Arsenal VG-30 variants

[blackkite]

Hi! Arsenal VG-30 variants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_VG-33

"The Arsenal VG-33 was one of a series of fast French light fighter aircraft under development at the start of World War II, but which matured too late to see extensive service in the French Air Force during the Battle of France.

VG-30 – The original powerplant was the Potez 12Dc flat-12 air-cooled inline engine, but the prototype was fitted with a Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs, and flew in this form in October 1938.
VG-31 – Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 powered prototype.
VG-32 – Allison V-1710C-15 powered prototype.
VG-33 – First production model with Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 engine (160 near completion at Fall of France. Unknown number completed.)
VG-34 – 697 kW (935 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine. 360 mph (600 km/h). Prototype only.
VG-35 – VG-33 variant with newer engine. One built.
VG-36 – 746 kW (1,000 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 engine. Prototype only.
VG-37 – Extended-range version of the VG-36. Not built.
VG-38 – projected for Hispano-Suiza 12Y-77 engine. Not built.
VG-39 – 954 kW (1,280 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Z engine. 393 mph (655 km/h). 6x 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns. Prototype only.
VG-39bis – proposed production version powered by a Hispano-Suiza 12Z-17.
VG-40 – projected variant powered by a Rolls Royce Merlin III.
VG-50 – projected variant powered by an Allison V-1710-39. (N.B. The designation VG 50 was also used for a projected four-engined trans-atlantic transport)
VG-60 – The ultimate projected variant powered by a 1,000 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 supercharged by a two-stage Sidlowsky-Planiol turbo-charger."

http://rejpalek.blog.cz/0908/arsenal-vg-32

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/vg30.html

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://maquettes17.eklablog.com/arsenal-vg-33-36-39-a100706467

VG70!!!???

https://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/arsenal_de_l_aeronautique.pdf

 

[blackkite]

https://www.aviarmor.net/aww2/projects/fra/arsenal_vg60.htm
"Arsenal VG-60 Fighter
At the beginning of the year 1940 l'Arsenal experts developed several promising projects light fighters, which served as a base for the production model VG-33. In addition to pure aerodynamic forms these aircraft differed sufficiently powerful armament and propulsion system of high power. The French did not have enough engineers to literally years to start their projects, one of which was the VG-60.

It was assumed that the new fighter will make the best design solutions from earlier models and reach higher levels. Under the scheme it was an all-metal low-wing monoplane layout and development. Key racks and wheel chassis completely folded in the wing and Center-wing and tail roller was poluubiraemym and in flight shut down by a semicircular flap. In contrast to other variants of a cockpit pidota (drop-shaped) was executed. The plane was scheduled to install row engine type liquid-cooled Hispano-Siuza capacity of not less than 1200 HP it would leave 60 VG-designed maximum speed on the order of 700 km/h.

An unusually potent was picked up composition. According to the draft in wing consoles been eight 12.7 mm machine guns, and the breakdown of engine cylinders set 20-mm gun motor. Thus, the mass of the second salvo of VG-60 left far behind Bf 109 any modification and surpassed American P-47.

Development of the model was started too late and by June 1940, was ready only a preliminary sketch. In the years of occupation, work on the project has been completely stopped, but after the war to VG-60 decided to come back again. Since the full-scale production of its own engines only time and nemeckjo products lacked abundantly, there were plans to install at Jumo 213E engine fighter. However, even preliminary calculations showed that the power plant just doesn't pull planned 700 km/h, and other performance indicators also inevitably declined (as demonstrated by the Czechoslovak experience with Bf 109 g all these pasenija were confirmed in full as). After some discussion, in the summer of 1945 year it was decided to abandon further work on VG-60 and to give priority to the development of rocket technology.

