Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants

[sferrin]

With its big weapons bay could the Arrow have carried the big Hughes missile developed for the YF12A?

Yes. I've compared them 15 years ago, and they matches.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-47.html has AIM-47 length at slightly less than 13 ft, the Arrow bay was 16 ft. As for width, it could have carried two side by side. Three would be too tightly packled.

When I made my Hobbycraft Arrow in Imperial Iran (= Tomcat) AF livery, I dug small recesses into the CF-105 belly and put 4*AIM-47 there - two fore, two aft. There is length aplenty - the bird was HUGE. Wing pylons would be for drop tanks with Sparrows or Sidewinders on side pylons.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/Archibaldlecter/IRIAF%20Arrow/IRIAFCF-105.jpg

Needed a plane as big as the XF-108 to carry three. Apparently there was a folding-fin AIM-47B that would have allowed the F-12B to carry four.

 

[Mike Pryce]

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

A decade after World War Two, Canada built a jet which pushed technology to its limits. But its demise showed why smaller nations found it difficult to compete in the Jet Age.

www.bbc.com

Which records did it break?

Most nonsense spoken about any project?

TSR2 is the main competition.

 

[martinbayer]

Hobbycraft came out with a new tool 1/72 kit in 2012, see https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hobbycraft-hc1393-cf-105-arrow-fighter--145022 and https://www.ipmscanada.com/2012/08/20/hobbycraft-canada-avro-cf-105-arrow-in-172-kit-1393/.

Martin

 

[Archibald]

The record-breaking jet which still haunts a country

A decade after World War Two, Canada built a jet which pushed technology to its limits. But its demise showed why smaller nations found it difficult to compete in the Jet Age.

www.bbc.com

Which records did it break?

Most nonsense spoken about any project?

TSR2 is the main competition.

Blame Randall Whitcomb for a lot of that siliness, for sure. Now there are also valuable people making honorable work (how good is Palmiro Campagna, incidentally ? seem that person has churned a lot of Arrow stuff over the last three decades... ?)

 

[Hobbes]

Hobbycraft came out with a new tool 1/72 kit in 2012, see https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hobbycraft-hc1393-cf-105-arrow-fighter--145022 and https://www.ipmscanada.com/2012/08/20/hobbycraft-canada-avro-cf-105-arrow-in-172-kit-1393/.

Martin

Archibald, don't get your hopes up. This kit is long out of production and very rare. I've had an eBay alert for this kit for over a year and only saw one, which I stopped following when the price went over $60.

 

[Archibald]

Thanks for the tip.

Where is Anigrand when you need them ? CF-105 seems to be perfectly in line with their catalog...

 

[Wanald]

Hello All,
I have seen in some areas on this forum that there has been some things spoken of about the Avro Arrow. If anyone has any info, documents, pics, etc. that they would like to share, it would be greatly appreciated. I am currently trying to do a project on this and thought that maybe I could get some info off of here. Thanks to all that may post something!

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Well, I have a copy of the Flight Manual for example. When you say "do a project" are we talking high school project or degree level project? What kind of detail are you after?

 

[Foo Fighter]

http://jleslie48.com/aastandalone/ A paper model of the Arrow, but still available.

 

[Wanald]

Well, I have a copy of the Flight Manual for example. When you say "do a project" are we talking high school project or degree level project? What kind of detail are you after?

I am talking about High School project and I need lots of info. Thank you for those items too!

 

[uk 75]

The Arrow has been modelled in diecast metal in 1/72 and was also turned into a 1/100 scale toy version.

 

[JimK]

After years of searching one of the free-flight Arrow models that were rocket launched over Lake Ontario has been located. The article shows a sonar image of the model and a picture of one of the Delta Test Vehicles that was recovered in 2017 being cleaned. The story goes into the difficulties of not only locating the artifact, but also recovering and restoring it to display condition.

After decades of failed searches, the 'holy grail' of Avro Arrow artifacts uncovered at the bottom of Lake Ontario

The famous test models of the Avro Arrow were long believed to be lost at the bottom of the lake, and it took four years of searching to find one

nationalpost.com

 

[JohnR]

Did you see the associated article:

Avro Arrow redesign pitched as alternative to F-35 stealth fighter jets

An update to the storied CF-105 Avro Arrow was put forward as an alternative to the purchase of F-35 stealth fighter jets

nationalpost.com

All I can say is WTF. Redesign the airframe, redesign the avionics, adopt or design a new engine and integrate the weapons all as a purely Canadian project!!!!!

 

[Colonial-Marine]

Supposedly the cost estimates came out close to a Canadian F-35 buy, which makes me think the individuals who came up with those cost estimates were under the influence of something.

 

[sferrin]

Did you see the associated article:

Avro Arrow redesign pitched as alternative to F-35 stealth fighter jets

An update to the storied CF-105 Avro Arrow was put forward as an alternative to the purchase of F-35 stealth fighter jets

nationalpost.com

All I can say is WTF. Redesign the airframe, redesign the avionics, adopt or design a new engine and integrate the weapons all as a purely Canadian project!!!!!

