CIA/Lockheed A-12 cum USAF/Lockheed SR-71 series of aircraft

Thank you @quellish for the links. Allways usefull to look back into all that. Your links were high precision.

Although I did not bought the ARC book, here is an extract that make it inevitable:

Screenshot_20200708_141748.jpg

So indeed I was the one introducing Plasma stealth into the discussion. The lack of photographic evidence is noteworthy and I still believe that there is a part of the story that remain uncovered.
 
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The lack of photographic evidence is noteworthy...

The lack of photos of an aircraft that would be basically invisible at altitude is noteworthy? KEMPSTER would have hardly made a difference here; it's probable that, apart from minor configuration differences such as the Bunce Bump, there would be no visible evidence of the system even if you were standing next to it getting a face full of X-rays.
 
So your contention is that:
1. It was possible (in 1965) to track a Blackbird at speed and altitude when the aircraft was marked with a large white cross
2. This was done to support a speed record run
3. It's ridiculous to suppose that the same measures would be used to photographically document the airplane in its intended operational speed and altitude during it's test flight program. After spending billions of dollar and pushing many technologies into unprecedented territory. Because spyplanes fly low on the horizon and you couldn't pre-program a test flight to pass over a camera on schedule.
4. Suggestions that the USG might wish to restrict photos of a CIA-sponsored spyplane performing at a speed and altitude unreachable by any other aircraft, because they might reveal something of the technology employed are "whackadoodle".
Sorry, I lost your line of reasoning there somewhere.


1: Correct.
2: Duh.
3: Incorrect.
4: Incorrect.

See what happens when you dream up strawmen and say "so your contention is..." rather than asking for clarification on points you clearly don't understand?


BTW, you introduced "plasma-sheath" into the conversation.

No, I didn't. Do a ctrl-F search for "plasma" and see where it pops up first.

Looking forward to your photos of the U-2 at altitude.
Thanks for your insights and for the fruits of your towering intellect.
 
Thanks for your insights and for the fruits of your towering intellect.

Anytime. That's why I'm here.

And again, looking forward to your postings of photos of the U-2 (or, heck, any black-painted aircraft) at extreme altitude to show just how easy they are to photograph with crystal clarity. Heck, when I go looking for that sort of picture, I come across stuff like this:

E6B.png


That's a light-colored/bare-metal jetliner substantially bigger than the U-2/SR-71 flying at half to a third the altitude, and already it is beginning to fade into the background. Without the contrails you'd barely be able to see the thing. But *surely* a smaller aircraft, much further away, painted specifically to blend into the background... why, that's stick out like a MAGA hat at a Bernie rally!
 
Apart from reminding us to that great aircraft, mentioning the problems with photographing aircraft (or better, any
flying objects) at height are interesting food for thought indeed.
But perhaps this discussion could be run with less sarcasm and malice ... from all sides ?
 
Ionisation do alter photon travel thanks to absorbtion. So a color picture of such plane zipping through the atmosphere with localized formed plasma would be identifiable. Any observatory telescope could be tasked to do that. With so many territory overflown during A-12 missions, we might one day have a chance to see one such picture emerge...
 
Seems they flew three U-2 missions from Charbatia to Lop Nor and back, circa 1964. From memory, with ROCAF pilots.

The ROCAF's Squadron 35 (The Black Cat Squadron) used U-2s for mainland China overflights from January 1962 to March 1968 (after that only missions outside the borders of PRC were allowed).
The first idea for a flight to Lop Nor came in middle 1964, using a taiwanese U-2 but with an american pilot (the flights from Taiwan were strictly controlled by USA, and only authorized and flown by ROCAF), but at the end the mission was never made.
Only on 7 May 1967 the first mission (code C167C, the 93th overflight of PRC) to Lop Nor was made from Takhli (Tahiland), using a taiwanese U-2 on a very special mission: dropping two sensors to record the seismic activity of the nuclear explosions (Project Tabasco). The sensors would extend an antenna to send signal to a USA SIGINT station at Taiwan, but the data were never received. The analysts presumed the signals were not to strong enough to be received so far, so they decided to make another mission to Lop Nor using an U-2 with data receiver onboard, developed in short time and using an long wire as an antenna, spun from the Q-bay. The antenna would be recovered onboard, but in case of a malfunction of the reel a cutting device would cut the wire.
The mission (code C287C) was flown on the night 30-31 August (btw, it was the 100th overflight of mainland China performed by the 35th Squadron); it was a frightening mission, with a couple of SA-2 exploding near the U-2, but the pilot continued the flight, though the receiver did not record anything. During that period the first Chinese thermonuclear bomb was tested at Lop Nor (June 17), so a lot of interesting data would be recorded...

More details on Chris Pocock "50 years of the U-2", Schiffer, 2005 (and on an article written by myself in 2017 about the Taiwanese U-2s for an Italian magazine :cool:).
You can find below the redacted mission resume of the second flight, taken from the CIA library.
 

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  • 1967-08-31 Mission C287C CIA-RDP68B00724R000200090023-6.pdf
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>snip lots of good stuff<

The Blackbirds ultimately earned their nickname because they were coated with a high-emissivity black paint for improved heat radiation, thus reducing thermal stresses on the airframe. Although the first A-12 flew unpainted, engineers soon realized it would be advantageous to exploit Kirchoff’s law of Radiation that describes how a good heat absorber, such as any extremely dark object, is also an efficient heat emitter. Although convective heating decreases with increasing altitude, heat radiation occurs independently of altitude. Initial efforts involved application of black paint only to the airplane’s edges and cockpit area. The earliest paint scheme used on the A-12, AF-12 (YF-12A), and M-21, and intended for use on the R-12 (SR-71), involved painting the periphery black and leaving the rest of the airframe natural metal. Beginning in late 1963, however, Skunk Works engineers began painting the A-12 fleet and subsequent variants entirely black. This improved heat emission and made the airplanes less visible from the ground since they no longer strongly reflected the sun during high-altitude flight.

Yes... and the paint did NOT react well too standard aircraft washing soap. In fact a good number of people at Eglin AFB around 1980/81 found out the hard way that the several hours used to "mark" a visiting Blackbird with 'standard' AFB markings (for Eglin) on the tails with said aircraft soap (to take pictures of the aircraft for the base paper) were rather near-career-ending for many of them, including several people I knew.

A very stressful week and a half was had instead of the planned 48 hour 'visit' and that included two trips through the McKinley Climatic hanger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_Climatic_Laboratory) to try and scrape the frozen soap off without damaging the paint.

Randy
 
Nice one. Also 120 mile front aspect detection range for an SR-71 from an YF-12.
The F-12B is one of those great, "might have beens". (Not sure how practical it would have been to use them to escort Bears though.)
 
You've have to appreciate the modesty of such heroes (super?!) when they have to awnser where above the one digit mission they flew in a 6/7 years training were: "huh... Korea... Vietnam" . Why not Paris and The Chicago century fair!

I did watch this interview dozen of time and still feel breathless like each one of those
 
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