Sources:
http://www.unicraft.biz/on/vg60/vg60.htm
Drawings isterbitelja Arsenal VG-60

Project tactical-technical data fighter Arsenal VG-60:
Length: 10.00 m
Wingspan-12.00 m
Wing area-22.17 sq. m.
Wing loading-?
Height-?
Empty weight-?
Take-off weight-3488 kg
Maximum speed is around 700 km/h
The speed of the Earth is?
Rate of climb-?
Engine-one row Hispano-Suiza
Crew-1 person
Armament: one 20-mm-cannon motor and eight 12.7 mm machine guns in the wing"

 

[hesham]

I posted most of those Projects before,you repeat it again ?!.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi

 

[blackkite]

Thanks a lot!! Excellent drawings.
Justo-san, I see another VG39 drawing which have more complicated fuselage bottom line.
Anyway VG30 series radiator system design is very impressive.
What is written about VG36 radiator system?
VG60 radiator is very big. Why?

https://www.pinterest.jp/pin/97108935694425414/?lp=true

 

[Justo Miranda]

More powerful engines: Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 and Jumo 213E

 

[blackkite]

Wow!! Excellent information and amazing drawings as usual.
Thank you very much again.

 

[athpilot]

More powerful engines: Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 and Jumo 213E

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I´m curious on your new Book on Panic Fighters.
Greetings

P.S.: Some time ago you gave us a list of your upcoming publications. I can´t find it anymore. So can you please tell if there is another book "in the pipeline" after the release of the panic fighters? Thanks!

 

[hesham]

Many thanks to you my dear Justo Miranda,

but can I ask you if they are a real Projects or only a speculative designs ?,I have
a small info that the VB.10 was developed to anther 7 concepts,but they were not
one of them ?,the only earlier tailless airplane Project for Arsenal is this.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Many thanks to you my dear Justo Miranda,

but can I ask you if they are a real Projects or only a speculative designs ?,I have
a small info that the VB.10 was developed to anther 7 concepts,but they were not
one of them ?,the only earlier tailless airplane Project for Arsenal is this.

Real projects

 

[Justo Miranda]

More powerful engines: Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 and Jumo 213E

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I´m curious on your new Book on Panic Fighters.
Greetings

P.S.: Some time ago you gave us a list of your upcoming publications. I can´t find it anymore. So can you please tell if there is another book "in the pipeline" after the release of the panic fighters? Thanks!


In the pipeline 2019 :Fighters of the Dying Sun, The Most Advanced Japanese and Allied Fighters of the Second World War
In project: Dark Secrets of the Cold War (The Sonic Barrier, Stealth, anti-radiation techniques,Flying Saucers Myth,etc)
In project: German and Allied Night Fighters combat tactics and radar war.

 

[hesham]

Real projects

Many thanks to you my dear Justo.

 

[athpilot]

More powerful engines: Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 and Jumo 213E

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I´m curious on your new Book on Panic Fighters.
Greetings

P.S.: Some time ago you gave us a list of your upcoming publications. I can´t find it anymore. So can you please tell if there is another book "in the pipeline" after the release of the panic fighters? Thanks!


In the pipeline 2019 :Fighters of the Dying Sun, The Most Advanced Japanese and Allied Fighters of the Second World War
In project: Dark Secrets of the Cold War (The Sonic Barrier, Stealth, anti-radiation techniques,Flying Saucers Myth,etc)
In project: German and Allied Night Fighters combat tactics and radar war.

Cool! B) The future is looking great. I get goosebumps...

 

[xylstra]

Hi! Arsenal VG-30 variants.

Arsenal VG-33 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Arsenal VG-33 was one of a series of fast French light fighter aircraft under development at the start of World War II, but which matured too late to see extensive service in the French Air Force during the Battle of France.

