• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

China's New Helicopters - Z-10 and Z-19

S

STINGRAY

Guest
In the HAI Z-9 page in avia.russian.ee (History of Helicopters and Autogyros) website, it describes not only a new fighter, but a new 'Z-X' helicopter project. I havent found a thing about this yet. is it extremely secret?
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
Stingray said:
In the HAI Z-9 page in avia.russian.ee (History of Helicopters and Autogyros) website, it describes not only a new fighter, but a new 'Z-X' helicopter project. I havent found a thing about this yet. is it extremely secret?
Hmmm ... maybe You should be slightly more specific as there are surely some still "secret" projects underway ...

One of them could be the originally planed 6t "Chinese Medium Helicopter" CMH, which was suggested to feature the same transmission, engines and gear-box and tail of the WZ-10 once called only Z-10 or even Z-12 ... but this now seems to be replaced by the new joint Eurocopter-development called Z-15 and/or EC.175.

Espicially this jump from Z-11 (= based on the AS-350B Squirrel) to the now official Z-15 suggest that there are at least a Z-12 (maybe CMH), Z-13 and Z-14 still secret ! :eek:

Otherwise there are several "rumours" - some of them mentioned in an AVIC-report - that a new 10t helicopter is under development with the latest Z-8F now in production as an interim model and that China is seeking for international partners on a tiltrotor-concept sometimes called S-863 for the future.

Deino
 
S

STINGRAY

Guest
Wow. kinda makes me wonder if there were "Z-..." models before the Z-5 or maybe new ones after Z-15. I am still wondering about what the "Z-..." designation for that chinese version of the S-70 is.
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
Stingray said:
Wow. kinda makes me wonder if there were "Z-..." models before the Z-5 or maybe new ones after Z-15. I am still wondering about what the "Z-..." designation for that chinese version of the S-70 is.
There is no !!! A type only gets a Chinese designation after it is produced in China !! Just an example is the Su-27SK, which only received the J-11 designation for the licence manufactured machines. Another example is the Mi-8/Mi-17 Hind.
 
S

STINGRAY

Guest
Thank you for your viewpoint.....!!!...!!




PS: I dont know everything about helicopters, and that is one of those things. I did not know they get designations after they got built.
 

Stingray

Brony rotorhead...
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
384
Reaction score
3
Website
sites.google.com
From Jane's "All the World's Aircraft", 2001
HAMC is understood to be undertaking a design study for a new, twin-engined light helicopter in the 5,000 to 5,500kg (11,023 to 12,125 lb) weight class, possibly derived from the Z-9. It is not yet clear whether this work is related to the Z-10 programme described under the CHRDI heading, although this seems likely.
http://sites.google.com/site/stingrayslistofrotorcraft/Harbin-Z-X

Sorry for being lazy. ::)
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,009
Reaction score
95
Deino - anything other than RUMINT on the tilt rotor project? Where might one find the information?
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
To be honest ... IMO there's actually "no" real project esp. one with a Z-number allocated to fill a formal requirement.

I think there's the usual research in that field but it's much too early to say in which direction they will proceed.

Currently the most important project is the Z-15 helicipter (in cooperation with Eurocopter), the 10t-helicopter (strangely in the models published so far similar to an enlarged S-70) and the new haevy project in cooperation with Mil reportedly based on the Mi-46.

Deino
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,119
Reaction score
1,006
The WZ-10;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WZ-10_helicopter.png
 

Attachments

collins355

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Sorry to rain on your parade, but neither of those helicopters is a Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter.
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
collins355 said:
Sorry to rain on your parade, but neither of those helicopters is a Chinese Z-10 attack helicopter.
Agreed ... maybe You could ask JP, if You could use his drawing !

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1641.45.html (see reply 56)

Deino
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
I did not want to open a new tread, but China's latest helicopter, the AC-313 has made its 1. flight ... itself a civil version of a much improved Z-8 based on the Z-8F.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/03/19/339673/chinas-ac313-has-first-flight-and-secures-launch-customer.html

China's AC313 has first flight and secures launch customer
By Leithen Francis

Chinese state-owned helicopter-maker Avicopter has conducted the first flight of its AC313 helicopter, the largest the country has developed. This first flight of the 13.8t helicopter took place at Jingdezhen in eastern China's Jiangxi province.
The AC313, which can carry 27 passengers and has a maximum range of 900 kilometres, fills a gap in China's helicopter product line-up, says Avicopter.
It can be used for transport, cargo, search and rescue, fire-fighting, offshore exploration and medical evacuation missions, it adds.
After the first flight, AVIC I International Leasing signed a contract to purchase five AC313s. Flying Dragon Special Aviation then inked a deal to lease the helicopters and be the launch operator.
Avicopter plans to apply for certification from the Civil Aviation Administration of China next year, and is hopeful of applying for EASA and FAA certification after that, says an Avicopter official.

