F-14 + AIM 54 in fleet defense

[CIC-TAO]

I remember reading in Proceedings about the joint operations between the Air Force’s E-3 and F-14(has image). Does anyone remember which issue that was?
As for joint Navy-Air Force operations, I recall there was a memorandum signed in the 1980s.

 

[NMaude]

HARM already existed and was optimized for the role. Modifying Phoenix for the role would require an additional expenditure. And even without the need for AWG-9, hanging Phoenix on a Hornet would be a significant project. Even under the wings on the Tomcat, it has a specialized pylon not used for other ordnance.

And what's the point? Carrier magazines are finite. You don't carry a bunch of large but obsolete missiles just in case. You carry as many of the modern, up to date ones as you can cram in there, in general.

I wasn't thinking just of a potential AGM-54 being used by the USN but also the USAF, the F-15 could easily carry two of them.

 

[TomS]

I wasn't thinking just of a potential AGM-54 being used by the USN but also the USAF, the F-15 could easily carry two of them.

1) The USAF was never going to use ex-USN surplus missiles when it also had its own solutions in hand. They were quite happy with the many, many HARMs they already had, as well as a growing variety of hard kill weapons for defense suppression (JSOW, JDAMs, etc.)

2) The USAF had already considered and rejected the F-15 for the defense suppression role. Like it or not, the Air Force solution to SEAD/DEAD was the F-16CJ with HARM.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Last year (I can't remember which thread it was in) someone had posted a quarterly technical progress report from YT from the lates 60s concerning the development of the AIM-54. Now one of the milestones in that video was the first guided launch where the AIM-54 prototype homed in onto a Firebee drone using the its' seekers' HOJ mode, so it occurred to me that after the AIM-54C's were retired why weren't they converted into AGM-54 anti-radiation missiles instead of being scrapped and recycled?

Likely, size and weight.

 

[Dilandu]

Last year (I can't remember which thread it was in) someone had posted a quarterly technical progress report from YT from the lates 60s concerning the development of the AIM-54. Now one of the milestones in that video was the first guided launch where the AIM-54 prototype homed in onto a Firebee drone using the its' seekers' HOJ mode, so it occurred to me that after the AIM-54C's were retired why weren't they converted into AGM-54 anti-radiation missiles instead of being scrapped and recycled?

Several reasons. First, there were already AGM-88 HARM which were dedicated anti-radiation weapons, and more capable in that role.

Second - the AIM-54 was not compatible with anything but F-14 fire control system. So the hypothetical anti-radiation AGM-54 would be only used by F-14, which were't exactly well-adapted for SEAD job. Some kind of adapters PROBABLY could be designed to allow F/A-18 to use it... but why bother, if AGM-88 was available?

Third - the AIM-54 was costly, complex to maintain, and "uncommon" missile. No one besides USN and Iran ever used it. So maintaining the AIM-54 would require having a lot of highly trained personnel specifically to service those missiles. Hardly a good idea, considering that such trained specialists are always in short supply.

 

[Standard]

Even the 80s-era SM-ER SAMs were very capable missiles (~100NM). I'm wondering if they were ever intended to be part of the outer air battle and how they interacted with F-14 tactics?

 

[Seragina]

Several reasons. First, there were already AGM-88 HARM which were dedicated anti-radiation weapons, and more capable in that role.

Second - the AIM-54 was not compatible with anything but F-14 fire control system. So the hypothetical anti-radiation AGM-54 would be only used by F-14, which were't exactly well-adapted for SEAD job. Some kind of adapters PROBABLY could be designed to allow F/A-18 to use it... but why bother, if AGM-88 was available?

Third - the AIM-54 was costly, complex to maintain, and "uncommon" missile. No one besides USN and Iran ever used it. So maintaining the AIM-54 would require having a lot of highly trained personnel specifically to service those missiles. Hardly a good idea, considering that such trained specialists are always in short supply.

Don'T forget the AGM-78 Standard ARM or AGM-45 Shrike at the time. All replced by Harm.
Standard might had been using the same tech as the phoenix.

Even the 80s-era SM-ER SAMs were very capable missiles (~100NM). I'm wondering if they were ever intended to be part of the outer air battle and how they interacted with F-14 tactics?

Back then they require illuminators so the number of simultaneous missiles was limited. Aegis was better but still limitted.
The F14 squadrons could launch a larger intercept volley given sufficient time.

 

[Dilandu]

Even the 80s-era SM-ER SAMs were very capable missiles (~100NM). I'm wondering if they were ever intended to be part of the outer air battle and how they interacted with F-14 tactics?

Mainly by ensuring that F-14 aren't on the same vector as targets & could not be accidentally targeted by SAM's.