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US future submarine concepts.

Charles Gray

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I've seen some rather impressive images of potential future US submarines including such designs as Renegade, Renegade 2 and Merrimack, evidently designed to make extensive use of UUV's and other advanced technology.
U nfortunately, I haven't been able to find much more than images of them. Can anyone help me find out more information about these concepts and how they fit into the US navy roadmap? Thanks.
 

fightingirish

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See the thread "NSSN Concepts?":
TomS said:
I'm fairly sure that's not actually a pre-NSSN concept, but rather a concept for the Advanced Sail, which may show up in later years production of the Virginia class.
For a survey of several other NSSN successor designs proposed back around 2002, see this PDF of an article from International Defense Review:
http://www.kentaurus.com/downloads/IDRSub.pdf
 

flateric

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I was trying hard to find an original Team 2020 report...so far I've found this;)
So IDR article is quite a treasure.

Chinese observers pay fairly close attention to American submarine-related research and development efforts. For example, websites on Chinese naval matters frequently report on the awarding of Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and Office of Naval Research (ONR) contracts. Chinese journals take advantage of these announcements and also scour the U.S. open press for sources that
can be exploited. For example, a rather lengthy article in the June 2002 issue of (Modern Ships) reprinted the “Submarine of the Future” briefing slides (complete with a logo in the upper left-hand corner of
each) generated by the DARPA-sponsored, Lockheed Martin–led industrial consortium “TEAM 2020.” These slides depict futuristic hull forms, sonar configurations, propulsors, weapons storage ideas,
interfaces for unmanned underwater vehicles, and other elements of advanced submarine designs and concepts. It seems that little, if any, publicly released information regarding U.S. submarine-related
research and development escapes the attention of Chinese analysts.

The government hereby submits its brief and the declaration
of FBI Special Agent James E. Gaylord in support of its motion to
detain defendants Chi Mak and Tai Mak (“defendants”).
Dated: November 18, 2005
[...] The residence of Chi Mak and Rebecca Chiu was searched on
October 28. Gaylord Dec. 7. Agents found hundreds of
documents pertaining to Navy research projects, including those
marked NOFORN and with other export control restrictions. Those
documents include Electro-Magnetic Launch System (“EMALS”) for
aircraft carriers, QED (Quiet Electric Drive), DDX (the next
generation destroyer for the Navy), Virginia-class submarine
weapons systems (e.g., a rotary electro-magnetic launcher for
torpedoes), Extended Range Guided Munitions (“ERG”), S9G (Nuclear
Submarine Reactor), “Team 2020 - Submarine of the Future,” High
Power Electro Magnetic (“EM”) guns, Submarine Mounted EM Gun
Hyper-Velocity Kinetic Energy Projectiles for Intercept of ICBM,
and Advanced Arresting Gear Engines (for carriers).
Notably, the documents found in the residence correspond to
the categories of technology found on PRC government “tasking
lists” that Chi Mak admitted receiving from his brother. Id.
Chi Mak told agents that he believed the tasking list came from
Mr. Pu. Id. at 3. Items on the tasking lists included
aircraft carrier electronic systems, EM gun intercept, artillery
and launch systems, water jet propulsion, power system
configuration, weapons standardization, submarine launch
technology, and the DDX program. A number of the documents had
the restriction stamps covered up. See Gaylord Dec., Ex.4, pp.
33, 35 and 37. Many of these programs were outside the scope of
Chi Mak’s employment with Power Paragon. Id. As restricted
documents that were not within the scope of Chi Mak’s employment,
he had no legitimate reason to have the documents in his
possession or “need to know.”
 

flateric

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nice NAVSEA/NUWC Manta test vehicle report - Manta was another concept from IDR article
http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/06/seca/pdf/Carreiro.SECA%20mtg%20final.pdf
 

JAZZ

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clear renditions of Forwardpass concepts
 

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JAZZ

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tango-Bravo-concepts
 

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flateric

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Avimimus

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I think they're from the pdf (unfortunately the UUV details are illegible at the *.pdf file's resolution)
 

flateric

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nope, they are not from IDR pdf, I'd say
JAZZ, thanks for posting
 

JAZZ

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A bit of a repeat - but for those who just like the submarine rendering
 

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flateric

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would it be unpolite to ask for original report?
 

fightingirish

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??? I think that all that scans or screenshots are from the IDRSub.pdf. I posted the link at post#2.
 

TomS

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The concepts marked as Tango-Bravo are not -- they were the other team from the late 1990s future concepts study. Tango Bravo is much more recent and is aimed at making smaller submarines than the 12,000 ton designs shown here.
 

JAZZ

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fightingirish said:
??? I think that all that scans or screenshots are from the IDRSub.pdf. I posted the link at post#2.


No they are not from the IDRsub.pdf, they are from a Journel article (the three later ones are PS to get ride of all the writing) if some one knows the date it was published, I could find it relatively quickly.
 

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Lampshade111 said:
Very interesting, thanks.

What are the high-energy laser and EM gun for?

Erhhh...punching holes in stuff and blowing them up, maybe... ::)

Seriously, I'm guessing "low-cost" (i.e. cheaper than cruise missiles) long-range land and anti-ship attack (EM gun) and anti-aircraft/-missile defence (laser).

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

Jemiba

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"long-range land and anti-ship attack (EM gun) and anti-aircraft/-missile defence (laser)."

Am I wrong, or would even an EM gun and and laser AAA be limited to be used at the surface ?
Are we observing a move "back to the roots" here ? Is this the reincarnation of the submersible
gunboat, as the Uboats during WWI and WWII were ? ???
 

Lauge

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Jemiba said:
"long-range land and anti-ship attack (EM gun) and anti-aircraft/-missile defence (laser)."

Am I wrong, or would even an EM gun and and laser AAA be limited to be used at the surface ?
Are we observing a move "back to the roots" here ? Is this the reincarnation of the submersible
gunboat, as the Uboats during WWI and WWII were ? ???

I agree: The EM (rail-) gun and laser would, as I see it, be surface options, or at best periscope depth (with only the muzzle/beam director poking above the surface). Firing either of those babies submerged would be spectacular, but I think you'd loose too much energy going through the water (haven't done the maths. though). So yeah, "submersible gunboat" sounds good B)

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark
 

Charles Gray

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Also, rather than long term gun support, a'la an invasion, these subs, especially with special forces embarked would be more likely to go for the "sudden attack and leave" mode. An EM gun, especially firing guided rounds might deliver 20-20 rounds far inland in a few minutes, guided by UAV's or ground forces-- by the time your thirty tanks/radar stations/command posts have exploded the sub is alrady under water and on it's way out.
 

flateric

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Enjoy







Буксируемый BUBL











Manta UUV


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6L1HdCeNdY
 

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http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2005/Navy/stamped/0603561N.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2013/Navy/stamped/0603561N_4_PB_2013.pdf
 

bobbymike

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Funny how life works I was literally just thinking this morning about, "Where are those stories I read about NSSN and other sub concepts" and BOOM here it is, love SP and its members!
 

malipa

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How about a submergerbale helicopter-carrier? That would give a great surprise attack .
 

eshelon

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Manta UUV on Sea Air Space Washington 2002
 

Grey Havoc

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COLEMAN RESEARCH CORP
5950 LAKEHURST DR
ORLANDO, FL 32819
Program Manager: JOEL GREENSTEIN
Contract #: N6601-91-C-7005
Tide: A TETHERED FLOATING FIBER OPTIC PERISCOPE FOR SUBMARINES
Topic #: N90-296 Office: NOSC ID #: 43241

A REMOTE PERISCOPE IS PROPOSED THAT CAN BE DEPLOYED FROM A SUBMARINE. THE DEVICE REPLICATES
THE FUNCTIONS OF A CONVENTIONAL PERISCOPE WHILE MAINTAINING ITS UNIQUE FEATURES.
PRELIMINARY REQUIREMENTS ON THE NEW DEVICE HAVE BEEN SET. THE DEVICE SHOULD RISE TO ABOUT
4 m ABOVE THE WATERLINE FOR VIEWING OVER WAVES. THE RANGE SHOULD BE GREATER THAN 10 km.
THE PERFORMANCE AT RANGE SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO DETECT AND RECOGNIZE SMALL OBJECTS. THE
PERISCOPE SHOULD HAVE A +60 TO -5 DEG FIELD OF REGARD IN ELEVATION AND 360 DEG IN AZIMUTH.
A MAXIMUM POSSIBLE FIELD-OF-VIEW (FOV) IS DESIRABLE. DIRECT OPTICS FOVs ARE OPTIMISTIC GOALS
FOR IMAGING DEVICES. THE OPTICAL ELEMENT DIAMETER, d, HAS DIRECT BEARING ON THE
PERFORMANCE. THE LARGER d, THE LARGER EFFECTIVE RANGE. HOWEVER, OBSERVABILITY, SIZE, AND
COST OF THE PACKAGE ALSO GROW WITHd. AFTER RELEASE FROM A STORAGE TRUNK, THE DEVICE
(PROPORTIONED LIKE A TORPEDO) SWIMS TO A REMOTE STATION JUST UNDER THE SURFACE, FAR FROM
THE SUBMARINE. HERE, THE AFT PORTION IS FLOODED, CAUSING A ROTATION TO VERTICAL. THE
FORWARD PART IS THEN RAISED IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO THAT OF A CONVENTIONAL PERISCOPE. TWO
STABILIZATION SYSTEMS WILL BE USED. THE FIRST (COARSE) SYSTEM WILL KEEP THE DEVICE VERTICAL
AND WILL HOLD STATION AGAINST SURFACE SURRENTS. THE FINE SYSTEM WILL STABILIZE THE
LINE-OF-SIGHT (LOS) TO A TARGET BY MOVING A MIRROR IN THE PERISCOPE HEAD. THE FINE SYSTEM
WILL MOVE THE MIRROR IN PITCH AND YAW. ROLL ABOUT THE LOS WILL BE STABILIZED
ELECTRONICALLY.


