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Favorite giant airplane project

What is your favorite unbuilt giant airplane of the pre-1945 period?


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Vahe Demirjian

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This is a poll intended to gauge what your favorite giant airplane project of the pre-1945 period is. The ANT-26 is often seen as the largest Soviet warplane project of the pre-1945 era, but the Germans in WW1 envisaged a monster bomber with a 479 foot span and we now know that Consolidated and Boeing in WW2 conceived rival flying wing designs to the XB-35 with wingspans of 288 and 240 feet respectively.
 

Schneiderman

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Mostly not so much unbuilt as unbuildable
 

Iron Felix

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(from "Superbombovozi Stalina")
In early 1930th projected more monstruosly bombers, than TB-6/ANT-26 and ANT-28.
TB-7 project (not Pe-8 - it's other project) - span ~200 metres (~650 foot), 8x2000hp engines, 30 t bombs on range 1200 km or 15 t on range 2400 km, and full weight to 150 ton.
STB (SverhTyazholy Bombardirovshik - Superheavy bomber) - bigger than TB-7, 25 t bombs on range 2500 km, I haven't data about span, but, bigger than TB-7.
 
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Vahe Demirjian

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(from "Superbombovozi Stalina")
In early 1930th projected more monstruosly bombers, than TB-6/ANT-26 and ANT-28.
TB-7 project (not Pe-8 - it's other project) - span ~200 metres (~650 foot), 8x2000hp engines, 30 t bombs on range 1200 km or 15 t on range 2400 km, and full weight to 150 ton.
STB (SverhTyazholy Bombardirovshik - Superheavy bomber) - bigger than TB-7, 25 t bombs on range 2500 km, I haven't data about span, but, bigger than TB-7.
Are there any sketches of the 656-foot span bomber or the STB? I could barely fathom the notion of a Soviet design for a 600+ foot span heavy bomber, but it's known that the USSR didn't build large strategic bombers in huge numbers given its emphasis on tactical aviation in WW2.
 

Iron Felix

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(from "Superbombovozi Stalina")
In early 1930th projected more monstruosly bombers, than TB-6/ANT-26 and ANT-28.
TB-7 project (not Pe-8 - it's other project) - span ~200 metres (~650 foot), 8x2000hp engines, 30 t bombs on range 1200 km or 15 t on range 2400 km, and full weight to 150 ton.
STB (SverhTyazholy Bombardirovshik - Superheavy bomber) - bigger than TB-7, 25 t bombs on range 2500 km, I haven't data about span, but, bigger than TB-7.
Are there any sketches of the 656-foot span bomber or the STB? I could barely fathom the notion of a Soviet design for a 600+ foot span heavy bomber, but it's known that the USSR didn't build large strategic bombers in huge numbers given its emphasis on tactical aviation in WW2.
In early 1930th in USSR created programm "about air fleet". By this programm, needed builted huge fleet, for destroying navy, bases, plants. TB-4, TB-4MG, TB-6, TB-7, STB - special bombers, TB-8 and TB-9 - universal, for paratroopers. Based on TB-3 created a "cruisers", for escort of heavy bomber, and, TB-3 reclassifited from heavy bomber to medium bomber. This programm was very heavy and difficult for USSR, and projects TB-7, TB-8, TB-9, STB was closed. But, in "small" version of programm, implied a huge air fleet, 96 TB-6, 196 TB-4 and more TB-3, to 1937-1939. But, to 1935 this programm was closed.
Also, for TB-3 created assault weapons - "We need a heavy assault airplane". Constructed TB-3 with 76.2 mm front guns, in three version - 3 x M1927 short-barrel guns, 2 x M1927 and 1 x M1931 high-velocity AA gun, 3 x M1931. Also, created heavy ROFS-203 rockets, "super-Il-2" :)
In early 1930th analogical huge programms created for navy - giant gibrid cruiser-carriers, superbattleships (16x18", 9x20", 6x21" guns), underwater cruisers in 5000+ tons - and for land forces - many types of tanks, from 15 to 600 tons, self-propelled 180, 203, 305, 406 mm cannons, 305, 400, 500 mm hovitzers.
USSR "perebolel" (got sick) of megalomania in 1930th, and in WW2 produced most effective machines for total war. Stalin wasn't a Soviet Hitler :)
 

hesham

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Thank you Iron,and welcome aboard,

do you have any more Info about TB-7,TB-8,TB-9 & STB or drawings ?,from a French Jets magazine,they said
the series reached TB-12 ?!.
 

