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Bloch unbuilt designs and prototypes

Archibald

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Bloch MB-140

Before the war were three families of multi engine Blochs

- the 130 (mediocre twin engine recon aircraft of 1934). (in the end the 134 was the best in the family, but after a huge redesign. It the end, it looked like a scaled-up MB-175).
- the 160 (4 engine airliner, later the MB-161 Languedoc)
- the 170 (twin engine recon / bomber 174 and 175).

The 160 had a bomber derivative, the 162 (for the B5 category, bomber with a crew of 5)

Both the 130 and 170 gave birth to 4-engine light bombers.

The 4- engine derivative of the mediocre 130 was the MB-135. It was better, but still inferior to the Amiot 354 and Leo 451 (despite having 4 engines instead of two!) so it was not produced.

The MB-174 and MB-175 were superb aircrafts. The 174 was used for recon over Germany, and proved immune to the Me-109s (see Flight to Arras ;))

The MB-175 was a bombing variant of the 174, with a decent weapon bay. It came too late, but was used by Vichy, and later by the Aeronavale until 1950.

the MB-140 (here we go!) was to be the four-engine derivative of the MB-175.
Most powerfull engine at the time was the Gnome& rhone 14N with 1080 hp. The 14R was planned for 1942 or so, rated at 1600 hp (this engine ended in failure in 1949).

Performances of the MB-140 were to be superior to the MB-175. It seem that the layout fully benefited from the more engines.
The plane could have carried a 3000 kg warload at 600+ kph over 3000 km. It would have fitted nicely between the Mosquito and "Heavies".

Prototype was started in 1939, and was near completion in june 1940 in a dedicated hangar. Sadly, all was destroyed before the German could seized it. No photos nor plans seems to have survived...
 

hesham

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Dear Archibald,

good work,but do you have informations Bloch unknown aircraft
MB.180 and MB.190 ? please.
 

Apophenia

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Pepe Rezende said:
As a CFS2 developer, I need a good three view image of Bloch MB.162 bomber. Can anyone help me?

Cheers

Pepe
Apologies for the scan quality.

3-view by Dennis Punnet

From William Green's Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft Vol 7, Doubleday 1967.


Just for fun, attached is a wartime version of the Bloch MB-162. Not all that accurate and maybe drawn from description rather than a good quality photo.

Source: William Winter's War Planes of All Nations, Thos Y. Crowell, NY, 1943
 

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Pepe Rezende

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Apophenia said:
Apologies for the scan quality.

Both 3-views are by Dennis Punnet

From William Green's Bombers and Reconnaissance Aircraft Vol 7, Doubleday 1967
Thank you!

Apophenia said:
Just for fun, attached is a wartime version of the Bloch MB-162. Not all that accurate and maybe drawn from description rather than a good quality photo.

Source: William Winter's War Planes of All Nations, Thos Y. Crowell, NY, 1943
It seems the Dewoitine entry at the same contest.

Cheers

Pepe
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Archibald & Hesham, someone has extrapolated drawings of the Bloch MB.140 from well known drawings of the Bloch.175 on page 14 of a thread on this French simulation website....

http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/426102813/m/3891014553/p/14

A little crude; the overwhelming impression is that such a design would have been dominated by its engines! It is difficult to see how a worthwhile bomb payload would have been able to fit in such a slim fuselage given that the MB.140 is a large 4-engined bomber; I wonder if the bombs would have been carried inside the wing centre section instead.........

All best, Terry, (Caravellarella).
 

Apophenia

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Terry,

Interesting notion that some of the bombload might have been carried within the wings. That got me pondering on how many MB 175 parts could be practically retained in the MB 140 (which was presumably the point of this rather dubious design exercise).

In the UBI forum plan view, the MB 175 outer wing panels remain unchanged but, of course, the aelirons would need enlarging. It made me wonder if it mightn't have been simpler to combine the four-engined wings of the MB 135 (perhaps incorporating some 174/175 parts in the outer panels) with the fuselage of the in-production MB 175.
 

