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Aircraft of the GDR

toura

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Hi all
Interresting your photos of the veb 152 and others...
German aeronautical engineers stationed in Soviet Union in Savelovo
near Moscow worked on the "ef 150""
after working on this plane, they worked on the project 15-2, a passenger
jet plane.
They continued their work after returning in East Germany
The Chief engineer was Brunolf Baade previously headed a developement
division at Junkers in Dessau
The first 35 minute test flight took place on December 4 1958
The second flight March 4 1959 ended with the crash of the plane.....
Bye
 

Maveric

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Hi all,

a pic from OKB Samoljot 150.
The second is a Iljuschin Il.28 as testbed for the Pirna 014 powerplant. This was used in the V.4 prototyp.
 

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funkychinaman

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Air and Space magazine did a cover story on the Flugzeug 152V-1 and the DDR aerospace industry a couple of years back.
 

borovik

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"152" V-1 (1954 OKB-1) Fig. 1)
The basis for it has created previously/Initial form bomber "150"
Modifications: 2) the initial form of EF-150
3) RB-2 (1948 OKB-1)
sources:"Aircraft of World"#1/95
"Bastion' Vol.2 S.Ganin,A.Karpenko, V.Kolnogorov
 

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boxkite

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Jemiba

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As we are talking about aircraftprojects of the former GDR, we shouldn't
forget those, for which the DOWA 81 is a good example : Really top secret,
powered by two motorbike engines, basically a ultra-light, but able to carry
5 persons ! The designations came from its designer, Gerhard WAgner
and the year 1981, when he intended to escape from the GDR with his
wife and his 3 children in this aircraft.
(from FliegerRevue extra N°16)
 

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borovik

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boxkite said:
Anyone who is interested in details of these designs should visit

http://www.flugzeug-lorenz.de/index.php?id=45

The books (especially Kennzeichen Junkers and Der Passagier-Jet "152") are stuffed with pictures of excellent quality and a huge amount of information (see PDF previews, e. g. http://www.flugzeug-lorenz.de/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF-Junkersbuch/Junkers_232-235.pdf). Highly recommended!
Vielen Dank, Thomas. Sehr interessant.
A few pictures on the site Marek Rys :
http://www.airart3d.ovh.org/html/gallery.htm
 

boxkite

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Jemiba said:
As we are talking about aircraftprojects of the former GDR, we shouldn't
forget those, for which the DOWA 81 is a good example : Really top secret,
powered by two motorbike engines, basically a ultra-light, but able to carry
5 persons ! The designations came from its designer, Gerhard WAgner
and the year 1981, when he intended to escape from the GDR with his
wife and his 3 children in this aircraft.
(from FliegerRevue extra N°16)
And here are pictures of the built, but never flown aircraft:

http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/collections/transport/aeronautics/propeller-planes/after-1945/dowa-81/

http://airventure.de/dmpics/dmus_DOWA81.jpg
 

boxkite

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A few pictures on the site Marek Rys :
http://www.airart3d.ovh.org/html/gallery.htm
Nice addition :) . Thanks for the link, borovik.
 

Retrofit

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Jemiba said:
As we are talking about aircraftprojects of the former GDR, we shouldn't
forget those, for which the DOWA 81 is a good example : Really top secret,
powered by two motorbike engines, basically a ultra-light, but able to carry
5 persons ! The designations came from its designer, Gerhard WAgner
and the year 1981, when he intended to escape from the GDR with his
wife and his 3 children in this aircraft.
(from FliegerRevue extra N°16)
This pathetic aircraft is now preserved and presented at the Deutsche Museum, Munich.
 

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Orionblamblam

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Jemiba said:
when he intended to escape from the GDR with his
wife and his 3 children in this aircraft.
I guess I'm going to have to revise my opinion that socialism does not bring out the best in people. Why, in this case it brought out the innovator in a man in order for him to get the hell away from it....
 

Jemiba

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"..it brought out the innovator in a man .."

AFAIK, it was said, that he was an aviation engineer, but that not
necessarily mean, that he was allowed to work in that field ... ;)
 

Jemiba

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Another "GSP" (GDR Secret Project), although there aren't enough
for another issue by Tony Buttler, I think. ;)
This time, the constructor wasn't experienced in the field of aviation,
and the only "manufacturers drawing" was made, when the aircraft and
its designer were already "secured" by the MfS (ministry for security):
By the MfS itself !
 

