Antonov An-225 News and discussion thread

I don't have much hope on the 2nd unfinished airframe tho. Antonov apparently try to crowdfund the completion of the 2nd prototype. A move which may not bode very well. Considering that even China with mature aircraft industries and actual money to spare don't seem to be all that interested.

The same thing happen in Indonesia as son of our late minister of resarch and technology created a aircraft design startup and also tried to crowdfund his aircraft design, the "Regio R-80". It's been like 2-3 years already but no sign of the aircraft leaving conceptual or preliminary stage, and no sign of reports or statement from them regarding the already collected funds.
 
I know some people have suggested that there's enough of the plane left to try to rebuild it. I wonder if a better use for it would be to rebuild the hangar around it and preserve it as-is as a memorial... and then build *new* AN 225's. As a memorial it would have a long life as a reminder and a rallying cry; as a rebuilt aircraft, I would be forever worried about when a spar would crack.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDlvvw7Bw-A


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlKuMRe1EBo
 
haavarla said:
First of all, Antonov need to rebuild it self.
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Pretty much all of Ukraine will need rebuilding. Rebuilding Antonov will be difficult and expensive... but it could be vital for the country to recover economically. With Russia out of the world aviation market, there might be a chance for a rebuilt Antonov to pick up some market share. Building new AN 225s could be a PR victory for Antonov and for Ukraine, something to rally around.
 
Orionblamblam said:
haavarla said:
First of all, Antonov need to rebuild it self.
Click to expand...
Pretty much all of Ukraine will need rebuilding. Rebuilding Antonov will be difficult and expensive... but it could be vital for the country to recover economically. With Russia out of the world aviation market, there might be a chance for a rebuilt Antonov to pick up some market share. Building new AN 225s could be a PR victory for Antonov and for Ukraine, something to rally around.
Click to expand...
Oh cmn, we all may be sentimental here, but there was no such thing as Antonov on the world plane market even before 2022. It barely existed on the international market even before 2014, and afterward, it just completely broke down. Like literally no one who even tried to order something from Antonov managed to get it built - poor Peru, i see ya.

Any new An-225 for Ukraine, either before or after - may as well call for the construction of a Starfleet. It wasn't possible before 2014, it wasn't possible after 2014, it won't be possible after 2022.
United States may produce planes of this size and complexity. EU can. Maybe Russia (no one can tell for sure after 02.22 yet).
 
Ainen said:
Orionblamblam said:
haavarla said:
First of all, Antonov need to rebuild it self.
Click to expand...
Pretty much all of Ukraine will need rebuilding. Rebuilding Antonov will be difficult and expensive... but it could be vital for the country to recover economically. With Russia out of the world aviation market, there might be a chance for a rebuilt Antonov to pick up some market share. Building new AN 225s could be a PR victory for Antonov and for Ukraine, something to rally around.
Click to expand...
Oh cmn, we all may be sentimental here, but there was no such thing as Antonov on the world plane market even before 2022. It barely existed on the international market even before 2014, and afterward, it just completely broke down. Like literally no one who even tried to order something from Antonov managed to get it built - poor Peru, i see ya.

Any new An-225 for Ukraine, either before or after - may as well call for the construction of a Starfleet. It wasn't possible before 2014, it wasn't possible after 2014, it won't be possible after 2022.
United States may produce planes of this size and complexity. EU can. Maybe Russia (no one can tell for sure after 02.22 yet).
Click to expand...

This realistic answer is (alas) spot on, and should remind us that pre 2022 war Ukraine was no bed of roses: they had all kind of internal issues mostly unrelated to Russia. And the poor state of Antonov was case in point.
If often frustrated me, so much aerospace potential there (Zenit and An-124, for frack sake), yet next to nothing happened, not even before 2014.
 
Ainen said:
Oh cmn, we all may be sentimental here, but there was no such thing as Antonov on the world plane market even before 2022. It barely existed on the international market even before 2014, and afterward, it just completely broke down.
Click to expand...

Archibald said:
This realistic answer is (alas) spot on, and should remind us that pre 2022 war Ukraine was no bed of roses: they had all kind of internal issues mostly unrelated to Russia. And the poor state of Antonov was case in point.
If often frustrated me, so much aerospace potential there (Zenit and An-124, for frack sake), yet next to nothing happened, not even before 2014.
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While none of that is wrong, this war *could* provide an opportunity for a real reset in Ukraine. Germany and Japan got trashed, then got rebuilt, with less corruption and greater potential. It *could* happen again. I'm not optimistic that it *will,* just that it *could.*
 
I am not convinced about the level of damage shown to the An-225. The owners of the aircraft posted on another site that they are aware of the images but would need to do an actual inspection. The posted images have not been confirmed by them.
 
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There has to be a start for everything and frankly the Ukraine HAS to reboot now. Being a vassal state to Russia is unacceptable. Moving on and rebuilding is ALL they have and that (NOT easy for me to say this) means being part of a larger group of nations like the eu. It will cost a very big number to put right and while this is the right time to rebuild properly including Antonev and the governing system it will undoubtedly hurt in the short to medium term both militarily and industrially. New build 225's could both help rebuild and be a basis for national pride and effort to move forward. Worth a lot of money in those roles alone.
 
