnel to full scale.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
E-2, E-3, E-4, E-5, E-6, E-7
 

Attachments

  • GD-E-7-production.jpg
    GD-E-7-production.jpg
    135.7 KB · Views: 274
  • GD-E-7-demonstrator.jpg
    GD-E-7-demonstrator.jpg
    131.6 KB · Views: 262
  • GD-E-6.jpg
    GD-E-6.jpg
    80.5 KB · Views: 233
  • GD-E-5.jpg
    GD-E-5.jpg
    43.6 KB · Views: 211
  • GD-E-4.jpg
    GD-E-4.jpg
    39.5 KB · Views: 240
  • GD-E-3-RR.jpg
    GD-E-3-RR.jpg
    126 KB · Views: 300
  • GD-E-3-DFE.jpg
    GD-E-3-DFE.jpg
    80.5 KB · Views: 274
  • GD-E-2.jpg
    GD-E-2.jpg
    72.1 KB · Views: 267

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
E-7 profiles and warload.

From GD NASA contractor report:

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/9840019625_1984019625.pdf
 

Attachments

  • GD-E-7-profiles.jpg
    GD-E-7-profiles.jpg
    145 KB · Views: 431
  • GD-E-7-production-warload.jpg
    GD-E-7-production-warload.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 353

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
Interesting angle here. Cranked wing suggests maybe E-3/DFE?
 

Attachments

  • E-7.jpg
    E-7.jpg
    47.3 KB · Views: 323

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,760
Reaction score
4,877
Hi,

and from Flightglobal;
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1988/1988%20-%200935.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1988/1988%20-%200639.html
 

Attachments

  • E-7.JPG
    E-7.JPG
    50.2 KB · Views: 227
  • untitled.JPG
    untitled.JPG
    74.4 KB · Views: 202

ysi_maniac

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
81
Reaction score
2
Source: Joint Strike Fighter by Bill Sweetman
 

Attachments

  • kscan_0037.jpg
    kscan_0037.jpg
    106.9 KB · Views: 232

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
From http://ails.arc.nasa.gov
 

Attachments

  • AC87-0372-143sm.jpg
    AC87-0372-143sm.jpg
    352.7 KB · Views: 1,025
  • AC89-0060sm.jpg
    AC89-0060sm.jpg
    100.6 KB · Views: 588
  • 77917main_AC88-0530-30.jpg
    77917main_AC88-0530-30.jpg
    300.1 KB · Views: 507

Skyraider3D

Aviation Artist
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
387
Reaction score
57
Website
www.aviationart.aero
Interesting NASA report: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19900002435_1990002435.pdf


Here are further General Dynamics STOVL fighter designs, which may be related to the above F-16 lookalike:
There appear to be many more reports related to General Dynamics STOVL fighter designs from around the 1980 period.


Thanks for moving my post! I suspected there would be a topic on the subject already, but didn't find it.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
4,720
NASA model of E-7

http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Additional_Photos_for_30_X_60_Full_Scale_Tunnel:_Other_Tests#E-7A
 

Attachments

  • L-85-5630.jpg
    L-85-5630.jpg
    532.9 KB · Views: 142
  • L-85-5629.jpg
    L-85-5629.jpg
    549.6 KB · Views: 148
  • L-85-5628.jpg
    L-85-5628.jpg
    526.8 KB · Views: 417
  • L-85-5627.jpg
    L-85-5627.jpg
    552.5 KB · Views: 462

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
644
Have these been added?? When I indexed all the pics at CRgis two months ago, I don't recall seeing these...
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,760
Reaction score
4,877
Hi,


was that from General dynamics E series ?.
 

Attachments

  • unknown.jpg
    unknown.jpg
    11.5 KB · Views: 145

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,148
Reaction score
1,287
it's just very poor artist's representation by David Palmer (Salamander Books 'An illustrated Guide...' series) of one of E-series
 

Stargazer2006

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,227
Reaction score
644
Apparently, the E-7 design continued to be studied after Lockheed's takeover of General Dynamics.

Here is a 1995 report describing the "E-7D, an ejector-augmentor powered-lift aircraft designed by Lockheed Fort Worth Company (LFWC)", subcontracting to General Electric Aircraft
Engines (GEAE). The E-7D is said to differ from the earlier E-7A in details of the propulsion system, and having a more complex engine and a DMICS-based flight-control system.

Moving Base Simulation of an Integrated Flight and Propulsion Control System for an Ejector-Augmenter STOVL Aircraft in Hover, June 1995
NASA Technical Memorandum 108867, NASA Ames Research Center
 

Attachments

  • E-7D three views.gif
    E-7D three views.gif
    26.4 KB · Views: 213
  • E-7D arrangement of propulsive nozzles and RCS nozzles.gif
    E-7D arrangement of propulsive nozzles and RCS nozzles.gif
    25.8 KB · Views: 231

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,876
Reaction score
366
Interesting angle here. Cranked wing suggests maybe E-3/DFE?

I just read this post. That appears to me to be a modified F-16XL converted into a demonstrator for the program, rather than building an entirely new airframe.
 

Fluff

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
491
Reaction score
270
Jemiba said:
I once found this photo in the net, unfortunately I haven't
the link anymore. The E-7 seems to be based on a vectored
thrust engine .