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Caravellarella

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Hello again Apophenia, I agree, and I think I must have been mistaken in thinking that the MB.140 was a heavy bomber; it's obviously a smaller, lighter aircraft after all and much more akin to the MB.135.

I am fond of the MB.135 and I wish it had been given the chance to be developed into production; it's such a neat bomber design........

All best, Terry, (Caravellarella).
 

Apophenia

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Hi Terry,

The MB 135 was a perky looking aircraft. ;D

With the air staff concluding that the Leo 45 and Amiot 350s made better medium bombers, it is odd that Bloch persisted with yet another four-engined medium in the MB 140.

Your idea for wing bomb bay would have been a huge improvement over the 175's tiny fuselage bay. But a three-place heavy bomber just can't have been a good idea. Just as well that the MB 140 didn't get any further, I guess.
 

Maveric

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Hi,

any technical data for the M.B.140? ???

Servus :D
 

Archibald

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Guess who did those pictures ? They are mine, and purely fictional alas :(
I've used the various 3-view posted by Saumon along the thread. ;D

Ubisoft is the only forum I've registered in (and I've registered a HUGE number of forums since two years) were I'm not called Archibald , because the name was aparently not available!

The fuselage is Bloch 175 with wings based on the old MB-135 (to have a decent four engine layout)

And I've started to turn this thing into plastic late september, using Heller
MB-174s.
Sadly the project stalled 2 month ago. It is housed in one MB-174 box, I can see it while typing this post :'(
I'd made some photos, maybe I'll post some onto the dedicated section of this forum
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Archibald, my apologies for describing your MB.140 drawings as "crude". I should be more careful.........

All best wishes, Terry, (Caravellarella).
 

Archibald

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Nothing happened. It was the first time I atempted such exercise ;)
 

toura

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Hi all.
I know the M Bloch MB 500 T3.(triplace de travail)
It is a plane which was constructed in 1938. Only
one exemplaire. I know caracteristics and one profil
photo
Could someone have some other(s) photo(s) and three
view drawing.
Thank you if you could help me.
Bye
 

Justo Miranda

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From http://users.telenet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/bib/bib_aircraft.txt

Bloch MB.500
Le Fana de l'Aviation, Mai 1999
 

Archibald

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You can buy past editions of Le Fana by sending a letter to the Editions Larivière.

And be ready for headaches and sleepless nights if you are interested by the Bloch 500!

Indeed the program ran over a very troubled era (from 1936 nationalizations to WWII, then Vichy) hence the aircraft(s) has something like eight differents designations. Number of prototypes is still unclear, photos are scarces.

Kind of holy grail for members of this board in fact !
 

toura

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dear ARCHIBALD
Yes, I've look at "Le Fana" (2 photos but no three views)
and, for me, no many details
I thank you. bye.
 

Maveric

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Can anybody post this or other pics of the M.B.500 and some technical data... :-\
 

airman

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Found, eureka !!! :eek: :eek:
http://www.dassault-aviation.com
go on page passion - click on avions..... ;D ;D
 

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Archibald

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Tell me if you need some translation
 

toura

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Dear Archibald.
I thank you very much, but I understand..I'm French !
My problems are sometimes English !
Thanks. Bye
 

Archibald

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Mort de rire! Désolé (a dire avec la voix du "guignol" Michel Denisot) ;D
 

toura

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Cher archibald
Rien de drole. C'était tres sympa. Merci encore.
 

Andrewjs2007

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Dear All

Anyone know where I can get a good, i.e. fairly accurate, plan for the Bloch MB.154 fighter aircraft which was to have used the Wright R-1820 Cyclone engine?

