• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Early German Projects & Prototypes

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
And on another site (http://www.precurseursaviation.com/auffm.htm) it is said Auff'm Ordt was French...
Le français Clément Auffm-Ordt associé à l'ingénieur M.Heeren dessine son premier avion en 1908. C'est un monoplan léger semblable à la Demoiselle de Santos Dumont. L'avion construit par Voisin est essayé à Buc.
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,020
Reaction score
196
As it principally was the name, not the aircraft, thath triggered my doubts, I did some googling.
The name "Auffm'Ordt" actually can be found in a kind search machine for names in Germany,
but all mentioned members of that family (if it was just a single family) lived (and died during
the 15th and 17th century. As I said before, the name is an old form of the German phrase
"am Ort" (at the place) and seems to have been modified to "Ortmann" as time passed.
But this search tool probably isn't fully complete, so maybe there were people with that
name still in Germany at the turn of the centuries. Nevertheless the theory, that it may have
been an emigrant living in Switzerland or France can well be viable, as during my search I read,
that names which were long extinct, as they had been modified in Germany, still survived in
other countries, as the original meaning didn't matter there. "Clement" certainly points to a
Frenchman. Maybe someone was mislead by the obvious German origin ?

Really strange (and somewhat great !), what themes come up, when you are researching
aviation history ! Would have never thought, that one day I would have a look into genealogy ! ;)
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
And the name of his assistant engineer Heeren sounds rather Dutch/Flemish...
But let's limit ourselves to aviation history :) :) :)
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Some comments on the list from Jane's 1910-1911:

Auff'm Ordt Monoplane

See my earlier comments on this Swiss/French/German(?) constructor.

Another piece of the puzzle: according to Lange Auff'm Ordt's first plane was built in 1908 by Franz Sido and tested in Rastatt (and contrary to other statements that it was built by Voisin in France and tested at Buc). All sources agree that it had a 35 hp REP engine.

Franz Sido built also an unsuccesful monoplane which he showed at ILA 1909. It had also a 35 hp REP… Coincidence? Was there indeed a relation between Auff'm Ordt and Sido?

Franz Sido obtained the German pilot's license n° 517 on 15.9.1913, and is unfortunately better known for his SS career during WW2...

Alexander Baumann

Unknown if his triplane ever flew.

Alexander Baumann of the TH Stuttgart later participated in het construction of the Zeppelin-Staaken R bomers.

Coler Monoplane

This is the FEG 1 form Flugmaschinen und Explosionsmotoren GmbH (FEG) in Berlin. It was a two seater monoplane of the "System Leutnant Coler". It flew very well in 1912.

Delfosse Monoplane

Built in 1909 by the Delfosse-Automobilfabrik in Köln-Niehl. It was a Blériot type monoplane with a 24 hp engine also of Delfosse construction. In 1910 Delfosse built another improved monoplane.
August Delfosse was interested in aviation since 1902, first with gliding flights. Later he built his own aero engine and two monoplanes.

Dorner Monoplane


The Dorner Flugzeug Gmbh in Johannisthal of the well known pioneer Hermann Dorner built a number of planes between 1909 and 1912.

The monoplane mentionned was certainly the T II which had an engine of Dorner's own construction.

"Ganz Gabrice Monoplanes"

Is "Gabrice" misidentification of Gabrisch? Gabrisch from Georgenberg near Weiden built a plane which "should have flown"…

And "Ganz" is possibly a misidentification of Dr. Paul Gans of München who announced the demonstration at ILA of a monoplane of his own costruction. Nothing more heard of seen of it…

Jatho Aeroplanes

Karl Jatho, the first German powered flight pioneer, doesn't need any comment. Jatho and later his Hannoversche Flugzeugwerke GmbH built more than a dozen aircraft between 1903 and 1913.

Kaiser Biplane

Unknown to me. One of the many who tried without succes and were forgotten by history?

A certain Johann Kaiser of Hanau built an unsuccesful aeroplane in the same period. Probably not the same. Hanau and Beuggen are far away, and Kaiser is a very common name.

Meschner Biplane

A Wright clone, but no further details. Certainly unsuccesful and rapidly forgotten.

Paul M. Neumann

It was apparently a tandem triplane and was unable to fly.