OSBORNE ASSOCIATES INC
756 LAKEFIELD RD - BLDG J
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, CA 91361
Program Manager: ANDREW BAZELEY
Contract #: N66001-91-C-7006
Title: A TEHTERED FLOATING FIBER OPTIC PERISCOPE FOR SUBMARINES
Topic #: N90-296 Office: NOSC ID #: 43247

THE PHASE I PROJECT WILL DEVELOP THE TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION FOR A FIBER OPTIC REMOTE
SURFACE SENSOR PLATFORM SYSTEM (FORSSEPS) THAT CAN BE DEPLOYED FROM A SUBMERGED
SUBMARINE AND WHICH CAN BE REMOTELY DIRECTED TO THE SURFACE OF THE OCEAN TO GATHER
VISUAL AND RF INFORMATION WHILE MINIMIZING RISK EXPOSURE IN A VARIETY OF TACTICAL AND
OPERATIONAL SITUATIONS. THE PREEMINENT DESIGN CRITERIA FOR THE FORSSEPS VEHICLE AND SENSOR
PLATFORM WILL BE THAT IT PROVIDE SUFFICIENT STABILITY THAT EFFECTIVE 360 DEGREE IMAGING CAN
BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH LOW RISK OF DETECTION. IN ADDITION, THE FORSSEPS VEHICLE MAY BE
EQUIPPED WITH VARIOUS RF AND OPTICAL APERTURE SENSORS, THEREBY ENABLING COMMUNICATIONS
LINKS WITH SATELLITES, ELINT, ETC. THROUGH USE OF A FIBER OPTIC LINK AND BY PROVIDING THE
VEHICLE WITH ON-BOARD PROPULSION, STANDOFF RANGES OF SEVERAL KILOMETERS CAN EASILY BE
ACHIEVED FROM THE PARENT SUBMARINE. ALTERNATELY, BE EQUIPPING THE FORSSEPS VEHICLE AS A
HYDRODYNAMIC LIFTING BODY THAT CAN BE TOWED TO THE SURFACE, SURVEILLANCE MISSIONS CAN
BE CONDUCTED WHILE THE PARENT SUBMARINE IS UNDERWAY. THE SPECIFICATION DEVELOPED WILL
ADDRESS THE PROPOSED FORSSEPS VEHICLE DESIGN, THE STABILIZED SENSOR PLATFORM, THE IMAGING
SYSTEM, THE FIBER OPTIC DATA LINK, NAVIGATION SENSORS, THE LAUNCH AND RECOVERY SYSTEM AND
THE OPERATORS CONTROL STATION.


