Some mysterious ship that under construction in Dalian has 43m waterline width so if this thing has the same hull ratio as Gerald Ford it will be 350m long and weight around 118,000 tons.
Okay, fair point.


If the Chinese ship ended up bigger than Ford I don't think its necessarily for bragging right of having the biggest carrier but also partly because of limitation of their reactor tech. Since they need 4 reactors instead of Ford's 2 they might as well make the ship bigger to compensate for the volume that are taken by the extra reactors.
I'm not willing to assume that the Chinese don't have well-developed high power density reactors. That's all math and engineering, and 1.2bn people means you can find the best mathematicians and engineers.



Considering the size of the J15 and the fact that the sixth-generation aircraft (perhaps existing) built the aircraft carrier slightly larger ,in order to seek the same number of carrier-based aircraft as the American carrier, this is actually reasonable.
Not sure I believe that, since the Nimitz and Fords can handle 90 airframes at "F-14 or bigger" sizes.

But we'll file this argument for later.
 
The 4 reactors arrangement rumor comes from public patents that has been found about a reactor hooked up to a single turbine only, but IMO it's more likely Type 004 will use IEP hence not needing a separate turbine for propulsion. Also, there was only two of what looked like reactor lids seen at DL shipyard not 4.
 
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There is also a decent chance that there'll be another carrier at JN shipyard being built concurrently with Type 004 in DL. We don't know the specific design of this new carrier, whether it'll be a improved 003, rumored gas turbine powered IEP conventional carrier or nuclear. But according to credible sources JN is also working a nuclear ship but it's not known if this is related to this carrier.
 
So is this new Type 005 carrier going to be the second carrier in the same class as the Type 004? China have certainly accellerated their carrier construction lately.
Type "005" is rumored to be a gas turbine–powered carrier using Integrated Electric Propulsion, and it’ll probably come in a bit larger than the Type 003 at around 90,000 tons. It’s likely going to run on four QC500 gas turbines, each putting out about 50 MW, and interestingly, they’ve got a rare dual-output shaft design that lets them drive load from both ends. With additional diesel powerplant(~4*20MW maybe?), my personal speculation is that Type "005" could sustain peak output of ~280MW total, it should be enough to drive a 90kt carrier at 30+ knots while fully utilizing the onboard EMALS. If these rumors are true, it looks like the PLAN is going for a high-low carrier mix, similar to what they’re doing with submarines, fighter jets, and destroyers already. In that setup, the bigger and more expensive nuclear-powered Type 004s would take the lead on global missions, while Type "005"s would handle regional power projection, quick response tasks, and be much cheaper and faster to build. IMO, we might see over 10 of these built, with Type 004s staying more limited with maybe around 6 to 8 in total for a combined carrier fleet of 16-18. Type 076 is actually rumored to be a "testbed" for technologies that this new Type "005" would use like IEPS in large ships using combined gas turbine/diesel generators and probably the onboard integrated electrical system with EMALS as well.

But there is also a less likely chance that Type "005" is just going to be Type 003A with some minor modifications, if this is the case it might be the end of conventional propulsion for PLAN and likely that they'll go full nuclear with their carrier fleet in the future. IMO, steam propulsion like the Type 003 doesn't really have much of a future right now since cold startup time isn't much better than nuclear and no additional upgradability due to the lack of IEPS while also being less fuel efficient.
 
If it made sense to build a much larger carrier than 100ktons, the US would have done so by now.

There were similar proposals in the past, I think. Additionally the US also just lacks the necessary shipbuilding infrastructure China possesses. So I could see China pump out bigger ships 100%. Bigger by how much is the question though. Obviously you're right in insinuating that there comes a point where size/displacement increase falls under the rule of diminishing returns.

I personally would always prefer more numerous, cheaper, independent carriers. But very large vessels have unique advantages.
 
