Soviet SST designs from the '60s

[Jemiba]

From aero 1962, some designs which are said to have been published in
the press "behind the iron curtain"
The first picture shows a designs from Myasishew, Ilyushin and Tupolev
(from top to bottom), the other picture shows an unknown design.

 

[boxkite]

Comparing your second picture with the lower one in the artist's impression I've downloaded from the Internet a few years ago, it seems they 'sovietized' the Boeing(?) ;D

 

[flateric]

From aero 1962, some designs which are said to have been published in
the press "behind the iron curtain"

Of course this was never published here in times of iron curtain

 

[avatar]

why the canards ... possible strike conversion?

 

[Jemiba]

"Of course this was never published here in times of iron curtain"

Mr. Loginow, director of Aeroflot is given as the one, who showed these designs ... ???

 

[flateric]

Eugeny Loginov was Minister of Civil Aviation...
Interesting, but I've never seen these side views ever, while, believe me, have tons of sci-pop magazines (and there were quite a few titles here published in Soviet era).
Needless to say that first one resembles M-50/52 based M-53A design, and the second is IL-66...
May be we see another example of reverse publicity.

 

[Triton]

Model of Myasishchev 55V passenger SST project plane found at USSR-Russian Aviation and Space Collectibles web site.

15` lenght hand made model of Myasishchev`s `55` passenger SST project airliner based on M-56 experimental project bomber with six VK-15M engines.Speed 2650 km/h at altitude up to 22 km. That was one of first Soviet project of supersonic passenger airliner.Project started in 1959.

http://www.ussr-airspace.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_39_38_102&products_id=718

 

[OM]

Of course this was never published here in times of iron curtain

...In America, you publish state secrets. In Soviet Union, state secrets publish you!

[thinks]

No, wait, that one doesn't work quite right... :'(

 

[Triton]

Model of Myasishchev M-53.

Via Google translate:

In 1958, EDO Myasishchev, a draft of a supersonic passenger aircraft on a "duck" with dvuhkilevym plumage and RD16-23 engines. Design of the liner has depended heavily on the results of research and development work performed during a bomber M-50 and M-52.

Source: http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/22/286/22286901_m531.jpg

 

[Orionblamblam]

From aero 1962, some designs which are said to have been published in
the press "behind the iron curtain"

Of course this was never published here in times of iron curtain

I've always wondered what the thinking was behind designing SSTs in the Soviet Union. How would this be explained to the Soviet people who'd almost certainly never get to ride on one?

 

[redstar72]

I've always wondered what the thinking was behind designing SSTs in the Soviet Union. How would this be explained to the Soviet people who'd almost certainly never get to ride on one?

My pardon... WHY?

 

[Rickshaw]

From aero 1962, some designs which are said to have been published in
the press "behind the iron curtain"

Of course this was never published here in times of iron curtain

I've always wondered what the thinking was behind designing SSTs in the Soviet Union. How would this be explained to the Soviet people who'd almost certainly never get to ride on one?

MMm, and how many people in "the West" ever got to ride on a Concord? : :

 

[Orionblamblam]

MMm, and how many people in "the West" ever got to ride on a Concord? : :

Not too many. The difference, of course, is that in the west if you wanted to ride on the Concord, all you needed to do was pay money... which you could legally earn in whatever quantity you might like. But in a Socialist Workers Paradise, that seems rather less likely.

 

[flateric]

I've always wondered what the thinking was behind designing SSTs in the Soviet Union. How would this be explained to the Soviet people who'd almost certainly never get to ride on one?

Tickets for IL-62 for a flight from Moscow to Alma-Ata (1975) were 48 RUR, while Tu-144 tickets were 68 RUR, with average engineer's salary of 120 RUR (we are talking of just graduated youngster).

Official RUR/USD exchange rate for beginning of 70s was 1,13 RUR = 1 USD, while on the black market exchange rate was 1 USD = 5-6 RUR (1970-1973).
Needless to say, that Goverment paid lion's share of Tu-144 exploitation expenses.

