Sukhoi Su-57 flight testing and development

snne said:
Isn't that literally what almost everyone on the West's side did at the sight of this image of a prototype?

I find it hypocritical to criticize a large group of people for what just a couple of dudes with a camera have done, while at the same time paying no mind to objectively how the majority on the other side have behaved.

View attachment 746815

My point is, no matter which side you're on; we all have to be above this "haha Russian equipment junk" idiocracy if we have not just functional brains but are also as enthusiastic as we claim to be.
Click to expand...
I was addressing the video right above, which is the current material we have of the day. Should I also add a footnote underneath my original comment: "also western media also have in the past erroneously attribute a lack of technological advancement to early prototypes".

I mean why not go all out and keep adding footnote after footnote tracing back to when china was colonized by the west? Would that add a more complete historical timeline of the unfairness from the west to satisfy your grievances?

Unless my comment was "chinese media unfair, western media very fair" I don't see how your knee jerk reaction was anyway warranted.
 
donnage99 said:
"also western media also have in the past erroneously attribute a lack of technological advancement to early prototypes"
Click to expand...

Also the present, unfortunately:

https://www.flightglobal.com/defenc...-build-quality-in-zhuhai-debut/160602.article
An early prototype airframe. Which is by now more than a decade old. And known to lack production LO treatments, among which are flexible seals to cover such things as control surface hinges. And coatings to obscure rivets, that by the way are also well known to feature on the much vaunted Western LO designs. All the while ignoring the excellent fit and finish of the lower wing skin - given the glossy paint, any irregularities would be extremely obvious and magnified in this footage. And to add insult to injury, failing to make the basic distinction between poor build quality and intentional excrescences like air data sensors and IRST.

I genuinely do not get what this is supposed to achieve? It's definitely not diligent, impartial journalism and basically leaves open only two options: a) the author and editors are ignorant in their ostensible area of expertise b) they expect their audience to be ignorant, and contrary to their job description as journalists have zero intention of educating it. I'm not actually sure which of these is worse, to be frank - with all the good will in the world it is hard to find a charitable explanation.
 
Last edited:
All the shots from the factory before the camo paint show a very smooth finish for the production units. This one came before the production units. If I understood correctly the next version will have several improvements.
 
By the way, is there any grounds to the worse fit & finish of Russian/Soviet jets? I've only had the chance to see the Mig-29 in person, but it didn't look appreciably worse than what I've seen of the Eurofighter/Tornado (All right it did look a *bit* worse, especially towards the back, but it wasn't egregious or anything).
Not sure how American designs compare.
 
Have you seen super hornets up close? The last one I saw had a hole on the radar radome, maybe it got hit by lighting at some point. A lot of airplanes also have sealant putty applied to some panels. I do think western manufacturing pays more attention to surface finish that the Russians, on top of that; most Russian airplanes are left out to the elements.
 
The MiG-29 is actually very poor in terms of fit and finish, excepting (curiously enough) the radome, which is very good. Conversely, the Flanker family is generally built to a higher standard... apart from the radome, which is very rough (at least pre Su-35)! One remarkable thing about the Flankers is that the forward fuselage is noticeably more irregular than the rear half (say from the wing LE aft). It appears to me that this might be due to a combination of unusually large double curvature skin panels (due to the sheer size of the thing and its blended layout) and a reliance on stressed skin to a greater degree than most other fighter aircraft. If you've seen the photo of that Hawkeye touching down on a carrier deck, it is obvious how such construction could be prone to wrinkling in a high-g airframe.
 
Thanks @snne but the drawing doesn't reflect what we are seeing here. For example the bay door unfold downward.

@flateric : yes, I will eat my hat if that is a missile bay. But that's not what we are seeing yet.

For example there is no apparent mechanism to refrain the door from closing due to the airstream. Two of the frwd latches are affixed to what appears to be a sliding tray but their geometry don't include fasteners that would counteract repetitive loadings from the airstream. I think that's why @paralay choose to make it open upward despite the lack of available volume, as it is evident in the picture.

Also do you guys really think that this opening is at least 0.5m wide (the span of the suspected missile seen in the alleged launch video)?
 
Last edited:
TomcatViP said:
Thanks @snne but the drawing doesn't reflect what we are seeing here. For example the bay door unfold downward.

@flateric : yes, I will eat my hat if that is a missile bay. But that's not what we are seeing yet.

For example there is no apparent mechanism to refrain the door from closing due to the airstream. Two of the frwd latches are affixed to what appears to be a sliding tray but their geometry don't include fasteners that would counteract repetitive loadings from the airstream. I think that's why @paralay choose to make it open upward despite the lack of available volume, as it is evident in the picture.

Also do you guys really think that this opening is at least 0.5m wide (the span of the suspected missile seen in the alleged launch video)?
Click to expand...
It's been something like 5 years and you're still on this.
 
It is clear we saw a missile fire from it. At least imo. In the video the missile is skewed outward. Does the exhaust temporarily go into the rear of the bay? Might be a stupid question but that is how it appeared to me.
 
Rather than the underwing bay, my eye's caught by the upper surface and that projecting panel(?) just inboard of that double inlet at the base of the tail. I'd like to see it from another angle to figure out quite what we're looking at, but on the surface it looks sub-optimal for whatever it's supposed to be.
 
The pictures are from the static test unit being unpacked from the airplane; with panels not attached. In other words; not fully assembled when the guy started snapping pictures. It is also a testing unit; not final production. If the Russians had brought a production unit and had these “quality” issues then it would be different story. No one gives other manufacturers a hard time for bringing a mock-up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The legitimacy of Hurin's posts is usually questionable at best and this is a surprising development, but is this our first pic of the naked engine?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854771809431732448
View: https://x.com/Hurin92/status/1854771809431732448


Gb15IXgXEAE6viG
 
Thanks flateric that is what I was thinking but did not understand the mechanics behind the visual clues in that one missile firing snippet.

If it is true that this is a display of the izd30 then it is a long time coming to finally see it... I would be a happy guy. The biggest fighter jet moment for me since the su-75 unveiling will be the izd30 flying on an su-57. Also witnessing a loaded j-15 being thrown off the deck by catapult will be another huge event.

Edit: added a thought
 
Last edited:
siegecrossbow said:
It’s real. They are displaying in Zhuhai. Despite the fact that it is close to service the Chinese are more conservative and will not be displaying WS-15.
Click to expand...
If you will read posts above with link to other thread you will discover that this is not Izd.30.
 
The information from Rostec is quite unclear. Literally it states: "... an absolutely new engine of the fifth generation for the most modern aircraft of the operational-tactical aviation". So it could be AL-51 as well as "Udlinitel" (see above).
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom