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Chinese Stealth bomber program - XAC H-X (H-20)

flateric

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totoro said:
Hopefully they won't name it H-20, there are far too many 20s in various projects nomenclatures already. What's with the obsession over the number 20? :)
AVIC "20 series" is explained as purposely chosen numerical designation for a family of next-gen vehicles by AVIC officials AFAIR.
 

flateric

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bananaman said:
saw this coupled yrs ago...
Another non-flyable fanart BS.
 

flateric

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FighterJock said:
totoro said:
Hopefully they won't name it H-20, there are far too many 20s in various projects nomenclatures already. What's with the obsession over the number 20? :)
I can fully agree with you on that point totoro, we have just had the J-20 and now they are calling the next bomber the H-20. I think they should call it the H-30.
Why not H-40 or H-50?
 

Deino

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... and therefore my I ask You to stick to realistic images ??? ... and not these fan-boy's artworks.
 

Flyaway

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Details emerge about requirement for China's new strategic bomber

http://www.janes.com/article/66423/details-emerge-about-requirement-for-china-s-new-strategic-bomber

Complete with artists impression.
 

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Flyaway said:
Details emerge about requirement for China's new strategic bomber

http://www.janes.com/article/66423/details-emerge-about-requirement-for-china-s-new-strategic-bomber

Complete with artists impression.
Weird of the author to choose that particular CGI... that is one of the most dismissed configurations of the bomber out there, and there are so many more authoritative graphics out there which probably have an actual relationship to the real aircraft instead of something made by a fanboy who doesn't even know a turbofan needs air inlets...
 

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https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/06/china-developing-new-strategic-nuclear-bomber.html

https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF?ver=2017-06-06-141328-770
 

flateric

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bobbymike said:
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/06/china-developing-new-strategic-nuclear-bomber.html
Oh, what a breaking news! http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,28076.msg295757.html#msg295757

Can we not post shitnews from "brian wang" any more?
 

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http://defence-blog.com/news/china-confirms-that-the-next-gen-long-range-bomber-is-under-development.html
 

flateric

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This is BS article, to say the less.
Trying to tie a 10x15 meters RCS _model_ at Leizhuangcun RCS range, that was deliberately left under optics of commercial imaging sat, to the H-20 at least not wise.
 

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Just something interesting popped up this morning in an official AVIC promotional video ...

https://www.facebook.com/Modern-Chinese-Warplanes-611223845748378/

Is this a first official hint for the PLAAF H-20?

This image from an official AVIC (or even XAC) promotional video was posted in several forums this morning and maybe shows a 3D rendering of the PLAAF’s next generation stealth bomber H-XX/H-20.

What’s funny at first sight and immediately led to some quite controversial discussions in the usual chat-groups, that this image is a nearly exact reproduction of the original Northrop Grumman commercial video, when the B-21 Raider was announced at the super bowl.

Even if both images are not the same it is obviously inspired by the NG video: The black background, the lighting including the arc of spotlights above, the pattern of the lights on the intake and overall the way the bomber's "shape" is covered mysteriously by a tarp are all very similar even if there are minor differences.

So one might ask, was this pure laziness, an intentional copy of NG’s promotional concept since it was “so cool” or even deliberate takeover of the same concept in order – as one poster commented – “just as an expression of "friendly" rivalry” to the B-21.

“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.” (Oscar Wilde)

Regardless what’s the true intention of using the same concept, it has to be reminded that surely someone at AVIC’s upper level must have officially sanctioned the video maker not only to include the last scene (from 5:09) but also by copying NG’s concept: So in conclusion it is in fact the first official confirmation by any Chinese source that a flying wing aircraft is under development at XAC and maybe it can be taken as a hint that the next step to any public unveiling is not that far away.
By the way, here's the video and indeed it is interesting, that it starts with the H-6....

http://defenseimg.81.cn/data/mediafile/pic/video/2018/05/08/a973a15a8b8d4a1cb2e4d5e4f02ab2bd.mp4
 

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It's an official video but whether the rendering of the H-20 has any basis in reality is uncertain. It a big leap from H-6 to stealth bomber.
 

flateric

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Can you return back to topic please? Thank you.
 

litzj

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Chinese probably have 3rd largest bomber fleet in the world; 1st : US, 2nd : Russia. (Am I right??)

They should replace large number of aged Tu-16 in appropriate time,
and they do not have enough time to develop aircraft having risky or new concept than others.

So, reason for choosing similar design of B-21 as the new bomber is very clear : do not taking risk, following US efficiently in reasonable time and cost

Maybe we should wait FANCY-CHINESE BOMBER CONCEPT in next term. In current term, they do not have enough room for doing such a thing.
 

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Frankly if the USAF's LRS-B/NGB/now B-21 is adopting a similar proven configuration to the B-2 then I can't see why it would be reasonable to expect China to seek a more radical configuration at all. Especially when the B-21 itself seems to adopt a near identical configuration to one of the earlier ATB configurations as well.


There are some possible hints that the Air Force might be looking at a supersonic stealthy regional bomber which, if it emerges, will be in a unique class of its own, but it's still very dubious as to whether that project will go forwards.
 

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litzj said:
Chinese probably have 3rd largest bomber fleet in the world; 1st : US, 2nd : Russia. (Am I right??)
Considering nobody else has any bombers I would have to say yes, you are correct.
 

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Blitzo said:
There are some possible hints that the Air Force might be looking at a supersonic stealthy regional bomber which, if it emerges, will be in a unique class of its own, but it's still very dubious as to whether that project will go forwards.
Which Air Force is looking at a supersonic regional bomber?

Actually, if China wanted a stealthy long range bomber, how different from the B-2/B-21 could it actually look?
 

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DrRansom said:
Blitzo said:
There are some possible hints that the Air Force might be looking at a supersonic stealthy regional bomber which, if it emerges, will be in a unique class of its own, but it's still very dubious as to whether that project will go forwards.
Which Air Force is looking at a supersonic regional bomber?

Actually, if China wanted a stealthy long range bomber, how different from the B-2/B-21 could it actually look?
When I say "the air force" I am referring to the PLAAF. I.e. there are some indications the PLAAF may be looking into a stealthy supersonic regional bomber in addition to the larger subsonic stealthy flying wing which is H-20, but it is still early days.

And yes, that is my point; a stealthy, long range subsonic bomber will naturally tend towards a flying wing with the technology we have today and the limitations of physics. So it shouldn't be a surprise that H-20 will look similar to the B-2, which was the pioneer of aircraft of that category.
 

sferrin

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Blitzo said:
So it shouldn't be a surprise that H-20 will look similar to the B-2, which was the pioneer of aircraft of that category.
In that both might be flying wings, sure. Aside from that gross detail there is no reason for them to look exactly alike. The, "same mission so it's logical for them to look like each other" excuse frequently gets trotted out as a fig leaf for a blatant rip-off but it's rarely applicable.
 

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DrRansom said:
Blitzo said:
There are some possible hints that the Air Force might be looking at a supersonic stealthy regional bomber which, if it emerges, will be in a unique class of its own, but it's still very dubious as to whether that project will go forwards.
Which Air Force is looking at a supersonic regional bomber?

Actually, if China wanted a stealthy long range bomber, how different from the B-2/B-21 could it actually look?
In terms of wing configuration, the B-21 is currently about as good as you can get for 4 lobes in terms of minimizing the number of "sawtooths", short of going to a diamond. The Boeing-Lockheed NGB rendering had the same wing configuration for a good reason. That said, I'd at least expect the fuselage and inlets on the H-20 to look somewhat different, and many other considerations that would make the OML quite different.
 

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litzj said:
Chinese probably have 3rd largest bomber fleet in the world; 1st : US, 2nd : Russia. (Am I right??)
According to IISS (International Institute for Strategic Studies) they have caught up in the number of airframes in service.

China 162
US 157
Russia 139

It's worth noting though that all of China's bombers are H-6 variants, which are half the size of American bombers. The H-6 is based on an ancient design, but according to IISS about half of the fleet are the newest H-6K variant, which entered service 2009. So the airframes will still have life in them for a long time.
 

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zaphd said:
litzj said:
Chinese probably have 3rd largest bomber fleet in the world; 1st : US, 2nd : Russia. (Am I right??)
According to IISS (International Institute for Strategic Studies) they have caught up in the number of airframes in service.

US 157
Russia 139
China 162 Closer to 120-130


It's worth noting though that all of China's bombers are H-6 variants, which are half the size of American bombers. The H-6 is based on an ancient design, but according to IISS about half of the fleet are the newest H-6K variant, which entered service 2009. So the airframes will still have life in them for a long time.
In service, not number built.
 

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Blitzo said:
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
This image from a Chinese research article demonstrates clearly why B-21 is the shape it is.
That has some interesting implications for what H-20 may end up looking like... It'll sure be interesting if B-21 and H-20 both come out with similar planform

Where'd you find that picture from btw?
Must be from this website http://www.cqvip.com/QK/97556A/201105/39961564.html
 

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https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pentagon-report-highlights-beijings-bomber-capabil-451217/

Longer term, the report notes that China is developing a stealth bomber that is likely to be designated H-20. This aircraft could make its debut in the mid-2020s. It is likely to have an 8,500km (4,600nm) range, and a payload of 10t.

“A photograph of a possible H-20 prototype depicted a flying wing airframe akin to the [Northrop Grumman] B-2 bomber and X-47B stealth unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV),” it says.

In addition, a separate air-refuellable bomber could reach initial operational capability before the H-20.
 

