Blue Water

[Arjen]

From WhatIfmodellers:

 

[PMN1]

Lawrence

You should try and pick up the Paul Lucas TSR2 book as that covers the various missile proposals that were mooted bassed upon documented evidence from the archives. (Some certainly appear to be very silly such as Slybolt and Polaris !!!)

The word 'desperation' springs to mind......some very interesting drawings in the book though.

 

[Puma11]

I know this was posted ages ago but thought that you enjoy this:

British Pathe Blue Water

 

[bfreer]

I don't know if this is of interest but there were questions as to whether any Blue Water missiles survived and dimensions. I bought this unfinished tail fin ten years ago and got around to cleaning it yesterday when I found several part numbers and an English Electric Guided Weapons inspectors stamp.

It still has four milling holders attached as well as milling lines. it is a two part fin that is riveted together.

Looking at the EE weapons it would appear to be a Blue Water tail fin. From one of the earlier links I pulled a close up of the tail fin. it is the same shape, angles and construction as the one in the link.

So I assume it was unfinished when the project was cancelled and left lying around for 50 years.

It is 76 cm tall and 76 cm wide at the base so ca. 36 inches/2.5 feet.

Of course it could be from another EE development project but square joining attachment is similar to the Blue Water as is the angle matching tail cone.

Thanks
Brian

 

[zen]

Note according to a Ministry document held at Kew Polaris was made possible because of ICI work in the field, this gives yet another twist to what we think of the history of the subject.

This is a very interesting statement and runs counter to the general view of this, though the general view is often based on prejudice and ignorance.

 

[CROMWELL]

Does anyone have information on the "Blue Water" tactical nuclear missile that was developed for the British Army in the 60's?

IIRC it was an English Electric design.

Starviking

I was in the 27th regiment royal artillery in the 1960s the regiment had corporal missiles
We ( 27th regiment) were filmed " operating " the missile

 

[Kiltonge]

From Flight, 16 September 1960

 

[uk 75]

The fate of Blue Water was tied up with the fast pace of NATO tactical nuclear weapons planning.
The UK used the Honest John weapon along with most other large European NATO armies. Uniquely Britain also operated the longer range Corporal. Both used US controlled warheads.
West Germany did not receive Corporal but its air force looked at the longer ranged Mace cruise missile operated in Germany before choosing the Pershing 1.
NATO documents posted here some years back suggested NATO wanted the UK to operate Pershing.
Confusingly the US Army replaced Corporal with the Sergeant system. So in the 60s and 70s both the US and German forces operated Honest John, Sergeant and Pershing 1B.
But a successor to both Honest John and Sergeant had started development when Blue Water was cancelled. Lance took many years to arrive in NATO service but it was a better weapon than either Sergeant or Blue Water.
Lance is mentioned in some accounts of Blue Water's demise.

 

[Kiltonge]

The grainy launch photo to which Flight referred.

 

[Kiltonge]

"Shouldn't it have done something by now, Smithy? You did activate the firing circuit before we left the launcher?"

"I did indeed Sir, but you have to push the launch button twice. The first push energizes the missile's internal power supply and raises the ramp. The second actually fires it."

"Aha. And the warhead arming circuit, can we activate it from here?"

"<sigh>No, Sir, you have to do that on the launcher before pressing this button the first time."

"Oh bugger"

 

[cardonet]

Another photo of the same scene

 

[martinbayer]

Somehow the term Lawn Dart comes to mind...

 

[Kiltonge]

Well a lawn dart with 55 mile range and strap down inertial guidance...

It was immensely superior to the primitive unguided Honest John that was bought in its place for the British Army, and was on the same level as the Lance that eventually succeeded that daft weapon.

So much backpedalling and false economy just to 'save' £32 million, let alone gutting the British guided weapon industry.

 

[TsrJoe]

PRO./TNA. WO 32/18891 'Blue Water'

 

[TsrJoe]

PRO./TNA. AVIA 65/950 'Red Rose'

 

[TsrJoe]

PRO./TNA. AVIA 65/950 'Red Rose' ('Thunderbird' as ASM.)

 

[TsrJoe]

PRO./TNA. WO 32/18891 'Blue Water'

 

[PMN1]

PRO./TNA. WO 32/18891 'Blue Water'

Helicopter launch....I like it.....