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Blue Water

JFC Fuller

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alertken said:
MoS in 1958, then MoA, funding Bristol(GW), then BAC(GW) as Prime, embracing its Bristol ramjet. I think work did not proceed beyond bench bits; MoA encouraged BSEL to attend firstly to Odin for Sea Dart.
In one of the OR.1182 files in the PRO mention is actually made of a proposal to provide Bristol with a contract for R&D of the ramjet for the X-12, I have no idea if the proposal was adopted but it seems to have gone further than the rest of the affair. Interestingly the X-12 appears to double in weight in about 2 years.

I am left wondering whether it could have been made lighter using the BS.1013 integrated ramjet and the Shelldyne fuel of the later Grand Slam II...?
 

CJGibson

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Have seen mention of the FV426 as a launcher for Blue Water. Anyone encountered this before? Have seen FV426 as a vehicle for Orange William, but this is new to me. It's on a list of cargo for the Britannic/HP.111/VC10.

Chris
 

TsrJoe

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there is a drawing of Blue water mounted upon a tracked chassis in one of the files at Kew, I do have a copy of it somewhere, I will see if I can dig it out

cheers, Joe
 

JFC Fuller

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I doubt this helps, but maybe, one of the things I have learnt looking through the file at Kew is that FVRDE would look at every conceivable chassis for a new missile programme and there seems to have been something of a disconnect between FVRDE and the missile people- there is a fascinating FVRDE study about PT.428, suffice to say they didn't like it.
 

CJGibson

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I've seen 'Tracked Blue Water launcher" before on a list of Belfast cargo options but always assumed it to be on a FV432 chassis, but this FV426 came as a bit of a surprise.

I wonder what prompted the change from a tracked TEL to the Bedford wheeled TEL. Ease of movement around West Germany's excellent roads?

Chris
 

Abraham Gubler

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CJGibson said:
I wonder what prompted the change from a tracked TEL to the Bedford wheeled TEL. Ease of movement around West Germany's excellent roads?
Cost and weight as well. Kerb weight of a FV421 was 9 tons and a Bedford MK only 5 tons.
 

uk 75

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I have a couple of questions on this excellent thread:

Was a Blue Water detachment ever proposed for the UK Strategic Reserve (3 Division)?
The US had Little John as a deployable SSM as well as Davy Crockett. Lance was also available in a trailer mounted version.
Blue Water seems quite a big missile system for a mobile force.

The tracked launcher picture would be very interesting. The US deployed Pershing 1 on a tracked system but Sergeant was truck mounted (or was there also an M113 version)?

3 Division with Blue Water and PT428 tracked SAM would have been quite a force (After Suez a bit optimiistic to say the least).
 

JFC Fuller

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First the obvious, the abandonment of the FV420 series in favour of FV432 would have course put a stop to the idea. Secondly, I cant see a significant requirement for sustained manoeuvre across rough ground. The same sort of mobility afford to logistics elements and towed artillery would be more than adequate.
 

uk 75

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The variant on the Alvis Stalwart would have been interesting, especially if PT 428 had ended up on the
same vehicle. They would have been equally useful in
BAOR and 3 Division.
 

PMN1

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Geoff_B said:
Lawrence

You should try and pick up the Paul Lucas TSR2 book as that covers the various missile proposals that were mooted bassed upon documented evidence from the archives. (Some certainly appear to be very silly such as Slybolt and Polaris !!!)
The word 'desperation' springs to mind......some very interesting drawings in the book though.
 
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