Wow. What are they putting in the water up there?

 

[uk 75]

Arrow and TSR2 remain beautiful airframes but as weapon systems they were very expensive and somewhat flawed. Rather like ageing Rock bands they have followed us oldies from first to second childhood.

 

[Archibald]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

 

[Wanald]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

Just sort of turn and twist the look and you could maybe get it a bit more stealthy!

http://www.superarrow.ca/
If you look at this website it gives you a bit of an idea what the arrow could possibly look like now. It sort of looks like the Su 35 with the hump back!

 

[royabulgaf]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by F-15 performance. I'm sure the Arrow could outrun the Eagle, but it was designed to shoot down Soviet Supersonic heavy bombers. However the Eagle could fly rings around it. Unless it's carrying true fire and forget missiles, it would be hard pressed to handle medium fighter bombers such as the various Sukhois, MiGs, and yes, Eagles that make up today's air forces.

 

[Archibald]

I'm not sure what you mean by F-15 performance. I'm sure the Arrow could outrun the Eagle

You nailed it. As interceptor, yes.

 

[Foo Fighter]

" http://www.superarrow.ca/ ". They are a weird bunch but honestly, it seems to be a very cynical scam to acquire your money. They even acknowledge that one model is a butchered YF-23.

 

[Wanald]

" http://www.superarrow.ca/ ". They are a weird bunch but honestly, it seems to be a very cynical scam to acquire your money. They even acknowledge that one model is a butchered YF-23.

Yeah, understood. It just boosts your imagination as to what it could look like today!

 

[Foo Fighter]

" Yeah, understood. It just boosts your imagination as to what it could look like today"!

1. We want to know about you, who you are, why you want one, what your occupation is, who you want to show it to and why?

2. The model does not leave Canadian soil.



Once cleared, each 1:48 scale is $750.00 CAD + $50.00 shipping/handling + GST.

Total: $840.00 CAD

1:32 scale is $1300.00 + $75.00 for shipping/handling + GST.

Total: $1443.75

Not so much for boosting anyone's imagination as to boosting their access to your money. Paranoia or trying to make out there is a serious likelihood of anything happening without billions of dollars and a huge change of government/government policy.

I'm sure there are folk out there in many countries making similar claims but they are probably securely housed.

 

[galgot]

"Our path is the unorthodox one, yet one in which we retain absolute security over our work. No information will be disclosed pertaining to any details regarding the Super Arrow Program…other than she is making very nice progress."

"...however for right now, we are going deeper into the Canadian shadows."


Maybe this is a hint that Canada has a super secret Super Arrow factory hidden under North Pole, producing dozen/month .

 

[Foo Fighter]

Whatever it is I am pretty sure the truth is out there. Whether Scummy and Mouldy will be on the jopb is anyone's guess. OOOOOOOh, there be wailing aliens out there in the wilds.

For the sake of simplicity, why not buy the rights to the F-23 and call that Son of Arrow or something?

 

[uk 75]

Meanwhile I wandered into my favourite BD comic bookshop in Brussels and found the answer....

 

[Wanald]

Meanwhile I wandered into my favourite BD comic bookshop in Brussels and found the answer....

LOL
And in reply to foo fighter, yeah I know what you mean. All I was looking at was the pics, not the content on the website. Your right, the owners probably are related to huawei!! LOL
Anyways, there isn't much point in hoping cause the government isn't that interesting in trying to defend Canada atm... Too busy arguing over guns, WE, and other useless things like that.

 

[uk 75]

To my friends in Canada (home of my favourite animal, the Polar Bear, also available near Doncaster) I do feel your pain. I have several models of the Arrow (including RAF coloured ones). But relief is at hand these chaps get it too

Avro CF-105 Arrow

Avro CF-105 Arrow

beyondthesprues.com

 

[Wanald]

To my friends in Canada (home of my favourite animal, the Polar Bear, also available near Doncaster) I do feel your pain. I have several models of the Arrow (including RAF coloured ones). But relief is at hand these chaps get it too

Avro CF-105 Arrow

Avro CF-105 Arrow

beyondthesprues.com

Nice pics! Yeah, well... That pic of the f18 and the arrow was taken a bit ago. Since that picture, they have lost interest in it, the arrow I mean.
Anyways, enjoy your polar bears in doncaster, uk 75.

 

[sferrin]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by F-15 performance. I'm sure the Arrow could outrun the Eagle,

I'm not. What's the fastest the Arrow ever went?

 

[Wanald]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by F-15 performance. I'm sure the Arrow could outrun the Eagle,

I'm not. What's the fastest the Arrow ever went?

Roughly mach 2.

 

[Apophenia]

Roughly mach 2.

Yep. Top speed hit during trials was Mach 1.98 at 50,000 feet by RL202. Note that this was with Pratt & Whitney J75-P-3 turbojets, not the more powerful Orenda PS.13 Iroquois (23,500 lbf vs 25,600 lbf).