7932 W 79TH ST
PLAYA DEL REY, CA 90293
Program Manager: HARRY NELSON
Contract #: N66001-91-C-7004
Title: A TETHERED FLOATING FIBER OPTIC PERISCOPE FOR SUBMARINES
Topic #: N90-296 Office: NOSC ID #: 43248

THE PURPOSE OF THIS PHASE I STUDY IS TO DETERMINE THE FEASIBILITY OF A REMOTE IMAGING AND
TRACKING PERISCOPE THAT CAN BE FREE FLOATING, BUT TETHERED TO A SUBMARINE. THE FLOATING
PERISCOPE CONTAINS A TWO- AXIS STABILIZED LINE OF SIGHT FOR VARIOUS IMAGING VISIBLE AND
INFRARED CAMERA SYSTEMS THAT PROVIDE VIDEO DATA VIA A FIBER-OPTIC DATA LINK TO A REMOTE
SUBMERGED SUBMARINE. THE PERISCOPE TO BE FEASIBLE AND ECONOMICAL USES VARIOUS DEVICES, I.E.,
IR AND VISIBLE CAMERAS, STABILIZATION SYSTEMS, AND TRACKERS, AND POWER SUPPLIED, THAT ARE
ALREADY IN THE DoD INVENTORY. COMBINING THESE EXISTING DEVICES AND ELECTRONICS ALONG WITH
AN EXISTING FIBER-OPTIC DATA LINK (ARMY FOG-M MISSILE) INTO A UNIQUE PERISCOPE SYSTEM AND
SPECIFYING THE SYSTEMS DESIGN REQUIREMENTS FORMS THE PHASE I REPORT.


SMALL BUSINESS INNOVATION RESEARCH PROGRAM - PHASE I
NAVY Solicitation 90.1
 

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TREADWELL CORP
85 OXFORD DR
MOONACHIE, NJ 07074
Program Manager: RICHARD J LAWRENCE
Contract #:
Title: FUELCELL PULSE POWER SOURCE FOR SUBMARINE ELECTROMAGNETIC LAUNCHERS
Topic #: N90-166 Office: NSSC ID #: 41159

ELECTROMAGNETIC LAUNCHERS ARE BEING DEVELOPED FOR SUCH APPLICATIONS AS LAUNCHING
TORPEDOES, REMOTELY PILOTED VEHICLES, AND HIGH VELOCITY PROJECTILES. THE MAIN DRIVER IS THE
REDUCTION OF THE NOISE GENERATED DURING THE PRESENT TORPEDO LAUNCH EVOLUTION. THE
TECHNOLOGY FOR ANY MOBILE APPLICATIONS AND SOME STATIONARY APPLICATIONS WILL REQUIRE A
HIGH ENERGY DENSITY POWER SOURCE. THE POWER SOURCE MUST PROVIDE THE ELECTRICAL POWER IN
CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE LAUNCHER TO REDUCE THE LOSSES ASSOCIATED WITH HIGH CURRENTS IN
ELECTRICAL CONDUCTORS AND THE EMI. PROTON EXCHANGE MEMBRANES (PEM) FUEL CELLS HAVE
DEMONSTRATED ON A SMALL SCALE THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE VERY HIGH PULSED ELECTRICAL ENERGY
IN SMALL LIGHT WEIGHT PACKAGES. THE TREADWELL CORPORATION HAS DEMONSTRATED SOME
INNOVATIVE CONCEPTS AND THE PULSE CAPABILITY OF THE FUEL CELL POWER SOURCE. TREADWELL HAS
DESIGNED AND IS PRESENTLY CONSTRUCTING A CLOSED LOOP 1kW FUEL CELL SYSTEM FOR AN
UNMANNED AUTONOMOUS UNDERWATER VEHICLE WHICH PRODUCES DIRECT CURRENT ELECTRICAL
POWER FROM THE CONTROLLED REACTION OF REDUCING AND OXIDIZING AGENTS. THIS APPLICATION
UTILIZES PRESSURIZED HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN AS THE REACTANTS TO MAXIMIZE ENERGY DENSITY.
TREADWELL HAS ALSO TESTED OUR INHOUSE LABORATORY FUEL CELL IN THE PULSED MODE. PRODUCING
200 MICROSCEOND, 450 AMPERE PULSES FOR UP TO 2 HOURS.


Ibid

TETRA CORP
4905 HAWKINS ST NE
ALBUQUERQUE, NM 87109
Program Manager: DR KENELL J TOURYAN
Contract #:
Tite: A FERROFLUID PUMP HOVERING SYSTEM FOR UNDERWATER DEVICES
Topic #: N90-157 Office: NSSC ID #: 41155