AFAIK Concorde one-way transatlantic ride was priced for USD 10,000 before crash, and lowered to USD 2,000 after.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Needless to say, that Goverment paid lion's share of Tu-144 exploitation expenses.

Well, I guess that explains it.

 

[robunos]

It was half-British, so there must've been an extraneous "u" in there somewhere.

The British half was the 'Con'...


cheers,
Robin.

 

[flateric]

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3805507/

 

[Cy-27]

Mentioned earlier was the Ilyushin Il-66.

This was a four-engine supersonic transport to carry between 60 and 100 passengers over a distance of 7,200 km.

The inscription below the drawing reads "Schema supersonic passenger aircraft Il-66"

Source:
Samolet Ilyushin (Eksmo 2009) Nikolai Yakubovich ISBN 978-5-699-33921-1

 

[Cy-27]

There was an article in Kriyla Rodiny in 2002 about the SST developments in the Soviet Union and mentioned the Il-66 and a development designated the Il-72. The translation comes from the Russian Aviation Research Bulletin issue 154 (June 2003).

1960: A Glance Into A Future
Kryl'ya Rodiny 2/02

It was V M Myasishchev, who was the first in the USSR to proceed with project developments of supersonic airliners. It was at the No. 23 OKB where the first scientific research studies about the requirements for such aircraft were proceeded with.

In 1960, soon after No. 23 0KB was disbanded, development of such aircraft was attempted at the S V Ilyushin OKB. In March 1960, S V Ilyushin’s memorandum, addressed to D F Ustinov (Sov Min deputy chairman), proposed to introduce a project of Il-66 supersonic airliner of steel construction into the experimental aircraft construction plans. The choice of its preliminary project configuration demonstrated the strong influence of the then prevalent preference for a delta wing and for tail-mounted engines.
The preliminary calculations suggested that this aircraft canard configuration carrying between 60 and 100 passengers, at Mach 3 would attain 7,200 km (7,300 km according to other sources) technical range. The whole development process was to be realised in 5 years.

Considering all the evidence available, the preliminary studies carried out in the defunct No. 23 OKB have germinated only at No. 156 OKB and TsAGI. This is only probable explanation for such highly optimistic performance parameters, which run well in counter to the technologies, then available in USSR. Even from today’s viewpoint, it was indeed a daring project, more based upon emotions of its creators. At onset of the sixties, the resources for its realisation were absent.

It was not surprising, that in that year, its designers in the subsequent project reduced its maximum speed by almost 1,000 km/h. This change was to enable the use of conventional light alloys in place of the steel construction.

The preliminary calculations suggested that construction of Il-72 airliner is feasible, carrying 40-60 passengers over a 4,000 to 4,500 km range at Mach 2.2. The OKB technical council evaluated this project at the start of 1961, but this project ended at this stage. Regrettably, no information was so far found about its configuration.

There was a simple cause for this decision. In that year, the No. 136 OKB of A N Tupolev was preparing a similar project. it utilised the results, achieved in the abortive project of Tu-135 supersonic combat aircraft.

One of difficult problems, baring the path towards development of a supersonic airliner is that of the power unit choice. In 1960, the RD 16-17 and RD-17-l 17F turbojet engines were under development The then most advanced was the Kuznetsov NK-6 by-pass engine of 20,000 kg take-off thrust, deemed as most suitable for a supersonic airliner. This engine was to be installed in the Tu-135.

It appears that the condition, requiring the commonality between the military and civilian aircraft projects produced its results, so the GVF leadership supported the Tupolev’s viewpoint. Therefore it was necessary to develop a special engine - the NK-144. How this history ended is well known.. The ll-66 project is of certain interest as it did reflect the viewpoint of this Ilyushin OKB towards design of aircraft of this category.

The schematic shown in the magazine (page 9) is identical to the one in the previous post (above).