Schnädelbach & Berner

Again Jane's 1910-1911 appears to too positive: it was unable to fly…

Schnell Monoplane

Unknown to me. Probably one of the many cases of trial and error in those days…

Richard Scholz

Between 1906 and 1909 Richard Scholz made flight tests (first with hanggliders). Later (1911-1913) he built two succesfull monoplanes.

Otto Schubert Monoplane

The constructions of Otto Schubert were again trial and error. In his case only error…

Max Schuler

The well known pioneer Max Schuler built a number of monoplanes between 1910 and 1912 ("Max Schuler Aeroplan-Fabrik" in Berlin). Not always succesful… He built also some other aeroplanes for other constructors.

In 1912 Schuler became testpilot for Ago, and in 1915 for LFG.

Sternemann Helicopter

Once again Jane's 1910-1911 appears to too positive: it was unable to fly…

Dr. Karl Vollmoeller

What is called Volmoeller III was the first succesful aeroplane built by Karl Vollmoeller (it was indeed his third construction).

And what is called Volmoeller IV was also succesful, and had first an Anzani enine, and later a Gnome.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Cool,many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Thank you my dear Maveric,
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Boris Loutzkoy (Борис Луцкой) was a very interesting automobile and aircraft pioneer. You can find information on his aircraft in Vol. 1 of Shavrov's Istoriya and on the net on http://rusaviagold.narod.ru/HISTORY/lutskoi.htm (in Russian and with illustrations).
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Hi,


what was this Otto aircraft,and a project or not ?.


http://www.luftfahrt-bibliothek.de/zeitschrift-flugsport-oskar-ursinus-luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr/luftsport-luftfahrt-luftverkehr-flugsport-1916/zeitschrift-flugsport-1916-luftsport-luftverkehr-luftfahrt.htm
 

Attachments

Cy-27

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
519
Reaction score
15
Hans Grade Designs

Hans Grade was born in Köslin, Pomerania. He constructed several of his designs and in 1910 he established the first aviation school in Germany.

A Grade Monoplane carried Germany's first air mail, when pilot Pentz made a flight from Bork to Bruck in February 1912 with a small sack of mail in his lap. Although successful, Grade monoplanes did not become as famous as many contemporary European designs, and for this reason comparatively few were built.

His small aircraft company, founded with this money, did not survived the ramifications of the Treaty of Versailles of 1919.

The Grade Automobilwerke AG was closed in 1927 owing to financial difficulties. After the Nazi takeover in 1933 Grade tried, without success, to develop a new Volksflugzeug and in 1934 he undertook research projects for the German aircraft manufacturers.

In 1921 he established an automobile company called "Grade Automobilwerke AG", which produced small, 2 seater personal cars. One of his more radical ideas was to produce a car with no gearbox.

Hans Grade died in 1946 at the age of 67 in Borkheide. His legacy includes the Hans-Grade-Museum (Am Flugplatz, 14822 Borkheide).

Grade Types:

Type A (1906)

In 1906 he built the Grade Type A, an unsuccessful light aircraft which did not leave the ground.

Triplane (1908)

The pilot sat behind the small engine and the aeroplane had three wheels, one to the rear and two apparently through the lower wing. The wings were bout 2 feet (0.6 m) apart. The top wing was straight with the two lower wings curved up slightly at the end. Steering was by means of a rudder behind the main wings. It had a cruciform tail.

This design flew on a regular basis and Janes All The World Aircraft 1911-12 stated that it “was the first German machine to leave the ground” on 28 October 1908 when Grade successfully conducted his first motor-flight over Magdeburg.

The basis layout was adapted for the monoplane of 1909.

Monoplane (1909)

Developed from the earlier triplane design with the removal of the top and bottom wings. On the 17 August 1909 the first flight of the Grade Monoplane, named Libelle "Dragonfly", was made in Bork (now Borkheide).

In September 1909, he made the first recognized flight of a German designed, built and powered aeroplane from the Johannisthal Aerodrome in Berlin.

Grade had a mishap in late September 1909 at the Mars flying ground near Berlin when the airscrew detached when the monoplane was at 30 metres altitude. The aircraft crashed but the fall was cushioned by pine trees. Although badly damaged the simple design meant that the aircraft was repaired a few days later.

On 30 October 1909, flying the new monoplane design he won the 40.000 Reichsmark "Lanz-Preis der Lufte", for the first German to fly a figure of eight route in a German aircraft with German engine around two pylons 1,000 metres apart. Following his success Grade made four flights of around 5 minutes each the next day.

