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Cruiser Baseline (CGBL)

Triton

Donald McKelvy
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According to the Global Security web site the US Navy studied a destroyer design given the cruiser mission:

By the 1980s, with the advent of the DDG-51 Arleigh Burke destroyers, the distinction between a cruiser and destroyer was blurred. According to the US Navy, a cruiser was focused on anti-air warfare [AAW], and was focused on providing air defense to an aircraft carrier. The destroyer was focused on anti-surface and anti-submarine duties, while also having a substantial anti-air capability.

From the very first studies, the DDG was given two contradictory roles: 1) to be a smaller force-number-builder and 2) fix things that were perceived to be wrong with the CG 47. Specifically, it was felt that a ship armed with Tomahawk, unlike a carrier escort, could fight while hurt. Even if the ship were slowed and had lost a combat system capability in one or more areas, if it could receive Tomahawk targeting data and launch, the self-guiding missile would be fully functional. Thus the DDG received a steel superstructure, increased blast overpressure resistance, more armor, a collective protection system and radar cross section reduction measures. Thus there is a historically anomalous situation of the destroyer being a more survivable ship than the cruiser.

A question that has continually come up is "what if a new cruiser, with weapons the same as the CG 47 class, were designed starting with the DDG and expanding into the cruiser mission?" In order to have a math model of such a ship for future technology studies, Navy Preliminary design created the Cruiser Baseline (CGBL). The study also included weapons systems modularity and increased service life reserves. The resulting ship had a waterline length of 600 feet, a beam of 69 feet, a displacement of about 13,500 tons plus a 30+ knot speed.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cruiser-cold-war.htm
 

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smurf

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Compare the RN 5000ton "cruiser-destroyer" of the 1950s (See Norman Friedman's Postwar Naval Revolution
or even Admiral Fisher's desire in 1910 or so to replace light cruisers with an 1800ton "super-Swift" based on the experimental 36knot flotilla leader HMS Swift.
The RN Tribal destroyers just before WWII had their origins in a version of this idea - that a ship the size of a large destroyer could take over some cruiser functions.
Nothing new under the sun?
 

Triton

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The CGBL--A Product Improved Version of the CG 52 by Paul Sims.

http://www.navalengineers.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/2008%20Proceedings%20Documents%20%28Papers%20and%20Presentations%29/ASNE%20Day%202008/paper21.pdf
 

MihoshiK

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Triton said:
The CGBL--A Product Improved Version of the CG 52 by Paul Sims.

http://www.navalengineers.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/2008%20Proceedings%20Documents%20%28Papers%20and%20Presentations%29/ASNE%20Day%202008/paper21.pdf
Damnit, the side view is completely fuxx0red. I wanted to use that for Shipbucket.

Still, an interesting article.
 

M. A. Rozon

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I would dearly love to see all of the drawings without any of the distortion. :'( Does anyone at all have them?

::)
 

Grey Havoc

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Unfortunately, Roughead appears to have forgotten this study when he forced through the Flight III Burke program (it's going so badly, they are now talking about going to a Flight IV design!).
 

TimothyC

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M. A. Rozon said:
I would dearly love to see all of the drawings without any of the distortion. :'( Does anyone at all have them?

::)
Link.

Scroll down to The CGBL section and Download the JAR file - It's a self extracting presentation executable. I've attached three of the slides bellow
 

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Grey Havoc

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Problem is, the bright sparks behind the current Flight III effort seem to have totally ignored the CGBL. :(
 

TimothyC

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It would also help if I had quoted the correct person.
 

JFC Fuller

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Grey Havoc said:
Problem is, the bright sparks behind the current Flight III effort seem to have totally ignored the CGBL. :(
What?
 

Grey Havoc

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sealordlawrence said:
Grey Havoc said:
Problem is, the bright sparks behind the current Flight III effort seem to have totally ignored the CGBL. :(
What?
They were claiming, for one thing, that they could deliver Flight III with 'minimum changes' to meet requirements. That proved to be optimistic, at best. They should have gone with a clean sheet design, or at the very least used the CGBL as a baseline. It's highly likely, IMO, that Congress is going to s**tcan the entire exercise within the next few months.
 

JFC Fuller

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Grey Havoc said:
They were claiming, for one thing, that they could deliver Flight III with 'minimum changes' to meet requirements. That proved to be optimistic, at best. They should have gone with a clean sheet design, or at the very least used the CGBL as a baseline. It's highly likely, IMO, that Congress is going to s**tcan the entire exercise within the next few months.
1) That is Rubbish

2) Not relevant to this thread
 

Grey Havoc

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In reverse order I was;

(a) Answering your question

and

(b) What makes you certain that Flight III will survive the next few months, if I might ask?
(If it makes you happier we can move this discussion to a new thread.)
 

JFC Fuller

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Grey Havoc said:
(b) What makes you certain that Flight III will survive the next few months, if I might ask?
(If it makes you happier we can move this discussion to a new thread.)
See 2.
 

Grey Havoc

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Triton said:
The CGBL--A Product Improved Version of the CG 52 by Paul Sims.

http://www.navalengineers.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/2008%20Proceedings%20Documents%20%28Papers%20and%20Presentations%29/ASNE%20Day%202008/paper21.pdf
Interesting how the author suggested using CGBL rather than the CG 52 as a comparison model to help explain to the taxpapers (and unstated, Congress) the seemingly excessive size of both the DDG 1000 destroyer and the CG(X) design back in 2008.
 

Grey Havoc

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There is currently an interesting effort over on Shipbucket to reconstruct what the CGBL would have looked like: http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1374
 

TimothyC

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Grey Havoc said:
There is currently an interesting effort over on Shipbucket to reconstruct what the CGBL would have looked like: http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1374
Yeah, it's going slow because I get easily distracted, and I'm busy with my current class load. My current goal is to work on it over the summer semester when I'm not so swamped with classwork. That will also give me a chance to contact some people to dig up some further resources.
 

TimothyC

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Just an update to the above, I've finally pushed this drawing off into Release Candidate territory, and it can still be found here.
 
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