Dassault Rafale --- TECHNICAL News Only !!!!!!!

A quick Rafale update from Indonesia:
  • Indonesia looking to buy an additional 8-16 Rafales, funding permitting (LOI signed, contract negotiations underway)
  • Deliveries of 42 Rafales to start this year (October 2025), at an initial rate of ~1 Rafale per month
  • Initial deliveries will include 200x AASM Hammer bombs in 2026-2027
  • However Meteor missile deliveries are delayed as the contract hasn't yet entered into force (funding problems?)... Meteor deliveries will take 3.5 years so Indonesia's Rafales won't have Meteor for a while
https://armyrecognition.com/news/ar...-12-rafale-jets-with-submarines-and-howitzers
View: https://www.youtube.com/live/4rt51hr9yj0?feature=shared
 
H_K said:
  • Deliveries of 42 Rafales to start this year (October 2025), at an initial rate of ~1 Rafale per month
  • Initial deliveries will include 200x AASM Hammer bombs in 2026-2027
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<5 bombs per plane? Ugh...
 
Remember that's just the initial weapons package... Indonesia won't even have received all 42 Rafales by 2028 (counting 3 years from contract in force, and deliveries at a rate of 1x/month takes you into late 2029 for the last batch of 18 Rafales). And we don't know what's planned in the AASM contract for after 2028.
 
Found this good update on Rafale development, ahead of the Paris Air Show:
  • 70% of the French Rafale fleet has now been upgraded to F4.1 standard
  • More details on F4 and F5 roadmaps (see below)
  • Future UCAV/Loyal Wingman will have high commonality with Rafale F5 (flight controls, M88 engine, EO/IR sensor, Spectra self-protection suite)
  • Likewise SCAF/NGF will "not be starting from scratch", but will continue with the current incremental design philosophy, leveraging Rafale F5 modules (combat system and avionics) in an all new stealth platform, first flight of demonstrator in 2029/30
https://www.areion24.news/2025/06/04/le-rafale-senvole-vers-de-nouveaux-horizons/
Standard | Qualification date | Key capabilities

F3R | October 2018 | RBE2 AESA radar + Meteor missile, Talios targeting pod + AASM 250kg laser guided bomb, auto ground collision avoidance system, new buddy refueling pod (Narang NG), Spectra self-protection suite upgrades

F4.1 | March 2023 | Scorpion helmet display, new IRST, AASM 1,000kg bomb, new radar modes (SAR, GMTI), new collaborative modes (enhanced passive detection, Meteor missile guidance by another aircraft)

F4.2 | Summer 2025 | Increased weapons carriage (+2 pylons for Mica missiles), Satcom, virtual training modes, improved carrier auto-land (paving the way for carrier-based UCAVs)

F4.3 | Summer 2027 | Mica NG missile, new digital jammer, new digital radio with sovereign datalink, AI modes (auto target recognition for radar and targeting pod)

F5.1 | 2033 and F5.2 | 2037 | SEAD/DEAD and anti-stealth capabilities with new RBE2 XG AESA radar with GAN modules + new digital ESM suite + new EO/IR sensor for long-range detection + UCAV/loyal wingman, low probability of detection datalinks, new A2G weapons (extended range AASM NG bombs, MBDA Smart weapons with swarming capabilities), AS4NG nuclear missile
 
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H_K said:
Found this good update on Rafale development, ahead of the Paris Air Show:
  • 70% of the French Rafale fleet has now been upgraded to F4.1 standard
  • More details on F4 and F5 roadmaps (see below)
  • Future UCAV/Loyal Wingman will have high commonality with Rafale F5 (flight controls, M88 engine, EO/IR sensor, Spectra self-protection suite)
  • Likewise SCAF/NGF will "not be starting from scratch", but will continue with the current incremental design philosophy, leveraging Rafale F5 modules (combat system and avionics) in an all new stealth platform, first flight of demonstrator in 2029/30
https://www.areion24.news/2025/06/04/le-rafale-senvole-vers-de-nouveaux-horizons/
Standard | Qualification date | Key capabilities

F3R | October 2018 | RBE2 AESA radar + Meteor missile, Talios targeting pod + AASM 250kg laser guided bomb, auto ground collision avoidance system, new buddy refueling pod (Narang NG), Spectra self-protection suite upgrades

