I don't think Group Mike actually designed any ships. SCFRS was just a fleet architecture study, and SOCS was a laundry list of future design practices they wanted.

I think they did some conceptual sketches. There are too many very similar sketches for them all to come from nothing.

That second image I attached comes from an Armed Forces Journal article but I think was originally in Proceedings somewhere.

Edit: There's a painting of the design in the PDF version of this article:

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1988/january/revolution-sea
 
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I don't think this has been posted on the forum before, a 1997 Lessons Learned Paper authored by then Captain Charles S. Hamilton who was the Arsenal Ship Programme Manager. His career, including later roles, is described at this link.

The Arsenal Ship appears to have been predicated on changing the way that fire-support was provided to land forces (Marine and Army) ashore (hence "Maritime Fire Support Demonstrator"). There was a deep strike role but general fire support appears to have been the part of the CONOPs that drove the C4 systems requirement, and provided the justification for the considerable addition of VLS cells (512 per Arsenal Ship) to the fleet. This required deep integration with land forces and associated surveillance assets (e.g. direct targeting from JSTARS). However, this created a need to:
  1. Convince the Marines that a small amount of precision ordnance was more cost effective, and generally preferable, to a large amount of dumb ordnance for general and direct fire support
  2. Provide sufficiently low cost precision munitions to deliver #1
  3. Provide assured airspace deconfliction between the munitions being fired by the Arsenal Ship and other airborne assets in theatre
With regard to the number of VLS cells in the fleet, I have attached a footnote from a 1997 GAO report on the Navy Surface Combatant programme indicating that the Navy could not afford to fill the cells it had programmed. The objective for DD-21 was 256 cells per ship though I don't know how that relates to the attached statement.
 

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With regard to the number of VLS cells in the fleet, I have attached a footnote from a 1997 GAO report on the Navy Surface Combatant programme indicating that the Navy could not afford to fill the cells it had programmed. The objective for DD-21 was 256 cells per ship though I don't know how that relates to the attached statement.
I can easy see it being the type of idea of...

Ok in peace time we can not full everyone up due to cost.

But in wartime, between the losses cutting the count, the big o taps of money we can type of deal.

Basically we don't need 256 missiles in Peacetime, but we do in War. And we expect to get the money to buy them all then.

Kinda like how they Did the Carriers, the Ford can carry 100 planes, but only being sortie with 70 ish to save cost and due to being easier to stand up Squadrons then ships.


That or they planned as part of the old Rule of 3 to basically keep the missiles at sea deployed, while leaving the Refit ships with nothing and working up ships with a Token.
 
That or they planned as part of the old Rule of 3 to basically keep the missiles at sea deployed, while leaving the Refit ships with nothing and working up ships with a Token.
That may actually be standard Navy planning for skimmers.
 
I don't think this has been posted on the forum before, a 1997 Lessons Learned Paper authored by then Captain Charles S. Hamilton who was the Arsenal Ship Programme Manager. His career, including later roles, is described at this link.

The Arsenal Ship appears to have been predicated on changing the way that fire-support was provided to land forces (Marine and Army) ashore (hence "Maritime Fire Support Demonstrator"). There was a deep strike role but general fire support appears to have been the part of the CONOPs that drove the C4 systems requirement, and provided the justification for the considerable addition of VLS cells (512 per Arsenal Ship) to the fleet. This required deep integration with land forces and associated surveillance assets (e.g. direct targeting from JSTARS). However, this created a need to:
  1. Convince the Marines that a small amount of precision ordnance was more cost effective, and generally preferable, to a large amount of dumb ordnance for general and direct fire support
  2. Provide sufficiently low cost precision munitions to deliver #1
  3. Provide assured airspace deconfliction between the munitions being fired by the Arsenal Ship and other airborne assets in theatre
With regard to the number of VLS cells in the fleet, I have attached a footnote from a 1997 GAO report on the Navy Surface Combatant programme indicating that the Navy could not afford to fill the cells it had programmed. The objective for DD-21 was 256 cells per ship though I don't know how that relates to the attached statement.

Thanks for this. Admiral Hamilton was our sponsor when I worked for PEO (S). Obviously some of his experience with ArShip bled across into DD-21.
 
I can easy see it being the type of idea of...

Ok in peace time we can not full everyone up due to cost.

But in wartime, between the losses cutting the count, the big o taps of money we can type of deal.

Basically we don't need 256 missiles in Peacetime, but we do in War. And we expect to get the money to buy them all then.

