Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter - News only

Again both of you fail to provide a source to where those screenshots of simulators come from. While on the other hand, there are picture of the cockpits of operational L-15s.

I want to see something more concrete rather than some one else's interpretation of a still image where no original source is provided. If you know where the video came from, then feel free to post.
 
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helmutkohl said:
Again both of you fail to provide a source to where those screenshots of simulators come from. While on the other hand, there are picture of the cockpits of operational L-15s.
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You realize how rare it is to catch a glimpse of the dashboard of an in-service Chinese jet? The best we have are a few screenshots of simulators or blurry views into the cockpits of demo aircraft from afar (and we don't even have those for more advanced aircraft)...

You keep saying we fail to provide a source besides simulators, yet your only source for a newly built jet having the old 3-piece MFD is the Emirati L-15s, which could have a different configuration than JL-10s built around the same time for all we know.

What we do know is that the Uzbek pilot is evidently flying a JL-10, which incidentally has the exact same dashboard configuration and equipment as those seen on the simulators. Those simulators you keep dismissing are actually operated by the PLAAF to train cadets on the real aircraft, by the way...

Oh, and you're also reading too much into that simulator MFD showcased and marketed at a fair and showing the outline of a J-35 on the screen -- these are merely displays for goodness' sake...
 
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snne said:
You realize how rare it is to catch a glimpse of the dashboard of an in-service Chinese jet? The best we have are a few screenshots of simulators or blurry views into the cockpits of demo aircraft from afar (and we don't even have those for more advanced aircraft)...

You keep saying we fail to provide a source besides simulators, yet your only source for a newly built jet having the old 3-piece MFD is the Emirati L-15s, which could have a different configuration than JL-10s built around the same time for all we know.

What we do know is that the Uzbek pilot is evidently flying a JL-10, which incidentally has the exact same dashboard configuration and equipment as those seen on the simulators. Those simulators you keep dismissing are actually operated by the PLAAF to train cadets on the real aircraft, by the way...

Oh, and you're also reading too much into that simulator MFD showcased and marketed at a fair and showing the outline of a J-35 on the screen -- these are merely displays for goodness' sake...
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Yes, it can be difficult to find however if you use Jetphotos and do a search, you can find some airshow pictures where you can get partial pictures of the cockpit, the HUD and part of the MFDs.
I'm not dismissing that they are or are not JL-10s, but that you using an unverified screenshot of a simulator, isn't really convincing.
Since you also can't provide where you found the original source is from either, we will have to end it here and return to the J-10.
 
helmutkohl said:
Yes, it can be difficult to find however if you use Jetphotos and do a search, you can find some airshow pictures where you can get partial pictures of the cockpit, the HUD and part of the MFDs.
I'm not dismissing that they are or are not JL-10s, but that you using an unverified screenshot of a simulator, isn't really convincing.
Since you also can't provide where you found the original source is from either, we will have to end it here and return to the J-10.
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Again, you are also obliged to provide proof of newly built jets still featuring the old three-piece MFD configuration, instead of just asserting the same old ~2022 model Emirati L-15 case.

Let's be logical. The J-10C no longer receives any major hardware updates and still features a three-piece MFD configuration; there's no reason on Earth for an Uzbek pilot to be flying anything other than either the J-10C or the JL-10. Incidentally, JL-10 simulators feature the exact same configuration and equipment seen in your video...

No disrespect, but you're really being unreasonable by dragging this discussion out and doing your own argument a disservice by repeatedly and lazily falling back on the same old "herez my exported L-15 cockpit, prove me wrong" argument...
 
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snne said:
Again, you are also obliged to provide proof of newly built jets still featuring the old three-piece MFD configuration, instead of just asserting the same old ~2022 model Emirati L-15 case.

Let's be logical. The J-10C no longer receives any major hardware updates and still features a three-piece MFD configuration; there's no reason on Earth for an Uzbek pilot to be flying anything other than either the J-10C or the JL-10. Incidentally, JL-10 simulators feature the exact same configuration and equipment seen in your video...

No disrespect, but you're really doing your own argument a disservice by repeatedly falling back on the same old "herez my exported L-15 cockpit, prove me wrong" argument...
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right, 2022 is old. In most of the world 2022 would be considered rather new.
again we are going in circles, the video shows some differences than the screenshots of the simulators. I've already provided pictures of the L-15. you are unable to provide more details on the screenshot, such as where it came from, etc. Since we are not convincing each other, its best to go back to the J-10.
 