F4.1 | March 2023 | Scorpion helmet display, new IRST, AASM 1,000kg bomb, new radar modes (SAR, GMTI), new collaborative modes (enhanced passive detection, Meteor missile guidance by another aircraft)

F4.2 | Summer 2025 | Increased weapons carriage (+2 pylons for Mica missiles), Satcom, virtual training modes, improved carrier auto-land (paving the way for carrier-based UCAVs)

F4.2 | Summer 2027 | Mica NG missile, new digital jammer, new digital radio with sovereign datalink, AI modes (auto target recognition for radar and targeting pod)

F5.1 | 2033 and F5.2 | 2037 | SEAD/DEAD and anti-stealth capabilities with new RBE2 XG AESA radar with GAN modules + new digital ESM suite + new EO/IR sensor for long-range detection + UCAV/loyal wingman, low probability of detection datalinks, new A2G weapons (extended range AASM NG bombs, MBDA Smart weapons with swarming capabilities), AS4NG nuclear missile
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Is there a two way datalink for meteor ?
 
Long Q&A interview with Dassault CEO Eric Trappier:

“The Rafale is better than the F-35 and all Chinese aircraft”: Dassault boss​

https://www.challenges.fr/entrepris...nois-les-verites-du-patron-de-dassault_605879
He mentions CFTs for the future Rafale F5 standard and also explains why they've prioritized a stealthy UCAV / loyal wingman, which should be operational in 7 years (2033), rather than a stealthier Rafale. Also expects 2-3 more export customers to join the Rafale club.

Twenty years after its entry into service, is the Rafale still world-class?

It's always complicated to say that we're the best in absolute terms, but I sincerely think that we offer the best compromise. It's obvious that in an air confrontation with an F-22, it's going to be complicated for the Rafale. But if you want a single aircraft capable of air-to-air missions, reconnaissance, air-to-ground strikes, nuclear strike, and able to operate from an aircraft carrier, I think that the Rafale is indeed the best aircraft in the world, better than the F-35 and much better than all the Chinese aircraft on the market. It perfectly meets the needs of the French armed forces and the countries that have purchased it.

Isn't this "omnirole" character also the Rafale's weak point, good everywhere but best nowhere?

This is the choice the French armed forces made: a single aircraft for all missions, instead of specialized aircraft. The Mirage 2000 was a good aircraft, but many versions were needed: Mirage 2000D for ground attack, Mirage 2000-5 for air-to-air, Mirage 2000N for nuclear strike... The Americans have the means to afford a range of fighters, with air superiority aircraft like the F-22 and the future F-47, and aircraft for air-to-ground missions. France, which does not have a comparable military budget, has chosen versatility. It was the right choice: the Rafale is a remarkable aircraft.

Will the Rafale's future F5 standard, planned for the early 2030s, with increased collaborative combat capabilities and a UCAV, multiply what the Rafale can do?

We had two options. We could have designed a stealth aircraft right away. Given the new threats, significant payload capability was needed, particularly for new missiles, which meant a much larger aircraft. This implies a more powerful engine, required a lot of development and was not compatible with the renewal schedule for the French nuclear deterrent (the ASN4G hypersonic missile, planned for 2035). The NGF (fighter component of the FCAS program) will allow us to build a demonstrator to see what compromises to aim for.

The other option, which is what we chose, was to add a stealth UCAV to the Rafale: the maximum stealth capabilities will be not in the piloted aircraft, but in the drone that accompanies it . We have already demonstrated with Neuron that we know how to make a very stealthy aircraft, in cooperation with 6 countries.

How big will this drone be? It will probably have the wingspan of the Mirage 2000. It will be a fairly massive aircraft, as it will need to carry weapons internally. The size is determined by the size of the missiles it carries.

Combat drones in 2033? We can't go any faster.

Isn't there a temptation to do the UCAV faster? 2032-2033 seems a long way off...

That's what some people say... "just get it done". But I'm sorry, to develop a new weapon like this takes a little time. We need to develop a stealth aircraft the size of a fighter, with integrated sensors and algorithms that will allow it to carry out the operations assigned to it, not simply to fly an aircraft alongside a Rafale. Honestly, seven years to reach an operational standard is already a great challenge! We can't go any faster. Not for something like this.