Kinda like how they Did the Carriers, the Ford can carry 100 planes, but only being sortie with 70 ish to save cost and due to being easier to stand up Squadrons then ships.


That or they planned as part of the old Rule of 3 to basically keep the missiles at sea deployed, while leaving the Refit ships with nothing and working up ships with a Token.
Problem, as we're seeing, is spinning up production isn't like it was in WW2.
 
With regard to the number of VLS cells in the fleet, I have attached a footnote from a 1997 GAO report on the Navy Surface Combatant programme indicating that the Navy could not afford to fill the cells it had programmed. The objective for DD-21 was 256 cells per ship though I don't know how that relates to the attached statement.

Wandering in to a subject that I know little about... I vaguely remember that part of the AS argument hinged upon equipping it with a bunch of "cheaper" weapons. So they would not fill all the cells with Tomahawks, but with shorter range weapons like HIMARS.
 
Reading through the 1997-1998 Edition the Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapon Systems and the below image of a United Defence VLS concept was in the addendum. Given we know that from both the RAND and DARPA reports that none of the participants in Phase II of the Arsenal competition used Lockheed Martin's Mk 41 VLS, either preferring to develop their own VLS, use Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren's Concentric Canister Launcher or use a VLS developed by United Defence, I wonder whether the system depicted in World Naval Weapon Systems is the United Defence VLS system investigated by the Arsenal Ship competitors.

1000017455.png

1000017454.png
 
As well as what would become the Tactical Tomahawk, which was originally conceived for the Arsenal Ship project as a low cost missile that could be procured in bulk. Work on it survived the shelving of the latter due to both being selected as a potential replacement for the cancelled TBIP (Tomahawk Baseline Improvement Program) as well as hopes within the USN and the Department of the Navy for the resurrection of the the Arsenal Ship program in the then near future. (The onset of the War on Terror in 2001 should have provided the perfect opportunity for such, but SecDef Rumsfeld and the Cult of Transformation had their own priorities needless to say.)
 
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Although most of not all of these images are available on this thread in higher resolution, this GAO Report reveals which companies were responsible for these three competing Arsenal Ship designs:
 

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Last year former forum member @that_person posted a number of images to the Shipbucket Discord, of a 1997 model of a Northrop Grumman Arsenal Ship design that was gifted to the Webb Institute in 2014. I'm uploading them here with his permission.
 

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900 rounds. That's a lot of eggs in one basket. How many years worth of Tomahawk production for each boat?
 
Last year former forum member @that_person posted a number of images to the Shipbucket Discord, of a 1997 model of a Northrop Grumman Arsenal Ship design that was gifted to the Webb Institute in 2014. I'm uploading them here with his permission.
Is the hatch in the bow enclose the VGAS barrel as in other models?
 
Here's a high-quality color scan I made of the "Battlecruiser 2000" poster from July 1988 issue of Popular Mechanics. The concept predates the Arsenal Ship but I'm sharing this anyway because this same image has been posted several times in this thread in a low-res and black-and-white format.
 

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900 rounds. That's a lot of eggs in one basket. How many years worth of Tomahawk production for each boat?
640 rounds. Those aren't Mk41s, from the illustration there are 15x40 cell (4 5x2 modules) and 2x20 cell vls modules. If they were Mk41s like I initially thought until I zoomed in closely it would have been 1024 cells.
 
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640 rounds. Those aren't Mk41s, from the illustration there are 15x40 cell (4 5x2 modules) and 2x20 cell vls modules. If the were Mk41s like I initially thought until I zoomed in closely it would have been 1024 cells.
Given the history of the design, that might possibly actually represent the pre-1982 design for the Mk-41.

EDIT: On the other hand, given the text, it might represent a then proposed or mooted future development of the MK41 VLS.
 
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Given the history of the design, that might possibly actually represent the pre-1982 design for the Mk-41.

EDIT: On the other hand, given the text, it might represent a then proposed or mooted future development of the MK41 VLS.
None of the late 1990s Arsenal Ship designs used the Mk 41 VLS (including those from Lockheed who actually owned the manufacturing rights to Mk 41) the companies either developed their own VLS, used NWC Dahlgren's Concentric Canister Launcher, or a VLS developed by United Defense.
 
Entry from Jane's Fighting Ships 1996-97 for the Arsenal Ship, depicting the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A design. For obvious reasons the ship was no longer included in the 1998-99 edition. The source for the scan is The Internet Archive.

I would really like a good quality color scan of this concept art, I know there exists a color version of it but there are only very low resolution versions of it available online. If anyone knows the actual book or magazine source do let me know!
 