Thanks


Andrew
 

toura

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Dear Andrewjs
i don't think you find ! Only a study, never build.
Bye
 

airman

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i advise to find on http://richard.ferriere.free.fr/ the bloch 152 and any aircraft with Wright R-1820 Cyclone engine and make a photomontage , for see
how could be appeared the bloch 154 .
I don't think there was much difference with bloch 152 ! ::)
 

toura

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hi Airman
I 've read that the Bloch 154 was a Bloch 152 wainting the American engine
but it not arrive before the colapse of France in june 1940.
Bye
 

airman

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From wikipedia :
MB.134
Prototype with two 820 kW (1,100 hp) Hispano-Suiza L4 AA engines, 1 built.

MB.134

Prototype with two 820 kW (1,100 hp) Hispano-Suiza L4 AA engines, 1 built. Twin-engined light bomber, development of the 131. The Bloch 134 had even better performance than the LeO 451, but the armistice ended. Speed: 570km/h.
(this from http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/bloch-mb131-134/ )

About Bloch mb 134 miss range , photo or plan 3 view :-\
 

Archibald

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http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/426102813/m/3891014553/p/9

This thread has some informations on Bloch pre-WWII bombers.

French pre-WWII designations tend to be a mess, plus Bloch produce lot of bombers designs and prototypes in the 1935-1940 era.

there were three wide families, correspong to Bloch multi-engine airliners or bombers.

- MB-130 derivatives
- MB-160 derivatives
- MB-170 derivatives

MB-130 derivatives

The MB-130 was a BCR - Bomb, Chase, Recon - adopted as a recon plane. 150 were built. Low performances, easy prey for the 109s.
In its first form the MB-134 was not really better, but was soon revived in a shape closer from the MB-170 series. Hence the "block II MB-134" really looked like an enlarged MB-174... but has nothing to do with it. Different line of development.
To complicate matter furthers there was a four engine MB-130 called the MB-135 ! Another competitor for the LeO-451, a prototype was build. Performance was not interesting.

So there two Bloch competitors to the LeO-451, twin and four engine MB-130s !

MB-170 derivatives

the MB-170 series are well-known. The -174 outperformed the 109s, but the bomb bay was too small for anything bigger than 125 kg. Thus Saint Exupery used the Bloch for reconnaissance over Arras ;)
The 175 was accordingly redesigned as a decent bomber... too late. The french navy adopted it as a torpedo bomber after WWII.

The MB-140 was to be a four engine MB-170, with even better performances. Top speed above 600 kph, it would have filled the niche between small Mosquitos and slow Lancasters.

MB-160 derivatives

The MB-160/161 (Bordeaux and Languedoc) were kind of France DC-4.
The bomber variant, dubbed MB-162, was a four-engine "heavy" bomber, B-17 sized.
 

airman

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http://forums-fr.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/426102813/m/3891014553/p/8


found ! ;D

Totally different from Bloch MB131 ! B)
I was expected that was based on core of MB 131 ! ::)
 

Apophenia

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The original Block 134 concept for A21 (powered by twin 1250hp GR 14Ps) more closely resembled the Bloch 131 (although, as Archibald said, there was no actual commonality).

A minor note: as built, the specs mention GN 14N 48/49s and GN 14R 2/3s. The former as flown on the sole 134 B4, the latter as planned for a production version.
 

AeroFranz

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wow! Justo woke up :D!

I am checking out the stuff on the navalized P-51 and the Jindivik. GREAT stuff!!! Thanks!
 

Justo Miranda

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Bloch MB 300

cargo project
source
"Les automitrailleurs de reconnaissance T2-AMR35 Renault" by F.Vauvillier
 

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AeroFranz

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very ingenious. It's interesting to see the evolution of cargo transport before the germans pretty much introduced the formula used today with the likes of the Gigant and the Millipede.
The Italians managed to cram two fighters inside an SM-82, IIRC.
 

Justo Miranda

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Bloch MB 134

Additional info
sources
- "LeO 45,Amiot 350 "by Jean Cuny et Raymond Danel,DOCAVIA Nº23,Editions Larivière
- "Warplanes of the Second Wolrd War-Bombers and reconnaisance aircraft -Volume seven" by William Green ,Macdonald :London 1967
 

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