Although his first flights were little more than hops, by November 1909, he had logged a journey of 55 minutes duration with the monoplane design.

The design was refined, eventually ending up with a nacelle for the pilot replacing the seat hammock arrangement. Oyher early flyers built their own take on the original design including, Onigkeit, Riemay and Phoenix-Fliegerwerke mentioned in earlier posts.

On May 14, 1939 he re-flew his original monoplane from 1909, then 30 years old, at Berlin Tempelhof Airport for about 550 metres to celebrate his sixtieth birthday.

The monoplane had a tubular steel chassis with a single member which ran aft to support the tail. The aircraft had single spoke wheels forward and a smaller spoke tail-wheel under the tail. The landing gear had no springs or skids.

The pilots position was low down beneath the wing in a hammock seat. The used wing warping on the trailing edge. The main planes were strengthened by wire stays. The Grade monoplane featured a triangular vertical fin under a frame positioned just rear of the main tail planes.

The 24 h.p. engine weighed 35 kg (77 lb) ran the two-blade metal airscrew at 1,000 r.p.m. The propeller was directly attached to the crankshaft, Steering was via the elevator in the tail (which also contained a rudder) and control was via a hand lever.

General characteristics

Engine: Grade V-Type (24 hp) 4-cylinder air-cooled V-Type.
Wing span: 9.1 m (30 ft)
Wing area: 26.25 sq m (284 sq ft)
Wing chord: 2.9 m (9 ft 6 in)
Wing aspect ratio: 3.2 to 1
Tail area: 1.75 sq m (18 sq ft)
Fin area: 1.5 sq m (16 sq ft)
Gross weight: 204 kg (450 lb)
Power loading: 17 lb per h.p.
Wing loading: 1.5 lb per sq ft
Maximum speed: 70.81 km/h (44 mph)
Airscrew diameter: 1.5m (5 ft)

Sources:

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/grade.html
http://www.hans-grade.de/index.php?Hans_Grade_1910
Janes All The Worlds Aircraft 1911-12 (Janes – Reprint)
Zeit Fur Luftschiff Vol 13
Flight 2nd October 1909 , 6th November 1909 & 11 December 1909
Národní Technické Muzeum Data
Deutsche Bundesarchiv
 

Attachments

Cy-27

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
519
Reaction score
15
Some more images of the Grade Monoplane including a model in the Prague Technical Museum, special edition postal stamp issue from 1991, a modified Monoplane with a nacelle pod instead of the original hammock seat and a detailed view of the bracing arrangement.

Sources as in earlier post.
 

Attachments

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Dear Су-27, allow me to make some remarks.
All sources agree that the 1908 triplane was Grade’s first aircraft, but you mentions a 1906 “Type A” as his first (but unable to fly). As in early German aviation history all things are possible, what are your sources for this 1906 precursor?

From my usual German sources:

“Grade genealogy”

1908: Hans Grade begins building aircraft (triplane and Libelle) in Magdeburg.
1909: Hans Grade Flieger-Werke in Bork i.d. Mark.
1910: series construction of aircraft and engines, and Grade-Flugschule flying school.
1912/13: the flying school became more important than the aircraft production.
1914: with the beginning of WWI all aircraft production stopped; only reparations.
1 Jan 1917: Grade Flieger-Werke taken over by Aviatik.
Afterwards, Grade went into the automobile construction as stated by Су-27.

In all, Grade built ca. 80 aircraft.

List of Grade aircraft (unless otherwise stated all engines were own type built by Grade)

The different aircraft built by Grade are are a little confusing, but for most of them there are three basic types (A, B and C).