THE USE OF AN ELECTROMAGNETICALLY DRIVEN FLUID THAT CAN COUPLE ENERGY TO SEA WATER CAN
LEAD TO A QUIET AND RELIABLE MODE OF OPERATION FOR UNDERWATER DEVICES. THE WORK PROPOSED
WILL CONSIST OF A LABORATORY DEMONSTRATION OF A FERROFLUID PUMP HOVERING SYSTEM FOR
UNDERWATER DEVICES AND A CONCEPTUAL DESIGN OF A PROTOTYPE. THE ADVANTAGE OF THIS TYPE
OF PROPULSION IS THAT ALMOST NO MOVING PARTS ARE REQUIRED AND THEREFORE, THE POTENTIAL
EXISTS FOR A VERY QUIET MODE OF OPERATION. IT IS THE INTENT OF THIS PROPOSED PROGRAM TO
CONDUCT A PROOF-OF-CONCEPT EXPERIMENT FOLLOWED BY A THOROUGH ANALYSIS, LABORATORY
TESTS, DESIGN, FABRICATION, AND OPERATION OF A PROTOTYPE OF THE FERROFLUID PROPULSION
SYSTEM IN PHASE I AND II THE OBJECTIVES OF THE PHASE I STUDY ARE TWO-FOLD: 1) TO CONDUCT
LABORATORY SCALE EXPERIMENTS; AND 2) TO DEVELOP SIMPLIFIED THEORY AND DO SCALING ANALYSIS
FOR DESIGNING A PROTOTYPE UNIT. A SUCCESSFUL PROPULSION SYSTEM THAT HAS VERY LOW ACOUSTIC
SIGNATURE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT ADVANCED IN THE STATE-OF-THE-ART OF HOVERING SYSTEMS IN
AUTONOMOUS UNDERWATER VEHICLE.


Ibid
 

ouroboros

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That ferrofluid pump sounds freaky. The 2D equivalent would be like tank treads, so a 3D would be a cylinder with an inner open core and outer annulus, drawing seawater in and through the center. Caterpillar drive?!?


The remote periscopes seem to be two distinct classes though, a towable type that has hydrodynamic controls (lift?), and a self deploying but otherwise static cabled UUV. The fiber optic bit seems like a possible use case for Lasermotive's combined data/power fiber optic laser system.

The pulsed fuel cell for torpedo electromagnetic launch seemed odd. Is this for some sort of coil gun style setup, or more like an electric (solenoid?) linear actuator piston?
 

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DARPA has a new submarine drone carrier concept, the Hydra:
https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=71b2a7552623506341906c190f12f87f
https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=f528af06320aac71486e160e073c1c3c


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?229261-DARPA-s-Hydra-would-be-an-undersea-drone-carrier
 

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http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2014/03/13/pentagon-upward-falling-payloads/6371505/

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is stepping up its research on several programs, including doubling its planned spending on the Hydra program, an underwater "truck" that would carry unmanned submarines and aerial drones. The DARPA budget released last week shows planned spending for Hydra would rise from $14.9 million in the current fiscal year to $29.9 million next year.
Hydra, budget documents show, would be based in shallower coastal waters "to create a disruptive capability. ... The modular enclosures are deployed by various means, depending on the need for speed and stealth and remain deployed until awakened for deployment."
 

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http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a13962/to-hide-a-submarine-coat-it-in-tiny-bubbles/?mag=pop&click=yr
 

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I thought, that an "ultra-thin bubble wrap" (super-cavitation?) around a submarine would create noise, so in the end the submarine would be detectable. ??? :-\
 

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I think they mean a solid material with bubbles in it, not bubbles being emitted like the Prairie-Masker system. And P-M gets away with emitting noise because it makes ships not sound like ships, which goes a long way. Odd article, though, very thin and it references Radar instead of Sonar.
 

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The link to Yahoo News is much better. They are talking about a thin film of material with carefully engineered cavities to absorb sound waves.

http://news.yahoo.com/thin-bubble-coatings-could-hide-submarines-sonar-135750085.html

The work has been done in France and Canada, so this probably doesn't belong in a thread about US submarine design.
 

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http://www.wired.com/2015/08/boeings-new-autonomous-sub-can-dive-20000-feet-deep/
 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL29ogaVNUs&feature=player_embedded
http://www.wired.com/2015/08/boeings-new-autonomous-sub-can-dive-20000-feet-deep/​

Also:
bobbymike said:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/boeing-patent-for-flying-drone-that-can.html

EDIT: A little more detail on the latter: http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-uav-submarine/38976/
 

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On a side note: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-navys-most-vital-and-secretive-submarine-base-is-in-1590794426
 

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Grey Havoc said:
https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/03/19/1917214/stealthy-drone-can-hide-underwater-for-months-then-float-to-surface-to-take-off
 

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http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20150014581
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160405-the-space-submarine-hunting-the-solar-system-for-aliens
 

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