Some will say that others are doing it, in the United States or in Turkey...

Those who say that don't have the skills. I know many of them. If you look at the Americans, who do have the skills, they also take a long time. The F-35 or the F-22 didn't happen that way. And we'll see how long it will take for the F-47 to come out and be operational, even though the project is already well advanced, it seems.

Safran is offering a more powerful version of the M88, the Rafale's engine, called the T-Rex. Is this a priority?

This is a real discussion. Safran now has a program that allows us to bring more powerful version of the M88 to the Rafale F5 standard. This is an interesting option, because the aircraft will become a little heavier, if only because of the planned weapons and the desire to install CFTs (Conformal Fuel Tanks). With a heavier aircraft, having an engine with a little more thrust is logical. It would also be a technological step towards the future NGF engine, which represents a significant breakthrough.

A study published by IFRI in January warned of a possible technology gap for the non-stealthy Rafale, which is "systematically dominated in air combat" by the F-35, and which could be relegated to acting as an "auxiliary" in a high-intensity conflict...

Rafale's success has made some people jealous; I imagine they are trying to make up for it. The F-35 has a slight advantage because it was designed to be stealthy, which is not the case with the Rafale, since the stealth option was not retained by the French State for budgetary reasons. But there are several limitations. First, F-35's stealth is not 360 degrees . Second, it involves housing weapons in the hold, which greatly limits the payload capacity. The real question is how to get past very dense enemy defenses, how to destroy their radars and air defenses, what aviators call SEAD [Suppression of Enemy Air Defense]. This is not only about the aircraft, but about on-board weapons. We could integrate an anti-radar missile on the Rafale, but there are none in France. As for those who think that, because some countries buy the F-35, French Air Force and Navy will be relegated to the role of auxiliaries, we'll be waiting a long time if we think European countries equipped with F-35s will be leading the way ahead of French Rafales flying support missions...

The American F-35 has more than 650 orders in Europe. With Trump's second term in office, has Europe realized that it must limit its dependence on American weapons?

I'm like Saint Thomas, I'll believe it when I see it. What is factual is that Denmark, after Trump's threats to annex Greenland, told the Americans: "You're going to invade Greenland, so I'll buy weapons from you [additional F-35s]." Unbelievable! Second observation: Belgium, which hosts the headquarters of the European Commission, announced, in the middle of a trade war with the United States, that it will buy F-35s... I note that even the countries that are developing the Typhoon (Eurofighter) are ordering F-35s: the United Kingdom, Italy, Germany.

It's depressing...

It's a fact. I don't believe Europeans are buying the F-35 because, as the very "intelligent" people in Brussels say, there is a fragmentation of the European fighter jet offering, with the Rafale, Eurofighter, and Gripen. Europeans are buying American because there is an American preference in Europe. When I say this, everyone smiles, but it's the reality. Our major partners are elsewhere: in Egypt, the Middle East, India, all the way to Indonesia. It's thanks to them that we exist, in addition to our French customer, of course.

Still, 3 European countries have ordered the Rafale... (Greece, Croatia, Serbia)

Yes, and it's a real success for us. Greece is a traditional customer, which has always bought French aircraft alongside the United States. The other two countries were part of the former Eastern Bloc, with MiGs and Sukhois. They switched to us, which is a very good thing. The Croatians tell us that they are very satisfied with their aircraft.

Is there still potential for more Rafale orders?

I think there are still two or three countries that could join the Rafale club. And it's certain that current customers will need more aircraft. But their priority today is more to replenish their weapons stocks (missiles, munitions).

Emmanuel Macron has mentioned an upcoming new French Rafale order, possibly for around thirty aircraft. When will the contract be signed?

We have a lot of work to do to deliver the Rafale jets ordered for export, but we are watching this French order closely, because it concerns our armed forces. But the question the entire defense industry is asking is whether France has the financial means to place orders at this time. The President of the Republic and the Minister of the Armed Forces want to accelerate budget increases, but my impression is that the €3 billion increase provided for in the Military Programming Law (LPM) is already difficult to meet. Our debt is really holding us back.

Are you convinced by the Commission's plans to strengthen the defence industry, such as the EDIP regulation or the SAFE instrument (€150 billion in joint borrowing)?