Dreidecker (1908). Triplane built in Magdeburg with 36 hp engine and 25 m² wings. Modified in Winter 1908/09: 50 m² wings.
Libelle (1909). Monoplane with 16/24 hp engine and a sort of hammock as seat. Wings 29 m². Grade was inspirered by the Santos-Dumont Libellule and took into account the lessons from his triplane.
Standard Libelle (1910). Libelle with small modifications (wings 25 m²). Built in series (by June 1910 already 7 built). One or two seater (passenger on the axe of the undercarriage).
Type A (1911). “Renntype” monoplane with 20 m² wings and 16/24 hp engine. Single seater.
Variant with 45 hp engine (Type A-2).
Type B (1911). Monoplane evolved from the Libelle (wings 30 m²). Two-seater with 16/24 hp engine.
Variants with 45 hp and 70 hp engines (variously called Type B neu and Type B-2).
Unsuccesfull floatplane variant of the Type B (1911).
Type C (1911). “Passagiertype”. Two or three seater monoplane with 30/45 hp engine and 45 m² wings.
Variant with 100 hp engine (Type C-2).
The Types A, B and C were constantly developed. From 1913 the three types were also delivered with a nacelle (“Carosserie”). In 1914 a typical “new” Type A had a 20/30 hp engine, Type B 30/45 hp and Type C 45/70 hp.
Militärtype (1912). Type B with nacelle and 24/36 hp engine offered to the military, but not accepted.
Type D (1912). Rumpfeindecker or Torpedorumpfmaschine. Two seater monoplane with seat in light metal fuselage and 40 hp engine. One built.
Type E (1912). Bigger Rumpfeindecker or Torpedorumpfmaschine. Two seater monoplane with seat in light metal fuselage and 100-110 hp engine. One built.
Schwalbe (1912). A Type B with wings in Taube style.
Sturzflugzeug (1913). Aerobatics monoplane for Oskar Tweer, derived from the Type D, with 45/70 hp engine. Second undercarriage above the wings.
Sturzflugzeug (1913). Smaller aerobatics monoplane for Fritz Jahn with 30/45 hp engine. Second undercarriage above the wings.
Langsamflugzeug (1914). Experimental monoplane (“Slow aircraft”), based on the Type B with 16/24 hp.
Renneindecker (1914). Monoplane evolved from the Militäreindecker 1912, with 60/100 hp engine. A 90/140 hp engine was planned but probably not realized.
Militäreindecker (1914). The Renneindecker 1914 with a 70-80 hp Gnome. Not accepted by the military.

As usual all remarks and additions are welcome!
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Amazing work my dear Tuizentfloot,and many thanks to my dear Cy-27.
 

Cy-27

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
519
Reaction score
15
Re: Grade 1906 design

Source: http://www.philaseiten.de/cgi-bin/index.pl?F=1&ST=2750&da=1&full=1

A stamp/postcard site referred to Grade having little success with aeroplane designs in 1906/07.

(Possible that my translation is poor)
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Dear Су-27, your translation was indeed correct, but allow me a small nuance. The text comes from a letter of the grandmother of the writer, who was the wife of one of Grade's collaborators. She writes that her husband (occupied in Grade's engine factory established in 1905) didn't like Grade's unsuccesfil aircraft projects of 1906/07. She writes clearly about projects (Flugzeugpläne) and not about actually built aircraft. In 1906/07 Grade was primarly occupied with engine construction and motorcycling, but it is possible that the first ideas which led to his 1908 triplane arose in those years...
I wonder if we can consider this letter as a serious source, so much the more that serious aviation historians all agree about Grade's aviation career.
By the way, many thanks for the hint to the website. I really enjoyed the collection of old postcards.
 

Cy-27

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
519
Reaction score
15
The 1906 date may be my typo as well for the early Grade, Tuizentfloot. I did a bit of digging and the book by D.A. Sobolev on early aircraft (ISBN 5217002980 Pervye proekty i konstruktsii - Рождение самолета : первые проекты и конструкции ) was one of the sources used for my initial notes years ago and it quotes a date of 1908, not 1906. The book has been filed (in my attic) but has now been found!

I enclose a scan of the entry for the type he calls the Grade-1.

Sorry about the image but the paper used was not of a good quality, but it does show the type with its large paddle-type propeller blades.
 

Attachments

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
I think we now agree, Су-27, and Sobolev is right (he’s a serious historian). The photograph of what he calls the Grade-1 is in fact the 1908 triplane.

Just one error or typo where he states B 1902 г. он начал строительство самолета. This is impossible: in 1902 Grade was still a student at the TH Charlottenburg, and after his studies in 1904 he began at first building his two-stroke engine which led to the foundation of his Motorenfabrik in 1905. Only in 1907 began his interest in aviation, and in Summer 1908 he began the construction of his triplane.