This is an An-225 topic discussion (and this isn’t a political discussion forum) so best we contributors don’t drift into wider political discussions.

In that context I think it is important to remember that the conflict is very much still ongoing (indeed scope for it to further escalate) and it’s far too early for the likes of us to be getting into details of Ukrainian rebuilding and possible impact on aviation related matters.

Plus, while I’m very much an aviation buff and a fan of the An-225 and would like to see one in the air again, the reality is that Ukraine has been devastated and will have an uncountable large number of justifiably far higher priorities than that when they do get to start rebuilding. It would be obscene and indefensible for them to in any way prioritise such an undertaking as building an An-225 in almost any conceivable timescale and we should not allow or own enthusiasms to blind us or warp our vision in this regard.
 
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kaiserd said:
It would be obscene and indefensible for them to in any way prioritise such an undertaking as building an An-225 in almost any conceivable timescale and we should not allow or own enthusiasms to blind us or warp our vision in this regard.
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Do not underestimate the value of a symbol to rally around. I don't know that a cargo airplane is the best symbol... but it's far from the worst.

The Apollo missions, the Sedan crater, cures for diseases, the elimination of slavery, the conquest of the air, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State Building. These are the sort of things that people can look at and say some variation of "this is what Men/free men/our people can do," feel a swell of pride, puff out their chests, and get *back* *to* *work.* Inspiration is almost as good as the profit motive, and far better than intimidation, as a way to get people to do difficult but necessary things. What will inspire the Ukrainians? That's up to them. Perhaps an unquenchable hatred for Russia will help them rebuild. But a cargo plane would be better. Hatred could lead to trouble down the road. A fleet of cargo aircraft would be productive.
 
Orionblamblam said:
kaiserd said:
It would be obscene and indefensible for them to in any way prioritise such an undertaking as building an An-225 in almost any conceivable timescale and we should not allow or own enthusiasms to blind us or warp our vision in this regard.
Click to expand...

Do not underestimate the value of a symbol to rally around. I don't know that a cargo airplane is the best symbol... but it's far from the worst.

The Apollo missions, the Sedan crater, cures for diseases, the elimination of slavery, the conquest of the air, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State Building. These are the sort of things that people can look at and say some variation of "this is what Men/free men/our people can do," feel a swell of pride, puff out their chests, and get *back* *to* *work.* Inspiration is almost as good as the profit motive, and far better than intimidation, as a way to get people to do difficult but necessary things. What will inspire the Ukrainians? That's up to them. Perhaps an unquenchable hatred for Russia will help them rebuild. But a cargo plane would be better. Hatred could lead to trouble down the road. A fleet of cargo aircraft would be productive.
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NASA is looking at replacing their Super Guppy. Just sayin'.....

Mark
 
Mark Nankivil said:
NASA is looking at replacing their Super Guppy. Just sayin'.....
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Are they? Do they actually fly it enough to justify a permanent replacement or would it make more sense to just charter a Beluga when needed?
 
TomS said:
Do they actually fly it enough to justify a permanent replacement or would it make more sense to just charter a Beluga when needed
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And just for comparison:

An-225 Payload: 250,000 kg
An-124 Payload: 120,000 jg
Beluga XL Payload: 50,000 kg
Super Guppy Playoad: 24,000 kg
 
archipeppe said:
TomS said:
Do they actually fly it enough to justify a permanent replacement or would it make more sense to just charter a Beluga when needed
Click to expand...

And just for comparison:

An-225 Payload: 250,000 kg
An-124 Payload: 120,000 jg
Beluga XL Payload: 50,000 kg
Super Guppy Playoad: 24,000 kg
Click to expand...

I don't think weight is likely to be the main issue for NASA. The payloads they need to move tend to be oversized but light.
 
Foo Fighter said:
There has to be a start for everything and frankly the Ukraine HAS to reboot now. Being a vassal state to Russia is unacceptable. Moving on and rebuilding is ALL they have and that (NOT easy for me to say this) means being part of a larger group of nations like the eu. It will cost a very big number to put right and while this is the right time to rebuild properly including Antonev and the governing system it will undoubtedly hurt in the short to medium term both militarily and industrially. New build 225's could both help rebuild and be a basis for national pride and effort to move forward. Worth a lot of money in those roles alone.
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I don't even know how to explain with all those "new 225".

Ukraine could.not.build.225.on.it's.own.
And war won't help. Ukrainian airspace was an integral part of the larger Soviet airspace industry. But, unlike the more or less self-sufficient Russian part(which was simply larger), the Ukrainian part was but a weird assemblage of unconnected parts of production chains, not forming any single picture. And, on top of that, Ukraine never had neither money nor orders to do anything with it even before 2014.
After 2014 Russian supplies were cut up, and many remaining old specialists left(to Russia, China, or the West). it was essentially a death sentense - while Ukraine in principle can buy western components, they aren't just prohibitively expensive for that in the end is a poor country - they don't really fit. Down to the very basic industrial standards(voltages, acceptance standards, testing procedures, size of every single standard bolt and screw...). The same old story as the b-29 -> tu-4 process.
Once again, Russia could integrate western and its own stuff - for the simple reason that there was money, there were orders, there was will, there were specialists. And it was the integration of useful western parts, not assembling a "puzzle".
After 2014 Ukraine indeed managed to get a single "westernized" an-132 out of the assembly hall - and now it is gone, too.