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Il-66.
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art7905.htm

http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftestpilot.ru%2Frussia%2Filushin%2Fil%2F66%
2Fil66.htm&sandbox=1
"Sketchy study determined the appearance of supersonic passenger aircraft IL-66, its aircraft performance data were to provide transport of 100 people from Moscow to Khabarovsk with a cruising speed of 3000 km / h. Using PCA on this airway provides passengers with a considerable gain in time and represent economically feasible at the time. The aircraft carried out by the wind "duck" scheme to the front "floating" horizontal tail and delta wing. Four turbojet engine housed in the rear fuselage. Airframe was supposed to perform fire-resistant steel alloys.
In March 1960, Ilyushin turned to Deputy Chairman of the USSR Council of Ministers Ustinov with a proposal for the inclusion of IL-66 in experimental construction plan of the State Committee of the aviation industry. May 10, 1960 at the Technical OKB Ilyushin Board reported on the draft of IL-66 and stated that "fifteen years of experience in passenger aircraft and four years of experience on the cruise missile gives us reason to introduce technical aircraft project in the 3rd quarter of 1963 and the beginning of the summer tests in the 2nd half of 1965 ".
Apparently, the results of research in this area, resulting in the OKB-23 V. Myasishev , "settled" only in TsAGI and OKB-156 . Only this can explain such high data that went counter to the process, mastered in Soviet factories. After all, for this project in the country in the early 1960s lacked the necessary resources.
However, the leadership of the State Committee has counted the aviation industry the creation of IL-66 is too challenging and suggested considering the Ilyushin aircraft project at supersonic speed and konctruktsiey of conventional aluminum alloys. February 14, 1962, reported on the technical council Ilyushin OKB basic design SPS data, intended for transportation of 60 passengers at a distance of 4,500 km at a cruising speed of Mach 2.2. However, a large loading EDO works on the aircraft IL-18, IL-38 and construction of prototype IL-62 were not allowed to continue designing the PCA. "

 

[blackkite]

M-55 supersonic passenger plane

http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art2920.htm

http://alternathistory.com/m-55-sverkhzvukovoi-passazhirskii-samolet

"late in 1959 OKB V.m. Myasischev studies on passenger sverhzvukovomu launched the "55". Study several options showed that the most appropriate variant based on the m-50 bomber with M16-17. But already in the following year over the preferred layout by type of aircraft considered m-56 bomber.
In fact, it was the development of the project "53(bottom two pictures)". Considered 3 options:
(1)55A : designed to 40 passengers, had two engines
(2)55b(55Б) : designed to 85 passengers, had four engines(Top picture? This design seems to have 4 engines. Air intake shape is little different compared with "53" SST, and this design had a single vertical tail stabilizer.)
(3)55B : high-wing monoplane with a forward horizontal plumage. Under the triangular wing,
on the sides of the fuselage in two packages were placed six engines VC-15 m.

The plane was calculated at the speed of 2300-2650 km/h at altitudes of up to 22 km. In the shipping version (takeoff weight 245 t) he could be operated on routes with a length of 6000-6500 km with 5% fuel. While the total number of passengers must not exceed 50. Takeoff was 3500 m, mileage-1500-1700 m With 100-120 passengers was within the range 3500-4000 km.
These were the first in the USSR passenger supersonic aircraft projects. Low aerodynamic airframe and high unit costs of fuel engines prevented the boundary of 1950-60-ies to create a supersonic airliner, competitive dozvukovym machines."

No.2 drawing shows M-55B which Triton-san already showed us.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3767.0.html

55A shape is unknown?

 

[borovik]

http://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/3609913.html
Su SST T-4 for 64 passengers

 

[hesham]

http://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/3609913.html
Su SST T-4 for 64 passengers

New for me,thanks.

 

[blackkite]

Many thanks for perfect chart again.

 

[igor-mich]

New for me,thanks.

Bedretdinov's book the T-4 strike reconnaissance aircraft (2005 edition). There is information about this passenger modification. It's strange that you didn't know about her.

 

[athpilot]

The Myasichshev M-53 was one of the considered passenger aircrafts of the M-52 Bomber. From this source.

 

[riggerrob]

why the canards ... possible strike conversion?