I also have a copy of Sobolev’s Рождение самолета, but I hadn’t seen it for years… Thanks to remind me…
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Tuizentfloot said:
Some comments on the list from Jane's 1910-1911:


[/b]Dorner Monoplane[/b]

The Dorner Flugzeug Gmbh in Johannisthal of the well known pioneer Hermann Dorner built a number of planes between 1909 and 1912.

The monoplane mentionned was certainly the T II which had an engine of Dorner's own construction.
My dear Tuizentfloot,

the Dorner had an aircraft called T-III;
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft28922.htm
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Indeed, and I translate what Lange has to say about this plane:

T III was a two seater TII with 40 hp NAG engine, also Körting or Dixi. On 9 June 1911 Georg Schendel crashed to his death in it. In December 1911 Robert Gsell demonstrated a T III with 55 hp Daimler D4F before the military, and they ordered a copy with stronger engine.

And this was the Militäreindecker of 1912 with 70 hp Daimler and with engine and seats covered. After this single copy the military lost interest (problems with the chain transmission).
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
OK and thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Dear hesham, something more about Hermann Dorner and his planes.

Hermann Dorner (1882-1963) studied at the Technische Hochschule Charlottenburg (as did Grade) and became Diplom-Ingenieur in 1906. Already during his studies he did his first soaring tests.

He built planes in the period 1908-1912. In 1910 he formed his unsuccessful (also due to accidents) firm Dorner Flugzeug GmbH in Johannisthal, which closed in 1913.

During WWI he worked for Albatros, then for DFW, and from 1916 for Hannoversche Wagonfabrik.

Afterwards he worked on a diesel engine for automobiles and went to the USA in 1925, where he continued his work on diesel engines.

Planes built by Hermann Dorner:
1908: Soaring monoplane
1909: Monoplane with 18/24 hp Dorner engine
1910: T II monoplane with 20/22 hp Dorner engine
1911: T III monoplane
1912: Militär-Eindecker
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Many thanks my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
hesham said:
I read on Internet from long time ago,that the NFW E.III was a single seat monoplane fighter
project,but no more details are known,does anyone hear about it before ?.
Also I know for NFW,the E-Experimental was developed from E.I.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
The so-called Experimental monoplane by NFW is mentioned and illustrated in Gray & Thetford, German Aircraft of the First World War, p. 490 (“This machine was virtually the E I with revised tail surfaces”). No more information. Possibly only a modification of the E I.

And concerning the E III unfortunately no more information since my posting of August 22, 2014…
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Thank you my dear Tuizenfloot,

and I know for the NFW,it had old series from E.I to E.VI,am I right ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Very interesting, my dear hesham. I have no knowledge of the E.III to E.VI, but with those small German aircraft manufacturers one never knows. And that makes their history so exciting!

Any information welcome!
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
My dear Tuizentfloot,

all I know they were a light aircraft before WWI.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
My dear hesham, I think I have found the answer ... (my usual sources).

Before WWI there were indeed light aircraft NFW E.1 to E.6, but built by another NFW, the Nordwestdeutsche Flugzeugwerke NFW, Heinrich Evers & Co in Bremervörde.

Heinrich Evers had emigrated to the USA, where he worked in the automobile industry, and where he became interested in aviation, witnessing the flights of Glenn Curtiss. In 1909 he returned to Germany, built aeroplanes from 1910, and founded the Nordwestdeutsche Flugzeugwerke NFW in 1912. Due to financial problems he closed his firm already in 1913, and went back to the USA, where he worked for Benoist. At the outbreak of WWI he returned to Germany, but on the way he was interned in France. He escaped and went working for Caspar. In 1924 he went back to the USA, working for Fokker, and returned a last time to Germany in 1936, to work for Junkers on the Ju-88.

In all he built six aeroplanes in the period 1910-1913 (plus one unbuilt project):

E.1: Single seater monoplane (1910) with 30 hp Hilz engine.

E.2: Single seater monoplane (1911) with 30 hp Hilz engine. Improved E.1.

E.3: Two seater monoplane with Hilz engine.

E.4: Single seater monoplane (1912) with 40 hp Hilz engine (also with Anzani). Copy of the 1911-12 Schulze Eindecker.

E.5: Single seater monoplane with Hilz engine. See photograph.

E.6: Two seater Pfeil-Eindecker with 50 hp Gnome.

