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Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants

blackkite

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Hi!
The Avro Arrow: A Picture History, Lawrence Miller

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=7eWUzlBMAc0C&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=avro+canada+cf-103&source=bl&ots=kaASjtJxuv&sig=JVESkYPd52Ew6Qg4nw1Kec9F2No&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz0veqkoDTAhWJabwKHccRBt04FBDoAQg-MAU#v=onepage&q=avro%20canada%20cf-103&f=false
 

Petrus

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You may find it interesting, for it contains info (incl. drawings) of C104 versions, details of CF-105 and even info on planned infrastructure at RCAF bases.

https://documents.techno-science.ca/documents/CASM-Aircrafthistories-AvroCanadaCF-105Arrownose.pdf

Piotr
 

hesham

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Petrus said:
You may find it interesting, for it contains info (incl. drawings) of C104 versions, details of CF-105 and even info on planned infrastructure at RCAF bases.

https://documents.techno-science.ca/documents/CASM-Aircrafthistories-AvroCanadaCF-105Arrownose.pdf

Piotr
Amazing find my dear Pertrus.
 

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blackkite

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Petrus said:
You may find it interesting, for it contains info (incl. drawings) of C104 versions, details of CF-105 and even info on planned infrastructure at RCAF bases.

https://documents.techno-science.ca/documents/CASM-Aircrafthistories-AvroCanadaCF-105Arrownose.pdf

Piotr
Thanks a lot. What a surprising document it is!! :eek:

Also enjoy this. ;)
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=617.0;attach=577181;image
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Source : AIR ENTHUSIAST 89.
 

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Petrus

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Here you've got what the Flight magazine wrote on the Arrow in 1957.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1957/1957%20-%201559.html
 

blackkite

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Hi!

How the Avro Arrow was built.(Video)
http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/how-the-avro-arrow-was-built

Construction and unveiling of the Arrow(Video).
http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/construction-and-unveiling-of-the-arrow-no-audio

Iroquois engine rollout.(Picture)
https://issuu.com/tikit/docs/iroquoisrollout


Side view source, Missiles : 8 Hughes Falcon or 4 Douglas Sparrow Ⅱs(Cancelled).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Fhm-i5ol8CA/UMZIDXgT5LI/AAAAAAAAAyk/1HbDxQYqsN0/s1600/profil.jpg

Control panel.
http://scaa.usask.ca/gallery/arrow/view_image.php?image=47
http://www.simulshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=545
Boundary layer control.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?697296-Scratch-build-Avro-Arrow/page8
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-KrLvO3IpY
 

Petrus

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And this picture (from the document referred to at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,729.msg303325.html#msg303325) explains why the canopies of the Arrow's cockpit opened in such an extraordinary way. The crew apparently would get into the cockpit not from below, using ladders (as in many other jet-fighters), but rather from above, coming to the place via the catwalk leading from the crew-room at the 'Q shed' (as it is called in the RAF).

;)

Piotr
 

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blackkite

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Hi! Arrow Mk.1 diagram.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fZeYC-QUMuU/U_wCZ5_zjfI/AAAAAAAAEC4/InBVEXsogdw/s1600/Avro-Arrow-diagram.jpg
 

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royabulgaf

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I was wondering about the canopy lately. What is the advantage of getting into the aircraft from the catwalk in the Q shed versus a ladder? When they have to get out, does the ground crew have to back the aircraft into the shed? OK, I get that you save a few seconds but the rest of the time it would be a pain in the ass. You also get one more canopy seam to seal.
 

Grey Havoc

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With regards as to the Arrow replica that used to be at the (currently closed) Canadian Air and Space museum: http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66829
 

Archibald

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Wait, the aviation museum of Canada has closed ?
 

TomS

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Archibald said:
Wait, the aviation museum of Canada has closed ?
The Canadian Air And Space Museum in Toronto closed in 2011. The Canadian Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa is still open.
 

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TomS

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I'm not seeing the VTOL here. Zero-length launch just refers to the use of Rocket assist and a launch rail to get a basically conventional aircraft airborne without a runway. Landing would still require a strip of some sort.
 

hesham

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Johnbr said:
Vertical take-off and landing Avro Arrow, A.V. Roe Canada Ltd., 1958.
Nice find John,and I displayed some of them in reply # 82.
 

Archibald

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Okay so some words about that connexion between the Arrow and France (Dassault). I checked on google books and now the picture gets clearer. Dassault considered the PS.13 Iroquois TWICE
- for the Mirage IVB, the fat Mirage IV that didn't needed KC-135s
And another time, before that date.
The Mirage III was frozen around the Atar 9 early 1957 but the twin Atar 9 Mirage IVA took two more years.