 

[uk 75]

If you have a spare Arrow airframe knocking around the lads here are quite playful

Polar Bears | Animals | Yorkshire Wildlife Park

Meet the largest collection of Polar Bears in the UK!

www.yorkshirewildlifepark.com

 

[Wanald]

Would that bear on the present topic?
I reckon we could say paws off?!?

 

[Archibald]

The Arrow was planned for Mach 2.5 and has the titanium structure to withstand it. And the Iroquois promised to be immensely powerful. The Mach 1.96 speed run was with the J75s, climbing yet still accelerating: pilot Spud Potocki stopped it out of cautiousness.

 

[royabulgaf]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

Just sort of turn and twist the look and you could maybe get it a bit more stealthy!

http://www.superarrow.ca/
If you look at this website it gives you a bit of an idea what the arrow could possibly look like now. It sort of looks like the Su 35 with the hump back!

I looked at the website. It's by people with a lot of time on their hands for people with too much money.

 

[Wanald]

The Phantom is still providing stellar service to Japan, Iran, South Korea, Turkey...

On paper at least an Arrow with modern engines and radar would have good performance, F-15 at least. Alas, stealth it is not, by any mean.
Note that the Arrow analog FWB was quite similar to all Mirage 2000s and pre-block 50 F-16. A lot of them still in service worldwide.

But admitedly a 2012 rebuild make no sense at all.

Just sort of turn and twist the look and you could maybe get it a bit more stealthy!

http://www.superarrow.ca/
If you look at this website it gives you a bit of an idea what the arrow could possibly look like now. It sort of looks like the Su 35 with the hump back!

I looked at the website. It's by people with a lot of time on their hands for people with too much money.

Yeah... wouldnt buy anything from them personally....

 

[flateric]

Canada’s Jet-Age Dream: The Avro Arrow - Google Arts & Culture

Google Arts & Culture features content from over 2000 leading museums and archives who have partnered with the Google Cultural Institute to bring the world's treasures online.

artsandculture.google.com

 

[flateric]

from https://www.facebook.com/media/set?vanity=185074551545244&set=a.185169714869061

 

[Archibald]

Looks like RL-204 had many lives... that peculiar Arrow seemingly guessed the program doom and tried to escape.
...
THRICE.
...
18 days before the Black friday, it landed at Trenton RCAF base. Unfortunately, it was brought back to Malton and ultimately melted.

Yet it tried to escape again.

Canadian Aviation Historical Society

cahs.ca

One of the most enduring elements of the Avro Arrow myth was the tale of the “one that got away.” The story was perpetuated by a Maclean’s magazine article by reporter June Callwood that appeared shortly after the Arrow’s cancellation. Callwood, like many of the period, was enamoured with the aircraft; she once wrote, “it was the most beautiful plane I will ever see… When it lifted straight up into the sky, a slim white arrowhead, it was poetry. I never saw it take off without my eyes stinging…” She had flown in the B-47/Orenda testbed and knew one morning when she was startled awake by the roar of an Arrow’s engines filling the sky above her, that, as she wrote, “someone had flown an Arrow to safety.” Most Avroites knew the truth. None had escaped the wrath of the demolition crew’s axes.

But one Avro engineer had almost pulled it off.

The date was April 22, 1959. Gerry Barbour, an Avro Aircraft engineer in the Lofting Department, where blueprint drawings were scribed on metal sections before being cut out, was furious at the decision to cancel the Arrow, but was even more enraged by the scrapping of all the aircraft. As he watched foreman Al Cox begin the butchering of the five flying examples, Barbour formulated an elaborate heist. He had access to the high-security area where he would steal a “mule” (a small tow truck) and tow one of the complete airframes to a horse-breeding farm he had in mind as a hiding place. His plans had gone as far as imagining his friend, Lorne Ursel, as the pilot of the aircraft. He settled on RL-204 as his target. This Arrow sat at the end of the row and unlike RL-205 which was flat on its belly, looked complete. RL-202, RL-203, and 201 were in pieces, but his early morning tour of the area confirmed that the RL-204 was intact. Barbour even mused to his boss, Wilhelm “Woo” Shaw, about the possibility of a plan like his working.


Signing in that evening at the security gate was no problem, and Barbour immediately deked out of the hangar and slipped into the experimental flight test section. Moving stealthily in the dark along the row of Arrows, he stumbled noisily over the remains of RL-201’s wings. Pausing for a few moments to ensure he hadn’t been heard, Barbour found a set of tools he needed in a tool crib and prepared a mule. Returning to RL-204 to hitch up the tow bar, he stared into the darkness, trying to make out its shape. Something was wrong. The plane hunched down on its front undercarriage leg, but the nose wheel had been cut off. Shaw! Now Barbour remembered on his morning visit that he had seen his boss take the foreman off to the side. Abandoning the mule, he stormed off in a rage. When the guard at the gatehouse greeted him with the request to sign out, he angrily refused and stalked off into the night. It would be the last time that he saw the Arrows.