So the Type 005 will be a gas-turbine powered carrier instead of nuclear, that is rather crazy don't you think Tomboy? I would have thought that the Type 005 would have been another nuclear powered carrier just like the Type 004.
 
So the Type 005 will be a gas-turbine powered carrier instead of nuclear, that is rather crazy don't you think Tomboy? I would have thought that the Type 005 would have been another nuclear powered carrier just like the Type 004.
IMO, we'll have to wait for more info. JN build its carriers differently than DL, JN uses large prefabbed modules while DL uses the tower method so JN's new carrier would take longer to be laid down in drydock but would have faster construction time once laid down. If JN's new carrier is legit and started prefabbing modules right now we could foreseeably see signs in drydocks perhaps early-mid next year.

As to the gas turbine theory, if China wants a massive amount of carriers(15-20) in the next 20 years, a hi-low mix is the most optimal. This rumored carrier would likely share powerplants and IEPS parts with their next gen destroyer/crusiers hence making it logistically easier to build and maintain due to part standerisation and burning the same type of fuel as the rest of its escorts. Also, 90kt conventional carrier with 280MW installed power would be large enough to offer perhaps similar sortie rates as last gen Nimitz class with steam catapults at peak. I mean if they are paying 40 percent the price for 80 percent of the capability of Type 004/Ford, while also having extremely fast construction time(With Chinese yards, its not impossible that if mass produced and using common parts construction time could be down to 3.5-4 years only while also cheap enough to build multiple all at once) it doesn't sound so bad IMO. They'll likely still build Type 004s but considering nuclear ships will likely take 5-6 years minimum even with mass production and also costs an arm and a leg, Type 005 becomes more and more attractive for lesser demanding tasks and regional deployments.
 
Thanks Tomboy, so the PLAN are going to have a mix of Type 004 and Type 005 carriers operating by the mid 2030s, I can now see the point of this operating two different types of carrier makes sense.
 
while DL uses the tower method so JN's new carrier would take longer to be laid down in drydock but would have faster construction time once laid down.

What is this tower method of construction?
 
I could see "GT carriers with IEP" versus "conventional steamers with IEP."

GTs have some significant advantages for naval use, the biggest one being quick startup. As in, ~5-10min from "Phone call from the Admiral, we need to get underway" to "ready to answer bells on all main engines"! This means that engineering can get started up by the shutdown watch and be ready before the rest of the crew has reached their stations for Sea and Anchor detail and Maneuvering Watch.

If China cannot build reactors quickly, then it'd make sense to build conventional carriers. But just a reminder that the US built 150ish S5W reactors in a decade or so. It's not impossible to make lots of reactors.
 
I could see "GT carriers with IEP" versus "conventional steamers with IEP."

GTs have some significant advantages for naval use, the biggest one being quick startup. As in, ~5-10min from "Phone call from the Admiral, we need to get underway" to "ready to answer bells on all main engines"! This means that engineering can get started up by the shutdown watch and be ready before the rest of the crew has reached their stations for Sea and Anchor detail and Maneuvering Watch.

If China cannot build reactors quickly, then it'd make sense to build conventional carriers. But just a reminder that the US built 150ish S5W reactors in a decade or so. It's not impossible to make lots of reactors.
Right now, we can only wait until more info is released on JN's new ship. If it indeed turns out to be a new design with GT-IEP then PLAN might actually be pivoting to a hi-low mix of carriers, if JN's ship turns out to be a 003 sistership or 003 mod then PLAN most likely will continue with pure nuclear afterwards.

It's not really about building reactors quickly even if they do indeed go the hi-low mix route, upfront costs of CVNs are a lot more than GT-IEP CVs hence it might be difficult to afford starting multiple carriers at once even if there is industrial capacity to do so which means it'll take much longer for China to build up its carrier fleet while with CVs you could easily afford 2-3 carriers for the same upfront cost as a CVN. Let's say for example If PLAN decided that they only need 6 Type 004s instead of 12 planned because they found that for what they need smaller CVs could do most tasks just fine, but they still needed the top end capability of a flagship Type 004. They could instead use the extra money for the 6 Type 004s and buy 12 Type 005s instead for greater operational flexibility and better economic gains.