If I look at tools like SAFE, they are financial tools for borrowing at a better rate, avoiding VAT, etc. After all, why not? But they are not tools that allow you to build an F-35, an F-47, or a Rafale. If Brussels, instead of creating standards, put in place real support so that states could purchase European equipment, it could be proof that Europe can be truly useful.

What could Europe do smarter?

Instead of creating ultra-complex cooperation schemes with a certain number of countries and manufacturers, with incomprehensible property rights, Europe could help states finance the equipment their armies need. Does France need Rafale jets? Europe could help finance this effort, which would also allow aircraft to be sent to the eastern flank to reassure the countries in the region. I advocate for a pragmatic Europe, which builds on what already exists and contributes to strengthening the military capabilities of states. But if we want to create a European defense system with 27 members, developing equipment that will be operational in 15 years, that is a complete utopia.

The Rafale production rate has increased from one to two aircraft per month since 2020, and is expected to increase to four or even five in the coming years. Can the supply chain keep up?

It's a daily challenge, particularly for aerostructure manufacturers [fuselage and wing parts]. Ramp-up is difficult because suppliers have been hit hard by the Covid crisis, and the increase in Rafale production rates is happening in parallel with that of Airbus.

How do you deal with these difficulties?

There are some parts we remanufacture in-house. Sometimes we bring them back in-house, then outsource them to subcontractors we know well and who are willing to do the work, like Potez. We also send workers, technicians, and engineers to the sites of struggling suppliers to help them get through the crisis. For us, this is more of a destabilizing factor than a stabilizing one, but necessity is the law.
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I wonder if they are pushing the range topic or if it is simply a case of putting somethign interesting out there?

https://www.twz.com/air/rafale-reemerges-with-conformal-fuel-tanks
RAFALE-B-WITH-CFTs.jpg
 
tyrin said:
UAE seems seomwhat likely to be the buyer of this upgrade… We will see.


F-16E with CFTs and their extensive tanker fleet means they would generally prefer jets with enhanced fuel load.

Their potential biggest enemy(Iran) is huge geographically.
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Makes sense I think they were the original customer way back when they first got demoed.
 
H_K said:
low probability of detection datalinks
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So finally implementing FO3D?

H_K said:
Long Q&A interview with Dassault CEO Eric Trappier:

“The Rafale is better than the F-35 and all Chinese aircraft”: Dassault boss​

https://www.challenges.fr/entrepris...nois-les-verites-du-patron-de-dassault_605879
He mentions CFTs for the future Rafale F5 standard and also explains why they've prioritized a stealthy UCAV / loyal wingman, which should be operational in 7 years (2033), rather than a stealthier Rafale. Also expects 2-3 more export customers to join the Rafale club.
Click to expand...
Overall some interesting bits here and there, but the most amusing bit was how big of an ego Eric's got to say that with a straight face.
 
ComradeVortex said:
Slight OT.

Su 30/27 will be gone despite potential
Ex-PLAAF J-10s are just rumours
KAAN only a dream, maybe
KF-21 still in dark tunnel

Actually we just hope on
F-16V, Rafale, F15EX at near time

So, in the future, Indonesian Air Force may operating:

Sukhoi-27
Sukhoi-30
F-16
T/A-50
Hawk-209
Rafale
KF-21 ( Probably ) x
Sukhoi-35 ( Rumour )
F-15EX ( Rumour )
J-10A/C ( Rumour )
KAAN ( Rumour )
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helmutkohl said:
imho, to consolidate the fleet for the next 15 years...
I think they should retire the F-16s (too old), the Flankers (old and also CAATSA), and Hawks (old).
Focus on Rafale for immediate needs, keep the T-50 for training, and focus on the Kaan (expanding Indo-Turkish links, 5th gen design, and likely the range for Indonesia's vast territory) and Boramae (offers some industrial offsets, tech transfers, and also something they can start receiving within the next 5 years while the Kaan arrives later)
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I've moved the topic here since it fits the thread better.