Iron Felix

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Thank you Iron,and welcome aboard,

do you have any more Info about TB-7,TB-8,TB-9 & STB or drawings ?,from a French Jets magazine,they said
the series reached TB-12 ?!.
I haven't drawings of this projects. Name "TB-7" in 1931 was assigned to other machine - ANT-42/Pe-8. Maybe, drawings not created - this projects was closed very soon - Comissariat of Heavy Industry said: "We can't put in plan airplanes, bigger than TB-6". TB-8 and TB-9 was support for TB-7 and STB, and this project also closed - later, special universal transport plane projected based on TB-6.
 

royabulgaf

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Considering the technology of the 30s, the square-cube law, and the law of diminishing returns, this would be unflyable, and I doubt it could stand without the wings collapsing. You would need constant in-flight maintenance of the engines, and God help you if you have to land it somewhere unexpected. In a rational world, everyone in the organization who signed off on this should have been fired.
 

gabrielorosco

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Does anybody has images of those two? They are unknow to me. Thanks!!

Junkers flying wing airliner (400+ foot span)
Adlershof airplane (479 foot span)
 

Vahe Demirjian

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Does anybody has images of those two? They are unknow to me. Thanks!!

Junkers flying wing airliner (400+ foot span)
Adlershof airplane (479 foot span)
A drawing of the 479-foot span Adlershof bomber is featured in Bill Gunston's Giants of the Sky, and this book has info about the Junkers flying wing airliner.
 

richard

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The ten "Adlershof" projects were shown in the excellent +++ "The German Giants" by G.W Haddow and Peter M. Grosz .
You can find them here : just use the search button : "Adlershof" , go to "German WW1 bomber projects" page 2 , #74&#75 .

For the Junkers , use the search button , "Junkers Flying Wing" ; then "Junkers projects and prototypes 1919-1939" #1
 
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Avimimus

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To be honest, in terms of pre-war projects I'm kindof partial to the Rumpler Transozeanflugzeug of the 1930s... I also enjoy the Zepplin-Lindau RS-III (although it isn't actually that big outside of its original context)
 

Avimimus

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Also, for TB-3 created assault weapons - "We need a heavy assault airplane". Constructed TB-3 with 76.2 mm front guns, in three version - 3 x M1927 short-barrel guns, 2 x M1927 and 1 x M1931 high-velocity AA gun, 3 x M1931. Also, created heavy ROFS-203 rockets, "super-Il-2" :)
In early 1930th analogical huge programms created for navy - giant gibrid cruiser-carriers, superbattleships (16x18", 9x20", 6x21" guns), underwater cruisers in 5000+ tons - and for land forces - many types of tanks, from 15 to 600 tons, self-propelled 180, 203, 305, 406 mm cannons, 305, 400, 500 mm hovitzers.
USSR "perebolel" (got sick) of megalomania in 1930th, and in WW2 produced most effective machines for total war. Stalin wasn't a Soviet Hitler :)
Any sources on the ROFS-203? Or the naval program? Those are new to me!
 

Vahe Demirjian

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Would anyone be interested in creating an overlay diagram showing the Tupolev ANT-26/TB-6, Boeing Model 404, 479-foot span Adlershof bomber, Consolidated flying wing bomber (288 foot span), Douglas XB-19, and Tupolev ANT-20? I just wanted to ask because it's now clear to me that the Boeing 404 flying wing was a monster compared to the XB-35.
 

Iron Felix

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Also, for TB-3 created assault weapons - "We need a heavy assault airplane". Constructed TB-3 with 76.2 mm front guns, in three version - 3 x M1927 short-barrel guns, 2 x M1927 and 1 x M1931 high-velocity AA gun, 3 x M1931. Also, created heavy ROFS-203 rockets, "super-Il-2" :)
In early 1930th analogical huge programms created for navy - giant gibrid cruiser-carriers, superbattleships (16x18", 9x20", 6x21" guns), underwater cruisers in 5000+ tons - and for land forces - many types of tanks, from 15 to 600 tons, self-propelled 180, 203, 305, 406 mm cannons, 305, 400, 500 mm hovitzers.
USSR "perebolel" (got sick) of megalomania in 1930th, and in WW2 produced most effective machines for total war. Stalin wasn't a Soviet Hitler :)
Any sources on the ROFS-203? Or the naval program? Those are new to me!
616063
ROFS-203 under TB-3 (from "Superbombovozi Stalina")
Also projected 132 mm and 245 mm rockets for TB-3.
ROFS - Reaktivni Oskolochno-Fugasniy Snaryad (actually, HEP rocket). Army project, "heavy assault plane".
 
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borovik

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Also, for TB-3 created assault weapons - "We need a heavy assault airplane". Constructed TB-3 with 76.2 mm front guns, in three version - 3 x M1927 short-barrel guns, 2 x M1927 and 1 x M1931 high-velocity AA gun, 3 x M1931. Also, created heavy ROFS-203 rockets, "super-Il-2" :)
In early 1930th analogical huge programms created for navy - giant gibrid cruiser-carriers, superbattleships (16x18", 9x20", 6x21" guns), underwater cruisers in 5000+ tons - and for land forces - many types of tanks, from 15 to 600 tons, self-propelled 180, 203, 305, 406 mm cannons, 305, 400, 500 mm hovitzers.
USSR "perebolel" (got sick) of megalomania in 1930th, and in WW2 produced most effective machines for total war. Stalin wasn't a Soviet Hitler :)
Any sources on the ROFS-203? Or the naval program? Those are new to me!
View attachment 616063
ROFS-203 under TB-3 (from "Superbombovozi Stalina")
Also projected 132 mm and 245 mm rockets for TB-3.
ROFS - Reaktivni Oskolochno-Fugasniy Snaryad (actually, HEP rocket). Army project, "heavy assault plane".
probably not 245, but 254 mm
also worked out missile bombs caliber 305 mm.
 

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Dilandu

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Ok, about the Breguet 1000-ton plane:

Рис2.png
616495

It was part of several 1941-1945 design studies of unconventional "stratospheric" air liner/cargo aircraft, labeled Bre.850/851. There were three of them: 230 tons, 500 tons and 1000 tons.

All three were twin-hulled aircraft with boom tails and pressurized wing cabins, which also served as a main structure elements of the wings. The passenger cabins were supposed to be put inside those pressurized wing cabins, while hulls were left for crew cabins and unpressurized cargo hulls. It was assumed that such unconventional scheme would allow to save a lot of weight, since pressurized passenger cabins were also providing the wing longitudinal strength.

All projects relied on the Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors (or HS 24Z tandems) of 1200-1600 hp in large numbers.

The 230-ton plane (1941) was supposed to carry either 200 passengers, or 96 passengers and 30 tons of cargo. It was powered by 28 Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors in seven quadruple mounts on the wing. It was the only one of which a wind tunnel model was build and some actual development committed.

The 500-ton plane (circa 1942)
was supposed to carry about 500 passengers, and was powered by either 60 Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors, or 30 Hispano-Suiza 24Z tandem motors.

The 1000-ton plane (circa 1942)
was supposed to carry 710 passengers (and a crew of 30), and 30 tons of cargo, or just 101 tons of cargo. It was the same design as previous ones - twin-hulled with pressurized wing cabins - but much larger, with wingspan about 192 meters and surface area of 3700 m2. Empty, it weighted 495 tons, fully loaded (including 450000 liters of fuel) - 1000 tons.

This flying giant was supposed to be powered with 120 (!) Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors, placed in fifteen octuple mounts along the wing.

All Bre.850/851 projects seems to be abandoned after 1945.
 

gabrielorosco

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Ok, about the Breguet 1000-ton plane:

View attachment 616494
View attachment 616495

It was part of several 1941-1945 design studies of unconventional "stratospheric" air liner/cargo aircraft, labeled Bre.850/851. There were three of them: 230 tons, 500 tons and 1000 tons.

All three were twin-hulled aircraft with boom tails and pressurized wing cabins, which also served as a main structure elements of the wings. The passenger cabins were supposed to be put inside those pressurized wing cabins, while hulls were left for crew cabins and unpressurized cargo hulls. It was assumed that such unconventional scheme would allow to save a lot of weight, since pressurized passenger cabins were also providing the wing longitudinal strength.

All projects relied on the Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors (or HS 24Z tandems) of 1200-1600 hp in large numbers.

The 230-ton plane (1941) was supposed to carry either 200 passengers, or 96 passengers and 30 tons of cargo. It was powered by 28 Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors in seven quadruple mounts on the wing. It was the only one of which a wind tunnel model was build and some actual development committed.

The 500-ton plane (circa 1942) was supposed to carry about 500 passengers, and was powered by either 60 Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors, or 30 Hispano-Suiza 24Z tandem motors.

The 1000-ton plane (circa 1942) was supposed to carry 710 passengers (and a crew of 30), and 30 tons of cargo, or just 101 tons of cargo. It was the same design as previous ones - twin-hulled with pressurized wing cabins - but much larger, with wingspan about 192 meters and surface area of 3700 m2. Empty, it weighted 495 tons, fully loaded (including 450000 liters of fuel) - 1000 tons.

This flying giant was supposed to be powered with 120 (!) Hispano-Suiza 12Z motors, placed in fifteen octuple mounts along the wing.

All Bre.850/851 projects seems to be abandoned after 1945.
Thanks for these precious info! Do you have front view of the 1000 ton variant and it's lenght? The concept of passenger cabins on the wings looks like the spanloader concept. Was it meant to have windows in the wing trailing edge?
 

gabrielorosco

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The tupolev ANT 28 was bigger than the Tupolev ANT-26/TB-6? Does anybody has any image of the 28?
 
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