China has also been in discussions with Russian Helicopters about developing a 20t heavy-lift helicopter.

Zhang Hongbiao, director of the AVIC's science and technology committee and former president of AVIC II, did several media interviews this month announcing that Avicopter wants to build a heavy-lift helicopter.

His remarks coincided with the annual sitting of China's parliament in Beijing, a time when many political figures lobby to get national support for projects.

Deino
 

Attachments

Stingray

Brony rotorhead...
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
384
Reaction score
3
Website
sites.google.com
Does anyone know about the WZ-19? I stumbled across this designation several places, but it seems too much of a hoax. The last time I saw this aircraft mentioned it was represented with my own flawed picture of what I thought the WZ-10 looked like (yes, the picture in hesham's post further up this thread).

EDIT: I found a photo of the "mockup" here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?191876-AVIC-Harbin-WZ19

In my opinion it looks too much like the MBB PAH-2 project.
 

Attachments

Apophenia

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,139
Reaction score
67
Other 'photos' of the Z-19 appear to be retouched images of the Z-9W showing a more Apache-style canopy -- not the stepped canopy arrangement of your mockup. Maybe we're getting closer to the real thing?
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,068
Not been following this program for a while, some great photos posted recently at http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=35.640
 

Attachments

archipeppe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
73
It is my impression, or this thing look alike an Agusta A-129 Mangusta??
 

walter

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
341
Reaction score
15
I understand the Harbin/AVIC Z-19 may be slightly slightly smaller/lighter than the Z-10 and a prototype may have flown during May 2010. The Z-19 reportedly had reversed seating (pilot front and gunner aft) and used the engines (WoZhou WZ8A?), rotor, aft fuselage and tail section (including Fenestron tailrotor) of the H425. Armament 1x30mm canon in chin turret and stub fuselage pylons for AGMs/AAMs. Further equipment said to include FLIR. TV and laser range finder.
Cruise 153mph, climbrate 1,770ft/minute, range 435 miles
 

ADVANCEDBOY

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
285
Reaction score
2
The most important thing is that they are actually building new choppers, which will allow them to accumulate expertize and go forward. Studying endlessly concepts doesn`t give expertize, rollind down the sleeves and actually building things does. I think Asians will get very strong in aviation in next 30 years.
 

yasotay

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,009
Reaction score
95
ADVANCEDBOY said:
The most important thing is that they are actually building new choppers, which will allow them to accumulate expertize and go forward. Studying endlessly concepts doesn`t give expertize, rollind down the sleeves and actually building things does. I think Asians will get very strong in aviation in next 30 years.
Could you please make the US DoD understand that! I have to agree with you.
 

fightingirish

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,160
Reaction score
143
Deino, you wrote a great article about the two new Chinese Attack Helicopters Z-10 and Z-19 in the latest issue (03/2011) of the German aviation magazine Flieger-Revue. :)
 

pedrospe

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
264
Reaction score
10
These are the best z-10 photos,i ever saw, thanks a lot ,overscan, for sharing them with us.



regards


Pedro
 

Deino

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
89
fightingirish said:
Deino, you wrote a great article about the two new Chinese Attack Helicopters Z-10 and Z-19 in the latest issue (03/2011) of the German aviation magazine Flieger-Revue. :)
Thanks ... the same - or better to say - slightly longer one will be published in the next "Combat Aircraft Monthly" issue in English.

Deino
 

RSF

Cocidius
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Great photos, some of which I've seen before in other Chinese blogs, and others that are new. The Z-10 has characteristics similar to Mangusta and the Tigre, while the engine/exhaust orientation reminds me of the Super Cobra. The fuselage stealth shaping is more pronounced then I thought looking at these new photos.


http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/02/chinas-1st-attack-helo-goes-op.html
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
212
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC) WZ-10 aerial presentation at Airshow China 2012.


http://youtu.be/huveHkSI6xo



http://youtu.be/vribr0vGR7k



http://youtu.be/Gc9tAahHBwI
 

MihoshiK

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
106
Reaction score
13
So yeah, shamelessly cribbed from another forum ( a veritable hive of scum and villainy), all pictures from the Zhuhai airshow:













 

pedrospe

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
264
Reaction score
10
Great pictures,thanks a lot for sharing.


regards

Pedro
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
212
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Another video from Airshow China of the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC) WZ-10 flying demonstration. The WZ in the designation stands for Wuzhuang Zhishengji literally "Armed Helicopter."

 
Top