E.7: Pfeil-Eindecker with Hilz engine. Project only.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Yes,that's it,thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

Harry64

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Here are a little more about the aircraft from NFW (National Flugzeug-werke)built by Hans Heinrich

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2708/4131479221_e0a285261d_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2679/4131479499_0769bfaacf_b.jpg

only in German

Harry
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Hi.

was there any aircraft or Projects to Goetze ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Richard Goetze was director of the Dorner Flugzeug GmbH. When the Dorner company closed in 1913 Goetze took over the assets and created the Flugzeugwerke Richard Goetze KG in Berlin-Treptow (and from 1914 also a branch in Johannisthal).

His company didn’t build own types, but only aircraft on order: some of the Möwe for Dr. Geest, and marine aircraft for Sablatnig (a total of 16).

In 1916 Sablatnig took over a part of Goetze’s company.

The main activity of Goetze during WWI was aircraft maintenance and building of aircraft parts.

After WWI the Goetze company closed.

Sources:
Schmitt, Als die Oldtimer flogen – Die Geschichte des Flugplatzes Berlin-Johannisthal (1995), p. 182
Lange, Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik (1986), p. 86.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Hi,

also the designer Hanuschke,which built a biplane in 1909,parasol wing monoplane
of 1912,followed by a single seat monoplane fighter of 1913,the later was based on
Fokker E.I.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft28408.htm
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft28925.htm
http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29023.htm
 

Attachments

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Hanuschke was one of the smaller German early aircraft builders. The list of his aircraft is complete (biplane, high wing monoplane, Fokker-like monoplane), only there were three parasol or high wing monoplanes:

1910 Biplane with 1 x 16 hp Schüler engine (built by another early aircraft constructor, Max Schüler)

1910 Monoplane (high wing) with 1 x 25 hp Anzani

1911 "Populaire I" monoplane (high wing) with 1 x 25 hp Wunderlich engine

1912 "Populaire II" monoplane (high wing) with 1 x 50 hp Schwade engine

1914 Monoplane (inspired by the Morane-Saulnier H, as were the Fokker monoplanes) with 1 x 80 hp Gnome

According to Nowarra there should have been a second 1914 monoplane, but I never saw other reference to this.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Nice work my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
220
Reaction score
2
Dr. Waldemar Geest (1879-1944) was a medical doctor with a great interest in aviation, building model aircraft since 1896, and later gliders and motorised airplanes.

His first model aircraft of 1896 was of the flying wing type. Het continued to experiment with model aircraft and took a patent on his "Möwe" (Seagull) wing.

GEEST GLIDERS

1906 Glider: first full-scale construction by Geest, built by him during his medical training. Only short hops.

1908 Glider: wing area 11 m². Built in München in collaboration with Alois Wolfmüller.

1910 Glider: built by Gustav Lilienthal in Berlin. First flight in May 1910, crashed after a number of flights.

Weih (Harrier): his last glider (1910), built in Rathenow.

GEEST AIRPLANES

Möwe 1 (1910): two seater monoplane with 50 hp Argus engine. Built in Rathenow by a wheelwright Wietz. Short flights.

Möwe 2 (1911): with Gnome engine. Built by LVG in Johannisthal.

Möwe 3 (1912): with 50 hp Argus engine. Built by Wietz in Rathenow.

Möwe 4 (1912): with Arugus engine and arrow shaped tailplane. Built by Wietz in Rathenow. Very succesful.

Möwe 5 (1912): with 100 hp Argus engine and ailerons. Built by Wietz in Rathenow. Waldemar Geest had a flying school with the Möwe 3, 4 and 5.

Möwe 6 (1914): with 100 hp Daimler engine. Built by Richard Goetze KG in Treptow. First flight 17 June 1914. The wing was some kind of mix between his Möwe and the Taube, and had ailerons. A number were bought by the military.

D-Typ Doppel-Möwe (1917): experimental biplane fighter, built by Aviatik.

The Doppel-Möwe was the end of his aviation career. In 1917 Geest became a military doctor in a field hospital, and continued a medical practice after the war. But his interest is aviation did subsist, albeit with model aircraft.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,134
Reaction score
1,027
Amazing work my dear Tuizentfloot,many great thanks.
 

dan_inbox

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
598
Reaction score
77
Great summary, Tuizenfloot. Thank you.

I have seen photos only of Möve II, IV, VI and D-typ so far. Would you happen to have any pictures of the others?
 
Top