The E-7 VTOL concept relied on a thrust deflector at the rear and Thrust Augmented Ejectors near the front.

Air was diverted from the rear of the engine to the front via a long pipe and ejected down - balancing the thrust deflected at the rear.

There are some NASA PDFs on featuring the E-7 on the web:

V/STOL and STOVL Aerodynamic Performance:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840014468_1984014468.pdf

VSTOL Concepts Past, Present and Future:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840014464_1984014464.pdf

Wave-Drag and High Speed Performance of Supersonic Fighter Configurations:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890000646_1989000646.pdf

Looks like a lot of interesting stuff in them - I just haven't had time for more than a quick browse.

Starviking
Somewhat surprised in the past present document, they describe the AV8B, the key feature(to me) is the front nozzles are cold, the rear are hot - doesn't get a mention.

If your job is to summarise different ideas that seems worth mentioning.

This E7 routing hot air forward then down, seems like a lot of work, those ducts look draggy. Appreciate it was POC.
 

asiscan

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
50
Reaction score
23
I
Interesting angle here. Cranked wing suggests maybe E-3/DFE?

I just read this post. That appears to me to be a modified F-16XL converted into a demonstrator for the program, rather than building an entirely new airframe.
Yes seems to be a vestigial feature from the F-16E/"SCAMP" and later the "XL". The E-7A routed cool fan air forwards to the wing root ejectors, while the E-7D used a mixed flow (cool bypass air and hot core air) for the same effect.. nothing. Claims that the ejector could increase the fan flow by 50% seem (I say hesitantly) - overblown.. Sounds too much like a repetition ofthe failings of the XV-12A. The magical "entrainment" effect and getting more from less scuttled many concepts, particulary the Avro Canada efforts of the 1950-60. Even so, a very interesting concept if it could work.
 
Last edited:

asiscan

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
50
Reaction score
23
Nice find Hesham! Thanks. All the pictures I have seen of the E-7 have never shown wing twist.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned but what I have found is:

- E-7A: Part of US/Canadian ejector program. With Rolls-Royce "Spey" engine (possibly RB-168-25R Mk-202/3).
- E-7B: Part of US/Canadian ejector program. With General Electric F110 engine. Aft fan nozzle deleted.
- E-7C: Mixed fan and core engine air flow. Axisymmetric gimballed core stream nozzle directly aft of vectoring lift nozzle.
- E-7D: Mixed fan and core engine air flow. 2 dimensional, convergent-divergent vectoring aft nozzle directly aft of vectoring lift nozzle.

Of course these were all just proposed static research examples.
 
Last edited:

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
1,174
... E-7A: Part of US/Canadian ejector program. With Rolls-Royce "Spey" engine (possibly RB-168-25R Mk-202/3)...

Under the US/Canada Focused Ejector Technology Program, the de Havilland division of Boeing Canada built a full-scale wind tunnel model of the E-7A. As you say, it was that model which had powered generated by "a Rolls-Royce 'Spey' engine obtained from a previous research program."*

So, the Spey was something that NASA had in stock. Rather than ex-RAF Phantom engines, the powerplant would more likely be the Spey MK 801-SF (Split Flow) - a Spey Mk 611 previously modified by Rolls-Royce (Canada) for NASA's AWJSRA (V/STOL Buffalo) programme. Removing that engine's transition section, colander-plate connector, and bifurcated Pegasus Mk.5 nozzles wouldn't have been difficult.

BTW: the plan for the full-scale powered wind tunnel model was to return it to DHC for a rebuild into a Phase II configuration with an F110 replacing the Spey and a 2D-CD nozzle to represent the E-7D rather than an E-7A.

* Configuration E-7 Supersonic Fighter/Attack Technology Program, John E. Jenista & David S. Bodden, General Dynamics Fort Worth Division, 1988, page 3
 

asiscan

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
50
Reaction score
23
... E-7A: Part of US/Canadian ejector program. With Rolls-Royce "Spey" engine (possibly RB-168-25R Mk-202/3)...

Under the US/Canada Focused Ejector Technology Program, the de Havilland division of Boeing Canada built a full-scale wind tunnel model of the E-7A. As you say, it was that model which had powered generated by "a Rolls-Royce 'Spey' engine obtained from a previous research program."*

So, the Spey was something that NASA had in stock. Rather than ex-RAF Phantom engines, the powerplant would more likely be the Spey MK 801-SF (Split Flow) - a Spey Mk 611 previously modified by Rolls-Royce (Canada) for NASA's AWJSRA (V/STOL Buffalo) programme. Removing that engine's transition section, colander-plate connector, and bifurcated Pegasus Mk.5 nozzles wouldn't have been difficult.

BTW: the plan for the full-scale powered wind tunnel model was to return it to DHC for a rebuild into a Phase II configuration with an F110 replacing the Spey and a 2D-CD nozzle to represent the E-7D rather than an E-7A.

* Configuration E-7 Supersonic Fighter/Attack Technology Program, John E. Jenista & David S. Bodden, General Dynamics Fort Worth Division, 1988, page 3
Thanks for clarifying Apophenia.
I wasn't sure about the "Spey" model, but i've concluded that either way the rolls-royce rig wold need modding..
just found it (RR Spey 801-SF) here:

 
Last edited:
Top