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Entry from Jane's Fighting Ships 1996-97 for the Arsenal Ship, depicting the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A design. For obvious reasons the ship was no longer included in the 1998-99 edition. The source for the scan is The Internet Archive.

I would really like a good quality color scan of this concept art, I know there exists a color version of it but there are only very low resolution versions of it available online. If anyone knows the actual book or magazine source do let me know!
Thank you porkslow. sorry can't help on a better pic. Looks like a good conceptual background for a battleship.
 
Entry from Jane's Fighting Ships 1996-97 for the Arsenal Ship, depicting the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A design. For obvious reasons the ship was no longer included in the 1998-99 edition. The source for the scan is The Internet Archive.

I would really like a good quality color scan of this concept art, I know there exists a color version of it but there are only very low resolution versions of it available online. If anyone knows the actual book or magazine source do let me know!

There is a fairly good quality version in this very thread.

Post in thread 'USN Arsenal Ship Concepts' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/usn-arsenal-ship-concepts.689/post-141744
 
I'm doing some research on the Arsenal Ship project at the moment and I managed to track down a physical copy of the Lockheed Martin Arsenal Ship press / publicity photo, depicting the Baseline 2B design (or something close to it). This is a 300 DPI scan, lower quality and cropped versions of the same image exist earlier in the thread.
 

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There is a fairly good quality version in this very thread.

Post in thread 'USN Arsenal Ship Concepts' https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/usn-arsenal-ship-concepts.689/post-141744
It's certainly better than nothing but I would prefer a higher quality 300 DPI or 600 DPI scan. Another place where I found this image was the January 1996 issue of the Marine Corps Gazette. It's a larger image without a lot of cropping but it's a black-and-white magazine and probably really hard to find.

I'm thinking of just emailing LM press email and asking them directly :p Maybe some PR rep will be nice enough to dig through the achieves, you never know!
 

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I realy like the "bottle shaped" deck plan, so obviously influenced by the Iowa class battleships. Oddly enough, the AOE-type Sacramento class replenishment ships also had a hull form similar to the Iowas - and the first two units each had half the machinery from the cancelled USS Kentucky.

I do have to wonder if this sort of complex design would conform with modern shipbuilding practices? Is this an actual proposal? Of course, some of the details, such as the bridge design, do conform to later designs such as the current Lockheed LCS?

arsenal_72.jpg
Love this design, wise enough to give it CIWS guns.
 
No Anti-Submarine warfare suite?
An 860 foot long battleship, with no armor or torpedo blisters, No CIWS guns, you cant even manually walk the ships fore to aft deck.
No point defense.
Have the learned Nothing from Star Wars.

View attachment 822547
I suggest you look up the actual purpose why they planned the ship. The primary purpose was supposed to be shore bombardment and supporting ground troops.

It wasn’t supposed to carry any sensors or self-defense guns because it was intended to be a “floating magazine” with protection and target acquisition by AEGIS cruisers and destroyers.

With all-VLS design, you could put any kind of missile on in, in addition to TLAM, also SM or VL-ASROC. In the Popular Mechanics article covering this ship they even have drawings of all the different types of missiles it could carry.
 
Also, there were some severe practical problems with MLRS aboard ship. It's not the simple job it looks like it should be to drop an MLRS launcher onto a ship's deck. You need to stabilize the rather large launcher. You need to automate the reload process, and ideally speed it up. And automate the magazine, both for loading and for strike down for replenishment. You need to deal with the fairly nasty exhaust impinging directly on ship structure instead of the ground behind the launcher. Etc. and every trainable mount on the ship required extra maintenance, on a ship intended for extreme minimum manning.

In the end, POLAR and VL NTACMS would probably have been simpler, cheaper, and tactically superior solutions.
 
You need to automate the reload process
That's could be done relatively quickly, if you have deck space; the MLRS launcher is reloaded with rocket pod, and equipped to auto-reload itself. In field, it could grab a new pod from the ground or from the truck with loading frame, and put inside:

1788121792898.png

Basically on ship all you need is rail/conveyor to move the new container under the launcher frame.
 
That's could be done relatively quickly, if you have deck space; the MLRS launcher is reloaded with rocket pod, and equipped to auto-reload itself. In field, it could grab a new pod from the ground or from the truck with loading frame, and put inside:

View attachment 822558

Basically on ship all you need is rail/conveyor to move the new container under the launcher frame.
There are elevators forward and aft for each pair of box launchers so those might be used by the reloading equipment though for one launcher at a time
 

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