VG-30 – The original powerplant was the Potez 12Dc flat-12 air-cooled inline engine, but the prototype was fitted with a Hispano-Suiza 12Xcrs, and flew in this form in October 1938.
VG-31 – Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 powered prototype.
VG-32 – Allison V-1710C-15 powered prototype.
VG-33 – First production model with Hispano-Suiza 12Y-31 engine (160 near completion at Fall of France. Unknown number completed.)
VG-34 – 697 kW (935 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Y-45 engine. 360 mph (600 km/h). Prototype only.
VG-35 – VG-33 variant with newer engine. One built.
VG-36 – 746 kW (1,000 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 engine. Prototype only.
VG-37 – Extended-range version of the VG-36. Not built.
VG-38 – projected for Hispano-Suiza 12Y-77 engine. Not built.
VG-39 – 954 kW (1,280 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Z engine. 393 mph (655 km/h). 6x 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns. Prototype only.
VG-39bis – proposed production version powered by a Hispano-Suiza 12Z-17.
VG-40 – projected variant powered by a Rolls Royce Merlin III.
VG-50 – projected variant powered by an Allison V-1710-39. (N.B. The designation VG 50 was also used for a projected four-engined trans-atlantic transport)
VG-60 – The ultimate projected variant powered by a 1,000 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51 supercharged by a two-stage Sidlowsky-Planiol turbo-charger."

http://rejpalek.blog.cz/0908/arsenal-vg-32

Arsenal VG-30/33

There is an excellent YouTube video on this very subject, see:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOrqVZ9Kp7I

 

[hesham]

There is an excellent YouTube video on this very subject, see:

And there is more of them in my new book.

 

[airman]

a interesting article from warthunder forum https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/559134-arsenal-vg-32-brother-to-the-vg-33/

 

[foiling]

Hi

Outstanding art.

 

[Justo Miranda]

- On 15 June 1936 l'Armée de l'Air high command published the Chasseur Monoplace C.1 specification, calling for a single-seat fighter capable of flying at 500 kph at an altitude of 4,000 m, reaching 8,000 m. ceiling in less than 15 minutes. Intended to replace the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406, the new fighter should be powered by a 935 hp Hispano-Suiza H.S. 12Y-45, 12-cylinder ‘Vee’ liquid-cooled engine and armed with one cannon and two machine guns.

Upon learning of the performances of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 B-1, that the Germans had started to manufacture in the fall of 1936, the C.1 specification was amended as Program Technique A23 (12 January 1937) calling for 520 kph maximum speed and armament increase to one 20 mm Hispano-Suiza H.S.404 cannon and four 7.5 mm MAC 34 M39 belt-feed machine guns. Four prototypes were produced to fulfil the requirement: The Morane-Saulnier M.S.450, the S.N.A.C.A.O. 200, the Arsenal VG 33 and the Dewoitine D.520.

By January 1938, French intelligence services estimated the Luftwaffe strength at 2,850 modern aircraft, including 850 fighters. In response the Ministère de l'Air issued the Plan V (15 March 1938) to increase the inventory of the Armée de l'Air to 2,617 aircraft, including 1,081 fighters, to equip 32 Groupes de Chasse and 16 Escadrilles Régionales. But on 1 April 1939 l'Armée de l'Air had only 104 M.S.405/406, one Bloch M.B.151 and 42 Curtiss H.75A and none of these fighters reached the 500 kph.

The M.S.450 prototype was an aerodynamically improved version of the M.S.406. It could fly at 560 kph propelled by an 1,100 hp H.S.12 Y-51 engine, but the Ministère de l'Air did not want to interrupt the manufacturing of the M.S.410 and dismissed its production.

The C.A.O. 200 reached the 550 kph with the same engine than the M.S. 406, but its production was also dismissed due to a longitudinal instability revealed during test flights in August 1939. During the Battle of France the prototype participated in the Villacoublay defence, armed with a H.S. 404, managing to shoot down a Heinkel He 111 on 15 June 1940.

The Arsenal VG 30 was designed as a light fighter to fulfil the Chasseur Monoplace C.1 (3 June 1937) specification that called for a small fighter propelled by one 690 hp Hispano-Suiza H.S.12 X crs engine and armed with one 20 mm H.S.9 cannon and two 7.5 mm MAC 34A drum-feed machine guns, from the obsolete Dewoitine D.510 fighters. Anticipating the possibility of a long attrition war, the VG 30 was built in wood/plywood, not to compete with the conventional fighters in the use of strategic materials. It could be manufactured in the third part of the time than an M.S. 406 for 630,000 F, a 75 per cent of the price of a Bloch M.B.152.