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https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/10/11/in-first-china-confirms-new-long-range-strategic-bomber-designation/
 

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Grey Havoc said:
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/10/11/in-first-china-confirms-new-long-range-strategic-bomber-designation/
So the new Chinese Stealth bomber is to be officially the H-20 (no great surprises there), 2020 cannot come fast enough. B)
 

Deino

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FighterJock said:
Grey Havoc said:
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/10/11/in-first-china-confirms-new-long-range-strategic-bomber-designation/
So the new Chinese Stealth bomber is to be officially the H-20 (no great surprises there), 2020 cannot come fast enough. B)
Yes, even if some reports even suggest an earlier surprise?!! ... but how likely is this? :eek:

https://twitter.com/SciteCito/status/1051762442718588930

based on this link: https://defence-blog.com/news/china-to-unveil-newest-long-range-strategic-bomber-during-military-parade-in-2019.html

Chinese media has announced on 15 October that the newest long-range strategic bomber will unveil during a parade as part of the 70th anniversary celebrations of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) in 2019.

According to the news reports, China to unveil its new long-range strategic bomber at the large-scale air force military parade to mark the 70th anniversary of the founding of the PLAAF. However, there’s no official statement or confirmed from the Chinese government or military.
Also, what kind of Chinese media has announced this? Any random internet media? The unreliable SCMP or again Global Times? :-\

I must admit even if there's indeed a lot of "noise" concerning the H-20 recently, IMO none of the reliable reports directly hint an "appearance soon" or even less a "maiden flight"; these only mention a certain break-thru in design & development. ... therefore these hyping reports like the one from Global Times quoting a Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta - IMO barely reliable in top secret Chinese military matters - and even worse mentioning the wrong aircraft designer, should be IMO at best ignored.
 

flateric

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Rossiyskaya Gazeta is a crap
 

Deino

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flateric said:
Rossiyskaya Gazeta is a crap
Especially that - but even if it won't be crap - is another reason. To quote a Russian newspaper as main source for a new top-secret Chinese bomber to be ready for flight that smells so much fishy everyone with the slightest sense of logic must accept as proof for a FAKE... anyway exactly such reports are circulating more and more recently.
 

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flateric

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we live in an era when crappy journalism is making a circles
 

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flateric said:
we live in an era when crappy journalism is making a circles
Either way, I wonder how Russia feels to be outperformed by the Chinese? The Chinese are seemingly beating them on stealth fighters and bombers.
 

flateric

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key word is 'seemingly'
 

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Well, if one side has a LO fighter being put in service and Increasing their numbers each year while other side has their LO fighter on hold, I would say that is pretty evident lead.

Similar thing might be said once we see who will fly a LO bomber first. Could be in a few years...
 

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totoro said:
Well, if one side has a LO fighter being put in service and Increasing their numbers each year while other side has their LO fighter on hold, I would say that is pretty evident lead.

Similar thing might be said once we see who will fly a LO bomber first. Could be in a few years...
I would not like to place any bets onto whether China or Russia gets their Stealth Bombers airborne first. Last I heard was that Tupolev have put their new bomber on hold in favor of building more Tu-160's and also upgrading the existing fleet. So it could go either way.
 

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FighterJock said:
totoro said:
Well, if one side has a LO fighter being put in service and Increasing their numbers each year while other side has their LO fighter on hold, I would say that is pretty evident lead.

Similar thing might be said once we see who will fly a LO bomber first. Could be in a few years...
I would not like to place any bets onto whether China or Russia gets their Stealth Bombers airborne first. Last I heard was that Tupolev have put their new bomber on hold in favor of building more Tu-160's and also upgrading the existing fleet. So it could go either way.
It doesn't matter who flies first, Russia or China. Its who actually flies a real stealth bomber first.

If the Russians AC is on par with the SU-57, then who really cares the Russians are airborne first.

We already know the Chinese are tooling experts and great at holding tolerances (I worked with the chi-coms for 2 years on a shared 'venture' and can attest to their tooling skills). The Russians seem to still be sloppy in mass manufacturing from the rumor mill. Probably that's why the Sukhoi isn't actually a stealth fighter.

We also know the Chinese ripped of boat loads of info from the B-2. My money is on the Chinese AC maybe not flying first, but actually being stealthy.

Time to field some quantum radars.
 

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My opinion - H-20 will fly first and enter service long before PAK DA.
 

flateric

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That's obvious that PAK DA will fly and enter service later than H-20 and B-21, if ever will.
 

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Airplane said:
We already know the Chinese are tooling experts and great at holding tolerances (I worked with the chi-coms for 2 years on a shared 'venture' and can attest to their tooling skills). The Russians seem to still be sloppy in mass manufacturing from the rumor mill. Probably that's why the Sukhoi isn't actually a stealth fighter.
Had a chance to measure both planes in anechoic chamber? Wanna share?
 
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