Just for analogy - cut out the state of Washington from any US and Western supplies, and then ask Boeing to build a Lockheed C-5 for pride purposes.
With per capita economy of El Salvador.
All that during an ongoing war with Canada, which just happened to occupy large (and hugely industrially important) parts of the country.
As compensation - they can maybe get some Russian supplies, and not really the best ones.
 
At the end of WW2 a certain european nation took the remnants of a factory, told a serving officer in the army to employ Germans and build cars. There was practically no money and no demand. Can you tel us what happened to the factory, car and demand? Same situation and will, same problem and the same solution.

VAG are now a massive european and world wide organisation with a turnover that exceeds a lot of nations out there. We can all roll over and die right now, or we can do what we most of us do, what we have to do to survive. The Ukrainian people have demonstrated what they can achieve and with the right support they can build new 225's or whatever heavy lift and other aircraft they choose to. NOT saying it will be a piece of cake but that small and functional 'people's car' went on to number over twenty million units. How many cars has the factory organised by one person to employ citizens in a war torn nation with nothing going for it produced and how much is the group worth now?

I KNOW they can make something of a go at it given the right support and frankly they got bugger all after the fall of the USSR.
 
Foo Fighter said:
At the end of WW2 a certain european nation took the remnants of a factory, told a serving officer in the army to employ Germans and build cars. There was practically no money and no demand. Can you tel us what happened to the factory, car and demand? Same situation and will, same problem and the same solution.

VAG are now a massive european and world wide organisation with a turnover that exceeds a lot of nations out there. We can all roll over and die right now, or we can do what we most of us do, what we have to do to survive. The Ukrainian people have demonstrated what they can achieve and with the right support they can build new 225's or whatever heavy lift and other aircraft they choose to. NOT saying it will be a piece of cake but that small and functional 'people's car' went on to number over twenty million units. How many cars has the factory organised by one person to employ citizens in a war torn nation with nothing going for it produced and how much is the group worth now?

I KNOW they can make something of a go at it given the right support and frankly they got bugger all after the fall of the USSR.
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Antonov, Lockheed Martin, and GE/P&W. With financial support from the US they could do it. Would probably still be cheaper than a clean sheet. (Especially if Boeing is doing it.)
 
Foo Fighter said:
VAG are now a massive european and world wide organisation with a turnover that exceeds a lot of nations out there. We can all roll over and die right now, or we can do what we most of us do, what we have to do to survive. The Ukrainian people have demonstrated what they can achieve and with the right support they can build new 225's or whatever heavy lift and other aircraft they choose to. NOT saying it will be a piece of cake but that small and functional 'people's car' went on to number over twenty million units. How many cars has the factory organised by one person to employ citizens in a war torn nation with nothing going for it produced and how much is the group worth now?
Click to expand...

This is a bit different though. There was plenty of demand for VW's products. The existence of the An-124 was a result of the Soviet army saying "we need an aircraft that can transport 2 MBTs, and we don't care what it costs". So Antonov cranked out 50 or so, with the USSR footing the bill.

Let's take a comparable aircraft from a commercial company: the Airbus A380. This went ahead because there were enough orders (several hundred) that Airbus could reasonably expect to make a profit. If the production run had been limited to 50 ex, no airline would have made it past the sticker shock.
 
There was initially zero, the demand came much later. The first vehicles were used by occupying forces. Fast forward to the sixties and yes there is demand but not when the relaunch occurred.
 
TomS said:
Mark Nankivil said:
NASA is looking at replacing their Super Guppy. Just sayin'.....
Click to expand...

Are they? Do they actually fly it enough to justify a permanent replacement or would it make more sense to just charter a Beluga when needed?
Click to expand...
Looking at buyng a new build Beluga. The Supoer Guppy is becoming far harder to maintain and would bet spares are getting scarce.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 
Reminds me of the The Flight of the Phoenix (the 1965 original - haven't seen the 2004 remake yet).
 
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A truly magnificent, awesome aircraft - I remember some time in the last millenium watching it take off at a Farnborough airshow from next to the airstrip and experiencing the turbulence from its wingtip vortices for what seemed like a minute or so as a localized whirlwind.
 
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helmutkohl said:
think its salveageable?
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Salvangeable enough to be a museum piece, sure. But there are far too many bullet/shrapnel holes in that composite structure to make me comfortable ever trying to stuff it into the air again. I doubt there are too many components that *don't* have bullet holes.
 
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From the video you posted from day 1 of the assault:
1.jpg
The car can be geolocated driving along Avtodorozhnia St.
1a.jpg
And stopping at this checkpoint:
2.jpg
See where they are located down here?
3a.jpg

Look at the smoke in the background...where is it coming from?
4a.jpg

That's the An-225 hangar. Already burning as soon as the russians took it.
 

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