Ah, looks like they drove the J10CE away themselves. I heard the order was for 24 planes.
 
https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/algeria-j10ce-kj500-china-fighter-deal-russia-mediterranean/

Algeria’s Reported J-10CE Deal Could Break Russia’s Fighter Monopoly and Expand China’s Reach Into the Mediterranean​

Algeria’s reported negotiations for 30–40 J-10CE fighters and up to five KJ-500 airborne early-warning aircraft could weaken Russia’s historic defence monopoly, strengthen China’s Mediterranean presence and transform the Maghreb air-power balance from 2027.​

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SUPER=BUG said:
In short, the J10ce for Uzbekistan has almost become a done deal. The only thing that confuses me a bit is that the delivery time seems to be taking a while...
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Yes, according to Ayi, the aircraft have been ready almost since some time, but the Uzbeki pilots needed some time.
 
looks like the standard grey livery used by the PLAAF, although the tail numbers are different, and I don't think the PLAAF uses red intake warning marking either. The covered flag has the same angle as the one they use below.

but a part of me was hoping they'd use the dark grey scheme that the UzAF has adopted not too long ago, on most of their aircraft.
As well as the numbering style.

uzbek-air-force-all-aircraft-album-v0-e38quqniln2c1.jpg
 
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It's not like there are many other options in that bracket to begin with (F-16 and Gripen, but both more expensive and western in origin). And given that the PLAAF will soon move on from the J-10 and that CAC will ultimately close the line, I can imagine that they can be had for a good deal on the export market. Also Pakistan created a great PR campaign by virtue of shooting down the vastly more expensive Rafales of India with their Chinese supplied kit. So the perception that Chinese offerings are second rate at best isn't holding up anymore and potential customers have taken notice. It'll be interesting what customers will make the move to even more sophisticated Chinese systems in the wake of such purchases.
 
I think there's still an export market for the J-10, but it may not be as big as some may think. Many of the current MiG-21 or F-7 users that haven't found something else, are usually those countries that might not be in a position to buy any new jets (Libya, Yemen, etc).
I think its also not the Russian offerings that would challenge the J-10, but other Chinese aircraft such as the JF-17, L-15, and JL-9, the latter three of which have had some success in Africa.
In a few years, the J-10 will compete with CCAs, of which there could be a large number of offerings.
 
Reliable sources from China have repeatedly hinted that Algeria and Indonesia have finalized their purchase of the J‑10C, though no official news has confirmed this. And Egypt is unlikely to acquire the J‑10C under U.S. pressure.
 
helmutkohl said:
I think there's still an export market for the J-10, but it may not be as big as some may think. Many of the current MiG-21 or F-7 users that haven't found something else, are usually those countries that might not be in a position to buy any new jets (Libya, Yemen, etc).
I think its also not the Russian offerings that would challenge the J-10, but other Chinese aircraft such as the JF-17, L-15, and JL-9, the latter three of which have had some success in Africa.
In a few years, the J-10 will compete with CCAs, of which there could be a large number of offerings.
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Well, in principle I’d agree with you, but the leap from the current generation to 5th + CCA or even next generation will, in the long run, probably be reserved for only a small, elite circle of air forces (the USA, China, and then it gets rather tight), so that, at least for those countries that are still flying significantly older models, I believe that aircraft such as the Rafale, Typhoon, F-16 Block 70, F-15X and even the J-10CE make perfect sense, especially as, in my view, Russia will play an increasingly minor role as an exporter (if any at all).
 
helmutkohl said:
In a few years, the J-10 will compete with CCAs, of which there could be a large number of offerings.
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I'd expect CCA control wiobe the obvious direction of mid life upgrade for J-10c family.
It's still a full fighter with pilot; CCA do compete with it, but not directly.
 
helmutkohl said:
a higher res screenshot from the video above via Devil_R22 on reddit
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Hopefully it keeps conquering the smaller Turkic markets away from Rafale... The Kazakhs need something heavier anyway (they reportedly asked for the J-16 but were offered the J-10CE instead) and are supposedly looking to move to 5th-gens "within 2 years" (they'll probably end up with the Su-57)...