PS: There is also the off chance that instead of a Type 003/003A or the rumored GT-IEP CV, JN might be building Type 004's sister ship. Considering there were credible leak that JN yard is also working on some sort of nuclear ship.
 
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So what is the projected displacement of the Type 004 Tomboy? For it to be a twin reactor carrier? Since the Fujians displacement is 80000-85000 tonnes?
 
So what is the projected displacement of the Type 004 Tomboy? For it to be a twin reactor carrier? Since the Fujians displacement is 80000-85000 tonnes?
We know pretty sure the DL mystery ship have a max beam of 43.8m if I recall correctly. Ford class have a beam of 40.8m and w/l length of 317m hence l/b ratio of 7.77, if Type 004 has similar l/b ratio as the Ford/Nimitz which is pretty likely we could estimate 340.3m w/l for Type 004. Recent estimate/rumor says max draft estimate is ~12.5m but if we take 12m of the Ford's then assume a modest block coefficient of 0.65 we could calculate: 12*340.3*43.8*1.025*0.65=119,169 tons full displacement. If we assume a more conservative estimate then probably 110kts approx.

Type 004's flight deck width is ~83m(via the carrier mockup building) and potentially could reach up to 350m in overall length but this is not confirmed.
 
Thanks Tomboy, so the Type 004 would have a full displacement of 119,000 tonnes? That would make it larger than the Ford class carriers.
 
Thanks Tomboy, so the Type 004 would have a full displacement of 119,000 tonnes? That would make it larger than the Ford class carriers.
I mean right now from what could be observed Type 004 will be larger ie. 43m beam, 83 deck width etc. But it doesn't rule out the unlikely scenario that 004 will be extremely short for some reason. Real displacement can only be confirmed once the entire ship is laid out so we could get a real value for length.
 
I mean right now from what could be observed Type 004 will be larger ie. 43m beam, 83 deck width etc. But it doesn't rule out the unlikely scenario that 004 will be extremely short for some reason. Real displacement can only be confirmed once the entire ship is laid out so we could get a real value for length.
Highly unlikely. The only reason ships have ended up short is treaties that limited total displacement (witness the South Dakota class BBs right before the Iowa class).

I fully expect a L:B ratio the same as the Nimitz and Ford classes for the Type 004.
 
From last week:
Tuesday marks the third anniversary of the launch of the Fujian, China's first aircraft carrier equipped with electromagnetic catapults. Official media said China is about to enter a three-aircraft-carrier era, with the Fujian expected to enter service by 2025.

After the launch of the Fujian on June 17, 2022, it carried out its first sea trial from May 1 to 8 in 2024. Since then, the Fujian has completed multiple sea trials, accumulating more than 100 days of sea trial, China Central Television (CCTV) News reported on Tuesday.

Wei Dongxu, a Chinese military affairs commentator, said that the aircraft carrier Fujian has been making steady progress in sea trials, and is expected to be commissioned within this year, CCTV News reported.
 
Fujian fully entering service is good news for the PLAN, I cannot wait to see the Fujian air wing with a full complement of J-35Bs and the KJ-600.
 
And also - for some the final confirmation of being the 004 CV(N) - an update from Dalian shipyard on that „huge“ vessel under construction… whatever it will be in the end!(image via 抖音)

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If that really is the Type-004 CVN then its construction has only just begun.
 
It seems that the Fujian aircraft carrier has already left the Shanghai dock. If the information is reliable, it is likely that she will officially set sail, and next time we might see planes taking off from the Fujian.
Fingers crossed carrier quals go well, with zero accidents.

Just because I don't like the Chinese government, doesn't mean I can't mourn any servicemember losses.
 

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