On October 1938, the VG 30-01 prototype reached a maximum speed that was 30 kph higher than that of the M.S.406, propelled by a less powerful 180 hp engine. It was estimated that it could fly at 560 kph with the engine of the M.S.406 and the VG 33 prototype, armed with one H.S. 404 and four MAC 34 M39, was built with that purpose.

Fifteen days after the declaration of war on Germany the S.N.C.A. du Nord received a commission for the manufacture of 220 units of the VG 33, later expanded to 500. Deliveries to l’Armée de l’Air should start at the beginning of 1940. But there were problems with the import of spruce from Canada and Romania and only seven planes entered combat between 18 and 25 June 1940, carrying out 36 missions with the GC I/55. The VG 33 outperformed the Bf 109 E-1 in manoeuvrability and fire power and was almost as fast with a less powerful 240 hp engine.

On 20 January 1940, the VG 34-01 prototype reached 590 kph, powered by one H.S.12 Y-45.

In February the VG 35-01 flew powered by a 1,100 hp H.S.12 Y-51 engine and the decision was taken to start the production of the VG 32, propelled by the American engine Allison V-1710 C-15, but only a prototype was eventually built before the German attack. In May, the VG 36-01 flew with a 1,100 hp H.S.12 Y-51. The VG 39-01 flew during the same month, propelled by a 1,200 hp H.S.12 Z reaching the 625 kph.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-2

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-3

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-4

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-5

 

[JimK]

A little better cutaway and inboard profile of the VG33:

 

[chercheuravions]

Hello, I was searching for document about where the cannons of the vg.32 were supposed to be, but I didn't find any blueprints of him

 

[chercheuravions]

I just found this, but no more :
do someone have some informations or drawing of top and front view?

 

[Nik]

That's an attractive design ! Nice wide track, fair weaponry, looks 'balanced'..
But, sadly, as with too many of the French designs, a couple of years too late, yet again, yet again...

 

[chercheuravions]

That's an attractive design ! Nice wide track, fair weaponry, looks 'balanced'..
But, sadly, as with too many of the French designs, a couple of years too late, yet again, yet again...

yes, he has a nice look, like an arrow, the family of arsenal vg is obviously one of the most beautiful in the ww2, he has simple curved lines, but so evident, he correspond to the marcel dassault citation: "A beautiful plane is a plane that flies well", the armement of two 20mm guns and two machineguns is also a clever choice, but I didn't see another view of this plane, from a different point of view.
And yes, as always, too late...

 

[dan_inbox]

I didn't see another view of this plane, from a different point of view.

Here you go:

 

[elbmc1969]

Hello, I was searching for document about where the cannons of the vg.32 were supposed to be, but I didn't find any blueprints of him

Propeller hub, AFAIK.

 

[chercheuravions]

I didn't see another view of this plane, from a different point of view.

Here you go:

I'm sorry, but it's not the vg 32, look the difference :

 

[chercheuravions]

Hello, I was searching for document about where the cannons of the vg.32 were supposed to be, but I didn't find any blueprints of him

Propeller hub, AFAIK.

I don't think so, lot of sources says that the allison can't contain the 20mm gun, they found for solution to take 2 guns of 20mm hs404 and 2 machinegun of 7,5mm darne 34/39

 

[chercheuravions]

also, I took my volume one of william green books, and it's said : "the proposed production model of the vg-32 was to have employed the vg-36 fuselage and the the VG-39 wings, but armament was to have been restricted to six 7,5mm machine guns owing the inability of the allison V-1710-C15 engine to take the 20-mm cannon"

So, it's also give the question of: what is the source for the idea of two 20mm cannons? And if it's verified that it's not a what if of today but a real proposal during conception and construction of the prototype, was it just an idea, and not retained for production, like a variant?

 

[chercheuravions]

There is an excellent YouTube video on this very subject, see:

And there is more of them in my new book.

Hesham, as you are doing a book about french aircraft, have you some informations about the vg-32?

 

[hesham]

There is an excellent YouTube video on this very subject, see:

And there is more of them in my new book.

Hesham, as you are doing a book about french aircraft, have you some informations about the vg-32?

OK Chercheuravions,

you can send to me a PM.