It may not look as cool as the F-16 or as sleek as the Rafale, but there's something quite aesthetically pleasing about the J-10C's overall design configuration... (canted radome plate, delta canard, ventral fins, dorsal hump, DSI, etc...)
 
snne said:
Hopefully it keeps conquering the smaller Turkic markets away from Rafale... The Kazakhs need something heavier anyway (they reportedly asked for the J-16 but were offered the J-10CE instead) and are supposedly looking to move to 5th-gens "within 2 years" (they'll probably end up with the Su-57)...

It may not look as cool as the F-16 or as sleek as the Rafale, but there's something quite aesthetically pleasing about the J-10C's overall design configuration... (canted radome plate, delta canard, ventral fins, dorsal hump, DSI, etc...)
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When I first heard the rumors about possible Rafale sales to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan a year or two ago, I had some skepticism. I know Central Asian countries have been diversifying these last few years (KZ with Airbus transports and helicopters, Turkmenistan with Leonardo trainers, etc), but a full blown fighter jet was not a line I think they'd cross yet.

I'm not surprised about them eventually buying Chinese. Every time I've been to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan or Uzbekistan, Chinese influence was everywhere, especially the latter two. The hotel lobby had a ton of Chinese business people checking in. In the main city squares, you'd see pro China banners thanking them for whatever (new infrastructure, vehicles, etc). That said, that's at the government level. The local individual level is not so positive.

I've also read articles about Su-57s to Kazakhstan within two years, but at this point, I'm not really going to believe it until they actually start flying it. J-16s is one I have not heard of and feel it is unlikely due to the controversy over the license with Russia.
I can believe Turkic countries flying manned aircraft from TAI one day, as they already fly the unmanned ones.
 
@helmutkohl Even with increased production, given its current backlog, I don't see any of the smaller Turkic states with Soviet relics going for the Rafale, plus it's damn expensive compared to the J-10CE (~$40-60M flyaway, ~$110M complete export package)... Same goes for the F-16 + its American strings & Gripen...

You raise a fair point though. Central Asian states are heavily influenced by China (& Russia) and operate both Chinese and Turkish equipment. AZ and UZB for example, now both operate Chinese fighters (J-17B-BII/C-BIII & J-10CE) as well as Turkish drones (Anka/TB-2/Akinci)...

But there's no way TA(I) can penetrate that market with Kaan; at most, it'll be with Hürjet as a LIFT/LCA... (mostly smaller states, Kaan's availability for export in the coming decade, expensive to operate, planned aircraft replacement timeframes of individual states, etc.)

Kazakhs asked for the J-16 (reportedly!) because they operate out of only two bases across their entire giant landmass, and they have some Su-27s to replace (Su-30s are still young). What puzzles me about this coverage is the well-known deal with China and Sino-Flanker exports... Surely they must've known about it?

W.r.t. KZ and Su-57; it's in production and most of the 76-aircraft initial order has been fulfilled so far. Russians also recently delivered their first export units, and it's well known that they're interested in selling even more.

Even if Russia has been losing its influence over them, it can never be truly lost anytime soon, and the Kazakhs have plenty of incentive to preserve it -- including replacing their Russian heavy fighters with newer, 5th-gen Russian heavy fighters...

Russian requirements that shaped the Su-57 also happen to overlap heavily with what they need from their new fighter...
 

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So according to a semicredible source we could be expecting to see orders from Indonesia, Algeria and Bangladesh after Uzbekistan's batch wraps up along with possible orders from other "well behaving" countries like Vietnam in the future.

Though they did also mention sales to Iran is very unlikely due to current geopolitical concerns in the foreseeable future.

Anyhow if true that would mean J-10 could have up to 5 foreign operators and likely a overall foreign fleet of 120+, this would be a great first step to Chinese high-end exports.
 
Maybe that's what the west wants/desires, but if any issues between Vietnam and China are resolved amiably i don't see why Vietnam wouldn't want to acquire chinese gear, it's comparatively cheap, very capable and comes without any "baggages" overhyped western systems come with. I'm not sure if Vietnam still operates MiG-21 alongside their Su-27/30 and Su-22 but J-10 would be a perfect replacement for MiG-21/Su-22, giving Vietnam a high-lo mix of Su-27/30 (and possibly Su-35) alongside J-10CE in the near future.
 

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