Between these two dates the Mirage IV design somewhat "floated" around three major designs
- a twin Atar 9 heavy fighter the size of a Phantom - the AdA said "no thanks = the fighter is the Mirage III, the two-atar will become a bomber > Mirage IV-01 and IV-A
- the Mirage IVB monster
- a single-engine fighter with only ONE engine - a scaled-up Mirage III called the Mirage IVC which encompassed both F-106 and Phantom, single and two seater, one or two engine.
Well, that's where the Iroquois enters the picture. Dassault, quite simply, wanted his own... F-106. A scaled-up Mirage IIIC that would need 9 to 12 tons of thrust. The Iroquois was right there. SNECMA was nowhere to be found.
What is quite interesting is to think that between 1956 and 1960 the Mirage III family encompassed many sizes - broadly > FD-2, F-106, Arrow, TSR-2, and B-58 in size and weights.

imagine, if the Arrow had been canned yet SNECMA had rescued Orenda and taken a licence for the Iroquois... hostie de callisse de chrisse, tabernacle, how cool would that be...
 

GTX

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- a single-engine fighter with only ONE engine - a scaled-up Mirage III called the Mirage IVC which encompassed both F-106 and Phantom, single and two seater, one or two engine.
Well, that's where the Iroquois enters the picture. Dassault, quite simply, wanted his own... F-106. A scaled-up Mirage IIIC that would need 9 to 12 tons of thrust. The Iroquois was right there.
That would be an interesting design. Do you have any more information?
 

Archibald

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Maybe I have a picture in one of Jean Cuny book from the 80's... there must be further pictures in all those recent, fabulous books about Mirages.

My earlier phrase was unclear. I wanted to say the Mirage IVC existed in both single-engine (bigger Mirage IIIC) and two-engine (small Mirage IVA) variants. The former would have been F-106 like, the later was more like a Phantom, except with delta wing. Smaller than the Arrow which really huge.
It was really a bridge between the III-C and the IV-A.

attached some pages of Cuny books related to the varied Mirage IV, the naval one included.
 

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edwest

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It doesn't contain drawings but the book, Requiem for a Giant by Palmiro Campagna, exposes the decision to cancel the Arrow. Apparently, the US convinced Canada to not buy, or build, l,ocal.
 

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uk 75

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With its big weapons bay could the Arrow have carried the big Hughes missile developed for the YF12A?
Although it was not possible in real life the Arrow looks so right in the early 60s high visibility RAF Lightning squadron colours. Some years ago I had couple of 1/72 scale kits made up for me in those colours. They are in store at the moment.
 

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I wish I could find a detailed account about the CF-105 Arrow analog FBW - how and who invented that, and its legacy (IMHO, it went into the Mercury and Gemini capsules). Was there any relation to the Concorde system (1969) ?

Incidentally, were Dynasoar controls full analog FBW ?

In Computers take flight, the author(s) made very clear nobody knew about the Arrow in 1971. Both NASA or USAF modifying Crusaders or Phantoms into FBW laboratories, were unaware of that previous achievement.
(page 32, 47, 62, 80 )
 

Archibald

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With its big weapons bay could the Arrow have carried the big Hughes missile developed for the YF12A?
Yes. I've compared them 15 years ago, and they matches.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-47.html has AIM-47 length at slightly less than 13 ft, the Arrow bay was 16 ft. As for width, it could have carried two side by side. Three would be too tightly packled.

When I made my Hobbycraft Arrow in Imperial Iran (= Tomcat) AF livery, I dug small recesses into the CF-105 belly and put 4*AIM-47 there - two fore, two aft. There is length aplenty - the bird was HUGE. Wing pylons would be for drop tanks with Sparrows or Sidewinders on side pylons.

 
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uk 75

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Did anybody ever made a better 1/72 scale kit for the Arrow than the old Hobbycraft (hobbycrap ?) piece of junk ? during my Arrowmaniac period (2001-2004) I made two of them, enough to hate this kit for the rest of my life...
 

uk 75

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My two are the old Hobby ones. Sadly bits keep falling off them. I also have a Philippine desk model with undercart which didnt work out too well. Its in the same scheme as the one above..The kits are in RAFG green and 74sqn Tiger black tail scheme.
I also have a very heavy diecast Hobbymaster 1/72 scale version which was made a while back and is hard to find. There is also a crude metal toy version in about 1/144 and various 1/200 models.
I remain an Arrow fan and it fits nicely into my crazy 1975 world.
 

sferrin

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With its big weapons bay could the Arrow have carried the big Hughes missile developed for the YF12A?
Yes. I've compared them 15 years ago, and they matches.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-47.html has AIM-47 length at slightly less than 13 ft, the Arrow bay was 16 ft. As for width, it could have carried two side by side. Three would be too tightly packled.

When I made my Hobbycraft Arrow in Imperial Iran (= Tomcat) AF livery, I dug small recesses into the CF-105 belly and put 4*AIM-47 there - two fore, two aft. There is length aplenty - the bird was HUGE. Wing pylons would be for drop tanks with Sparrows or Sidewinders on side pylons.

Needed a plane as big as the XF-108 to carry three. Apparently there was a folding-fin AIM-47B that would have allowed the F-12B to carry four.
 

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