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British Spec. S.24/37: naval torpedo/dive bomber reconnaissance aircraft

hesham

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from Great Britain:
in S24/37 specification,

for naval torpedo/dive bomber reconnaissance aircraft which led to develope
Fairey Barracuda,anther six companies competed in this competition,
Shorts S-24 and Percival P-25 were from the rivals.

do anyone have a 3-View to them ?.
 

Jemiba

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S24/37 specification:

Strange, I've looked into Tony Buttlers "Secret Projects, Fighters & Bombers 1935-50",
specification S.24.37 is mentioned, but besides the Fairey and the Blackburn entries,
only Hawker, Supermarine, Bristol and Westland are mentioned as contenders.
Maybe Shorts and Percival had designs, which seemed quite suitable to the role, but
didn't submit it to the ministry ? Percival, at least wasn't renowned for combat aircraft,
a submission to this specification probably would have had only a small chance, I think.
 

hesham

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Hi,

yes, in this specification S24/37 were Supermarine-322,Blackburn B-21,B-29
and B-36,Westland P-10 and P-11,Hawker----? and Bristol ----?.
may be the Shorts S-24 and Percival P-25 were for S23/37,but if anyone
have a 3-View to all those projects please send it.
 

lark

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D.H.96 (for hesham)

This was a 1938 layout for a twin engined transport aircraft
based on the D.H.91 Albatross.
There were no detail drawings and the typenumber was ransferred
to a two seat low-wing monoplane to Air Min.Spec.T1/37
and similar to the Miles Magister.

sources De Havilland A.C since 1909 - A J Jackson ,Putnam
De Havilland - Flypast Ref.Library
 

hesham

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Hi,

thanks a lot lark, do you have a drawings to any project in this topic ?.
 

ChuckAnderson

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hesham said:
from Great Britain:
in S24/37 specification,

for naval torpedo/dive bomber reconnaissance aircraft which led to develope
Fairey Barracuda,anther six companies competed in this competition,
Shorts S-24 and Percival P-25 were from the rivals.

do anyone have a 3-View to them ?.

Hi hesham!

I haven't found you a 3-view on the Shorts S-24, but I found a partial description of a Short S.24 Coastal Reconnaissance Project which said only that this aircraft was to have four (4) Pobjoy engines. (Those sound like the engines for the Airspeed Fleet Shadower.)

My source for this information is:
Shorts Aircraft Since 1900
Author: C.H. Barnes
P. 522 (Appendix D -- Short Design Index Numbers (1921-89) )

I'll keep searching for more info!


Chuck
 

hesham

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Thanks Chuck,

but do you know the other rivals in S23/37 ?,with Airspeed AS.39,
Shorts S-24 and Percival P-25.
 

Hardrada55

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Does anyone have any information about the Blackburn torpedo bomber projects B.21, B.29, (off which there are pictures of the a mock-up) or B.36? I would like to see drawings and/or specifications. Also, does anyone have drawings or specs on Fairey's 1937 twin engine carrier based TBR?
 

Hardrada55

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Does anyone have the picture of the mock-up of the Blackburn B-29 tender for the S.24/37 specification?
 

Bailey

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From "Blackburn Aircraft since 1909 - A.J.Jackson - Putnams".

Regards Bailey.
 

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Hood

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ChuckAnderson said:
I haven't found you a 3-view on the Shorts S-24, but I found a partial description of a Short S.24 Coastal Reconnaissance Project which said only that this aircraft was to have four (4) Pobjoy engines. (Those sound like the engines for the Airspeed Fleet Shadower.)

My source for this information is:
Shorts Aircraft Since 1900
Author: C.H. Barnes
P. 522 (Appendix D -- Short Design Index Numbers (1921-89)

In this month's Aeroplane Monthly there is an article on the Short Scion. It states that the S.22 Scion Senior was offered to the Fleet Shadower requirement. The cost of the quoted work to design and fit a folding was deemed too expensive and the design went no further. This must be the S.24. The article also states that a construction number was allocated (by 1937-38 Pobjoy Airmotors and Aircraft Ltd. had acquired the rights from Shorts and had taken over production of the Scion family) but not used.
 

Schneiderman

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Interesting to have that confirmed as S.24 has always been a bit of a gap in the project numbering. However its still a little odd as in the timeline sequence it would have to have been initiated in 1934, at least three years before the spec. was issued. I guess it must have been originally intended for some other purpose ** and then re-jigged to meet the requirement later.
Of course the spec for the Fleet Shadower requirement was S.23/37, completely unrelated to S.24/37

**Supermarine proposed a landplane derivative of the Scapa in 1934 for Coastal Recconnaisance, S.24 may have been initiated to meet the same requirement
 

Hood

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I should clarify my statement as there is still some mystery.
The article states, "An enquiry for adaptation of the design as a slow-flying, escort carrier-based fleet spotter would have required folding wings. The design office worked on it, but in the event the quoted price was too high."
It does not make it clear whether this was based on the Scion or Scion Senior.

The two reserved construction numbers were PA.1006 and PA.1007. These were in a block of Scion IIs built by Pobjoy. The Scion Seniors all had S.xxx construction numbers, though they too were built by Pobjoy. PA.1008 was the last Scion II built and first flew in September 1937 so the date would just about fit for the S.23.37 Spec.

ChuckAnderson's quote from the Shorts Putnam says four Pobjoys and the other two contenders also had four Pobjoys. Therefore my conjecture is that the S.24 was either a Scion Senior or a Scion with a new modified folding wing with four Pobjoys.
 

Schneiderman

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Yes, I would go along with that with the added proviso that in terms of project initiation date S.24 would have to been in 1934, lying between the S.23 'C' class and the S.25 Sunderland. Hence my suggestion that it was originally intended to meet an earlier requirement, and most probably coastal reconnaissance.
 

simmie

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I think the relevant passage from Shorts aircraft since 1900 would be helpful in this discussion.


“Douglas Pobjoy was a clever engineer and an ambitious business man, but was inclined to underrate his customers perspicacity and stick out for too high a price.

One enquiry received was from two naval staff officers who were interested in the possibility of adapting the Scion as a slow flying fleet spotter for convoy protection, based on escort aircraft carrier; for this role folding wings were essential, and in a few days the Scion design office at Rochester worked out a scheme for folding the wing back about a normal rear spar-hinge and then rotating it on a turn table built into the hinge-mounting to lie flat against the fuselage; this projects also featured extra tankage, a camera, light-bomb racks and a downward firing Lewis gun.

Pobjoy knew there was a possibility of getting an order for as many as 50 aircraft if the scheme were approved, but quoted such a high price that the officers walked out without further discussion.”
 

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