So, after posting on the Kaan thread, I've done some research, and here's the thing. Since 2022, Indonesian Air Force combat air structure looks like this :

RSN (6th Wing) -
12 SQD (Hawk 109/209 20 aircrafts introduced)
16 SQD (F-16 C/D 16 aircrafts introduced, several aircraft reintroduced to 14 SQD)

SPO (7th Wing) -
1 SQD (Hawk 109/209 20 aircrafts introduced)

IWY (3th Wing) -
3 SQD (F-16 AM/BM 12 aircrafts initially introduced) (F-16 C/D 8 aircrafts initially introduced, later completely reintorduced to 14 SQD)
14 SQD (F-16 C/D more than 8 aircraft handed over from 16 SQD and 3 SQD)
15 SQD (T-50i 22 aircrafts introduced in total)

HND (5th Wing) -
11 SQD (Su-27/30 16 aircrafts introduced in total)

ABD (2th Wing) -
21 SQD (EMB-314 16 aircrafts introduced)

but with the introduction of Rafale starting from 2026, above structure will be changed for improved operational efficiency, as follows :

RSN (6th Wing) -
12 SQD (14 Rafale) (Hawks retired)
16 SQD (14 Rafale) (reintroduction of remaining F-16C/Ds to 3th Wing)

SPO (7th Wing) -
1 SQD (14 Rafale) (Hawks retired)

IWY (3th Wing) -
3 SQD (10 F-16 AM/BM) (possible reintroduction of F-16C/D?)
14 SQD (Ca. 20 F-16 C/D)
15 SQD (19 T-50i)

HND (5th Wing) -
11 SQD (16 Su-27/30)

ABD (2th Wing) -
21 SQD (13 EMB-314)

As you could see, 6th Wing will only operate Rafales, alongside 7th Wing (that is, only counting their fighter squadrons). 3th Wing will specialize in F-16s, and T-50 having large parts comonality with F-16 would make logistics and support much more efficient. Since Indonesia has sent LOI for 12~18 additional Rafales to Dassault, there's a possibility that those aircrafts would be for replacing another squadron, but I think there's a higher chance that those additional aircrafts are to beef-up the pre-existing ones, since with 42 aircrafts, all Rafale squadrons will only have 14 aircraft each. When equally distributed, 12~18 additional Rafales would mean 18~20 Rafales per squadron.

Going a bit off topic, Indonesian Air Force would also need replacement fighters for 3 SQD and 14 SQD in the near term, since all of their Falcons are already more than 30 years old. Their AM/BMs at least have undergone two separate SLEPs, but close to end of service life none the less. By 2030s, their Flanker fleets will also enter 30 years of active service, without major upgrade. If the Indonesians stick to the IF-X programme, their plan of procuring 48 aircrafts would mean 3 squadrons of 16 aircraft each, replacing 3 SQD, 14 SQD and 11 SQD. Lastly, according to their MEF policy, they require 10 fast jet sqaudrons of 180 aircrafts. Since they would have 3 squadrons of Rafales, 1 sqaudron of T-50i, 3 squadrons of IF-X by mid 2030s if all goes well, they will need 3 additional squadrons to fulfill the MEF requirements. Recent MOU concerning Kaan stated 48 aircrafts, which would mean 3 sqaudrons of 16 aircraft each, fulfilling Indonesian Air Force requirements. 3 squadrons of Rafale, 3 squadrons of IF-X, 3 squadrons of Kaan and 1 squadron of T-50i.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
Overall some interesting bits here and there, but the most amusing bit was how big of an ego Eric's got to say that with a straight face.
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Well to be fair to him, if you read beyond the journalist’s clickbait title, what Trappier actually said was a little more nuanced:

It's always complicated to say that we're the best in absolute terms, but I sincerely think that we offer the best compromise. It's obvious that in an air confrontation with an F-22, it's going to be complicated for the Rafale. But if you want a single aircraft capable of air-to-air missions, reconnaissance, air-to-ground strikes, nuclear strike, and able to operate from an aircraft carrier, I think that the Rafale is indeed the best aircraft in the world, better than the F-35 and much better than all the Chinese aircraft on the market. It perfectly meets the needs of the French armed forces and the countries that have purchased it.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, old posts get forgotten, old rules, too ... , so again :

This is a NEWS ONLY thread, so, please only post NEWS here, without personal comments or opinions !

And yes, with time, this again and again becomes slack, but new posts, not applying to that rule will simply be deleted, without any notice !
 
1750011617121.png

EDGE/Denel Al-Tariq’s on display as well as P32 Thunder right next to it in the blue.