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fightingirish

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For our non German Readers:
"Kopie BStU" mean "Copy BStU".
The BStU (Bundesbeauftragte für die Unterlagen des Staatssicherheitsdienstes der ehemaligen Deutschen Demokratischen Republik / better: Bundesbeauftragte für Stasi-Unterlagen - Office of the Federal Commissioner Preserving the Records of the Ministry for State Security of the GDR), commonly known as the Gauck office or Birthler office after the first and second lead commissioners respectively, preserves and protects the archives of the former Stasi, the secret police and intelligence organization of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Orionblamblam

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Jemiba said:
This time, the constructor wasn't experienced in the field of aviation,
and the only "manufacturers drawing" was made...
Nice and bland. I like it. When the plane's job is simply to fly a few people a few miles, and only do it once, bland is *great.* You don't need to be futzing around with interesting new aerodynamics when you've got exactly one flight to get it right... and your wife and kids are in the plane with you.
 

Hood

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Are there any stats on the Flugzeug 153A and 154A?
I'm assuming the engines are Soviet types and that both are 1960s designs. I'm I right?

I must say these were completely new to me as most sources end with the Baade and say the government closed-down the aero industry. I always felt sure the USSR closed the GDR's amibitons through Comecon (just like the Bulgarian Yak-18 production line), the 153A and 154A would directly compete with Soviet airliner products.
 

boxkite

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Hood said:
Are there any stats on the Flugzeug 153A and 154A?
I'm assuming the engines are Soviet types and that both are 1960s designs. I'm I right?
Turboprop aircraft:
'153' and '153A' -> 2 x Pirna 018 turboprops (2 x 5,000 hp / two of the engines were built for tests, but one of them destroyed the test bench in February 1959)

'154' (first use of this designation) -> 4 x Pirna 018

'155' -> 2 x Soviet turboprops of unknown type (2 x 6,250 hp)

Jet aircraft:
'154' (second use of this designation) -> 4 x Pirna 014 jet engines (4 x 3,150 kp), later 4 x Pirna 020 by-pass jet engines (4 x 3,700 kp)

'155A-1' -> 2 x Pirna 014
 

toura

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Dear Maveric and Boxkite.
I have a problem !
If look the three views drawing Maveric give us on the site and,
if I look after the ones of Boxkite on
"flugzeug-lorents..."
the cockpits forms are not identical !
this for ef 152 153 154
Two versions ? Please tell me.
Thanks
 

Maveric

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You´re right toura,

Flugzeug 153/I from 1955 and Flugzeug 153A from 1956
Flugzeug 154/I from 1955 and Flugzeug 154A from 1959
Flugzeug 155/I from 1955 and Flugzeug 155A from 1960
 

toura

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dear Maveric
I'm sorry, I don't read very well Boxkite answer !!
Thank you.
 

boxkite

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Maveric said:
...a Mock-up for the SP.043 "Flora".
Maveric, that's not a mock-up. It's a wind tunnel model with working propellers, tested at the Aerodynamische Laboratorien der FWD (i. e. Aerodynamical Laboratories of the Flugzeugwerke Dresden) in 1960.
 

hesham

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A little different in its drawing for Baade 152;
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%201701.html
 

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hesham

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Hi,

here is the Type-160,but sorry I have no more info.
 

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Caravellarella

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Thanks Hesham, the Type 160 looks like the jet engines are under the cabin floor; imagine internal the noise and difficulty of integrating engines into a pressurised fuselage. Imagine too the slaughter in the cabin from an uncontained engine failure......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

JohnR

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Aerodynamically the Type 160 resembles a Victor Bomber?
 

T-50

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Hello guys i was guessing if there were projects of fighters in the German democratic republic,I know in Poland they had a project that looked like a MIG-23
I hope someone known something about such projects
best regards T-50
 

boxkite

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More detailed book on the Baade 152 is published now, see here http://www.flugzeug-lorenz.de/index.php?id=123 .
 

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redstar72

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The "152" airliner is often considered to be only a modification of Soviet-built Alexeyev/Baade "150" bomber prototype.
But is it true?
Here are some comparison pictures I made...
 

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foiling

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Thanks for these comparisons, very nice Redstar72.
 

thebig C

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Great thread. I think there was an article on the Baade B-152 in "Airliner World" last year. I have some old copies, I will see if I can dig it out:)

C
 
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