British Specification P.27/32 Light Day Bomber

[hesham]

Hi,


in the Spec. P27/32E for day bomber aircraft, Hawker submitted a proposal for low cantilever
wing two seat aircraft project,and maybe a retractable landing gear.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
P.27/32 Light day bomber – Hart/Hind replacement – see P.23/35
Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29, Fairey Battle, Gloster P.27/32, Bristol Type 136

Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29 is here.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20174.msg196602.html#msg196602

One of the Fairey study?
https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=180704

 

[blackkite]

You can find Gloster P.27/32 proposal three side view drawing and model picture here.
https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=gfolAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA1971&lpg=PA1971&dq=Gloster+P.27/32&source=bl&ots=-PJkb2BZ53&sig=FTOa7CBSBItQJ_casdGoMFl0KQU&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKj6ay-ojXAhWFy7wKHXbECZ4Q6AEIQDAG#v=onepage&q=Gloster%20P.27%2F32&f=false

Russian site.
http://alternathistory.com/zabytye-monoplany-genri-follanda-chast-5-legkii-bombardirovshchik-spetsifikatsii-p2732

 

[hesham]

Also you can find Hawker here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23872.msg243186.html#msg243186

Anther tenders were; Bristol Type-136,Westland Sesquiplane and Vickers Type-246

 

[blackkite]

Oh Hawker!!

 

[Jemiba]

Thankfully via lark from "THE FAIREY BATTLE: A Re-Assessment of its RAF Career" by Greg Baughen,
an artist impression of the tender by Fairey.

 

[blackkite]

Ummm....Wing root moment of inertia of area is small. Structurally hard. ???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_moment_of_area

 

[Jemiba]

It really isn't recognisable on that drawing (perhaps too much artistic license ?), but for
that reason, there are struts, probably making the whole design not very attractive to
the Air Staff (drawing from the same source mentioned above)

 

[Schneiderman]

You can see the origins of the design in patent GB430331. Gloster took a similar approach, as seen in the Putnam volume and my article in The Aviation Historian - ripped-off in the Russian link in the above post.

 

[blackkite]

Interesting. Many thanks gentlemen.

 

[hesham]

Amazing work my dears Jemiba and Schneiderman.

 

[Schneiderman]

...... "THE FAIREY BATTLE: A Re-Assessment of its RAF Career" by Greg Baughen,.......

This is a 'must-have' book for anyone interested in 1930s aircraft design and the evolution of Fairey's monoplanes. The title is a bit misleading as it is primarily about design and development rather than operational history, and all the better for that as there are plenty of Battle in service books and articles around. It includes many official 3-views showing all the steps in the evolution of the aircraft that tell the story the way it was, and not the way implied by other authors (or I should say author, singular, as there is really just the one distorting history)

 

[Antonio]

It includes many official 3-views showing all the steps in the evolution of the aircraft that tell the story the way it was

Added to my next order

Thanks a lot!

 

[hesham]

Added to my next order

Thanks a lot!

And me too.

 

[lark]

I finnished the book in two (long) evening readings.

There's a good description how P.27/32 produced the Battle in the end.
The books contains an illustrations and photo part in the middle of the book.

Also the use and miss use (and shortsightness) of the Air Ministry and RAF resposibles is well
described.

 

[hesham]

From Putnam book of Westland,and its P27/32 Project.

 

[hole in the ground]

Does anyone have a copy of the actual wording of P27/32, or know where/who I need to look/ask?

 

[Schneiderman]

Does anyone have a copy of the actual wording of P27/32, or know where/who I need to look/ask?

The Canadian national archive holds a good collection of interwar Air Ministry Specifications and can provide copies at a very reasonable price. You have to register there but it is a quick and simple process. I've acquired multiple copies of specifications, including P27/32, from them in recent years in pdf format.
https://www.canada.ca/en/library-archives.html

https://recherche-collection-search...q_exact&q_1=air ministry specification&ecopy=

Which part of the specification wording are you seeking?

 

[hole in the ground]

The Canadian national archive holds a good collection of interwar Air Ministry Specifications and can provide copies at a very reasonable price. You have to register there but it is a quick and simple process. I've acquired multiple copies of specifications, including P27/32, from them in recent years in pdf format.
https://www.canada.ca/en/library-archives.html

https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&idnumber=5035898&q_type_1=q_exact&q_1=air ministry specification&ecopy=

Which part of the specification wording are you seeking?

I've seen lots of summaries of it but I am interested in seeing the actual wording. I've requested it from the UK National Archives in Kew but its not a quick process it seems. How many pages is the full spec by the way?

 

[Schneiderman]

I've seen lots of summaries of it but I am interested in seeing the actual wording. I've requested it from the UK National Archives in Kew but its not a quick process it seems. How many pages is the full spec by the way?

44 pages, including the 12 Corrigenda, plus appendix A, which I do not have.
This will save you the expense

 

[airman]

44 pages, including the 12 Corrigenda, plus appendix A, which I do not have.
This will save you the expense

there are all speficifications they are excpeted to P.27/32 : 195 mph @ 10.000 ft . max of 1500 mile of range .

 

[Schneiderman]

there are all speficifications they are excpeted to P.27/32 : 195 mph @ 10.000 ft . max of 1500 mile of range .

......is there any possibility that you could translate that ?

 

[hole in the ground]

44 pages, including the 12 Corrigenda, plus appendix A, which I do not have.
This will save you the expense

Thank you very much! This is generous of you.

I’m surprised to see that the famous 1000lb over 1000miles at 200mph is entirely missing. The ultimate range with anuxiliary tank of 1500miles is well over twice the original range specified. And the requirement is for a two seat aircraft too.

 

[Schneiderman]

Thank you very much! This is generous of you.

I’m surprised to see that the famous 1000lb over 1000miles at 200mph is entirely missing. The ultimate range with anuxiliary tank of 1500miles is well over twice the original range specified. And the requirement is for a two seat aircraft too.

You're welcome
1000lb over 100miles at 200mph was an outline concept the AM had under consideration in 1930-1931. However Specs P.27/32 and B.9/32 were drawn up later while the Geneva Disarmament Conference was in session and looking at options by which to impose limitations on aspects of bomber forces. The Specifications reflected the draft proposals submitted to the Conference. Those talks basically failed and any possibility to restrict the capabilities of bombers was dropped.

 

[hesham]

The contenders were,

Armstron Whitworth AW.29
Bristol Type-136
Fairey Battle
Gloster Monoplane
Hawker
Vickers Type-246 monoplane
Westland sesquiplane