1750011725943.png


UAE Rafale

Very cool model of a United Arab Emirates Air Force #Rafale fitted with six @_edgegroup Al-Tariq guided munitions. First UAE Rafale was unveiled earlier this year, but will be based in France for testing, presumably for integration of UAE weaponry. #PAS2025
 
tyrin said:
View attachment 774324

EDGE/Denel Al-Tariq’s on display as well as P32 Thunder right next to it in the blue.

View attachment 774325


UAE Rafale

Very cool model of a United Arab Emirates Air Force #Rafale fitted with six @_edgegroup Al-Tariq guided munitions. First UAE Rafale was unveiled earlier this year, but will be based in France for testing, presumably for integration of UAE weaponry. #PAS2025
Click to expand...

Wonder if they will be allowed to participate in Falcon Shield once they’ve entered service.
 
tyrin said:
View attachment 774324

EDGE/Denel Al-Tariq’s on display as well as P32 Thunder right next to it in the blue.

View attachment 774325


UAE Rafale

Very cool model of a United Arab Emirates Air Force #Rafale fitted with six @_edgegroup Al-Tariq guided munitions. First UAE Rafale was unveiled earlier this year, but will be based in France for testing, presumably for integration of UAE weaponry. #PAS2025
Click to expand...
As mentioned before, they will also receive the Saber, and Smartglider/Smartcruiser which should be produced in the UAE by an MBDA factory as well!

From PAS 2025

1750030844034.png

IMG_1491.jpeg

There are talks of A2A missile developments in the UAE but that would require radar source code, which I’m not sure if France would easily give.
 
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https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/rafale-f5-bulks-up-with-conformal-fuel-tanks/163372.article
A comprehensive general overview of future capabilities for Rafael.

What I didn't know but learnt from this article is that there is Standard F4.3. This standard have already entered initial testing and will be fully defined by 2027, followed by induction into French Air and Space Force around 2028-2029. F5.1 will follow by 2033.

Dassault's output for Rafale this year will be 28 aircrafts, of which 13 for France. Production ramp up is ongoing in parallel and wil result in an production capacity 33 aircrafts per year. This will also be avhieved in 2025.
 
Safran launches an increased thrust version of the M88 for future developments of the Rafale

https://air-cosmos.com/article/safr...8-pour-les-futures-evolutions-du-rafale-70306
(...)
During the International Air Show, Safran is launching an evolution of its M88 engine called M88 T-REX. (...) while pushing its limits with thrust increased to 9 tonnes with post-combustion. To achieve this performance, the M88 T-REX will incorporate significant localized improvements. The evolution of the low-pressure compressor will allow the admission of a higher air flow, the high-pressure turbine will integrate new materials and new generation cooling circuits, and the nozzle will benefit from optimized aerodynamics.
(...)
The qualification of the M88 T-REX is aligned with the entry into service schedule for the Rafale to the F5 standard.
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Deltafan said:
Safran launches an increased thrust version of the M88 for future developments of the Rafale

https://air-cosmos.com/article/safr...8-pour-les-futures-evolutions-du-rafale-70306
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https://www.flightglobal.com/defenc...afale-f5-under-t-rex-programme/163415.article
They say they achieved all of that without increase in SFC. Quite an achievement considering there were SFC increases from F404 to F414.

Also the new core modules will be interchangeable with legacy modules and will be used simultaneously.
 
https://en.protothema.gr/2025/07/10...age-for-photographing-rafale-jets-in-tanagra/
A recent incident in Tanagra has escalated into a national security case, as four Chinese nationals — two men, one woman, and a young male — were caught red-handed photographing sensitive military facilities belonging to the Hellenic Aerospace Industry (EAB) and the 114th Combat Wing, where state-of-the-art Rafale fighter jets are stationed. Their initial presence near the facilities prompted immediate intervention from EAB security, which asked them to leave the area. However, they moved to a nearby bridge and continued taking photos, disregarding the warning.

What followed was swift: the Military Police of the 114th Wing was notified, located the four individuals, and handed them over to the Tanagra Police Department. Authorities later discovered a significant volume of photographic material in their possession, taken from the wider military area. The four Chinese nationals were detained, and today they were formally charged with espionage.
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