Basic delta wing aerodynamics.
Low aspect-ratio deltas are optimized for high-speed cruise (supersonic), but they are woefully inefficient at low speeds. They need to fly at steep angles of attack at slow airspeeds. This requires a major down-load on control surfaces along the trailing edge. The down-load raises the nose to the appropriate angle for landing. This down-force reduces lift (reflex) and increases drag. Drag can get so bad that it is impossible to “power out” of the drag bucket if you get follow and too slow. One of the largest complaints about Concorde was all the power that it needed to carry during landing approaches.
The alternative is using canards to “lift” the front of the fuselage. Look at the retractable canard “whiskers” installed on the production Tupolev “Concordski.” They were only extended for low speed flight near airports.

Most modern delta-winged fighters and strike jets (Eurofighter, French Rafael, SAAB Grippen and Viggen) use canards to both improve runway performance and improve sustained turn rates in combat.
The Indian Tejas fighter may look like a simple delta at first glance, but a closer look reveals a cranked (double delta) leading edge and movable leading edge control surfaces that perform the same function as canards. Tejas leading edges droop to improve lift for carrier landings. Tejas LE devices increase camber and lift at the front, to lift the nose and reduce the need for down force along the trailing edges.

 

[uk 75]

The USSR could fly an SST from Leningrad to Vladivostok without worrying about noise protesters. I doubt if Cuba would have minded a high speed link to its main ally.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/0c/82/9a0c8291819fdf17d937e4468259d591.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/da/50/d2da507057d5a18511a3116eb420064d.jpg

 

[foiling]

The Myasichshev M-53 was one of the considered passenger aircrafts of the M-52 Bomber. From this source.

Wonderful. Is this book available?

 

[athpilot]

Wonderful. Is this book available?

Yes it is. Please DM ucon.

 

[ThePilotDuckProductions]

There was an article in Kriyla Rodiny in 2002 about the SST developments in the Soviet Union and mentioned the Il-66 and a development designated the Il-72. The translation comes from the Russian Aviation Research Bulletin issue 154 (June 2003).


The schematic shown in the magazine (page 9) is identical to the one in the previous post (above).

Hi! Il-66.
http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art7905.htm
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://testpilot.ru/russia/ilushin/il/66%2Fil66.htm&sandbox=1
"Sketchy study determined the appearance of supersonic passenger aircraft IL-66, its aircraft performance data were to provide transport of 100 people from Moscow to Khabarovsk with a cruising speed of 3000 km / h. Using PCA on this airway provides passengers with a considerable gain in time and represent economically feasible at the time. The aircraft carried out by the wind "duck" scheme to the front "floating" horizontal tail and delta wing. Four turbojet engine housed in the rear fuselage. Airframe was supposed to perform fire-resistant steel alloys.
In March 1960, Ilyushin turned to Deputy Chairman of the USSR Council of Ministers Ustinov with a proposal for the inclusion of IL-66 in experimental construction plan of the State Committee of the aviation industry. May 10, 1960 at the Technical OKB Ilyushin Board reported on the draft of IL-66 and stated that "fifteen years of experience in passenger aircraft and four years of experience on the cruise missile gives us reason to introduce technical aircraft project in the 3rd quarter of 1963 and the beginning of the summer tests in the 2nd half of 1965 ".
Apparently, the results of research in this area, resulting in the OKB-23 V. Myasishev , "settled" only in TsAGI and OKB-156 . Only this can explain such high data that went counter to the process, mastered in Soviet factories. After all, for this project in the country in the early 1960s lacked the necessary resources.
However, the leadership of the State Committee has counted the aviation industry the creation of IL-66 is too challenging and suggested considering the Ilyushin aircraft project at supersonic speed and konctruktsiey of conventional aluminum alloys. February 14, 1962, reported on the technical council Ilyushin OKB basic design SPS data, intended for transportation of 60 passengers at a distance of 4,500 km at a cruising speed of Mach 2.2. However, a large loading EDO works on the aircraft IL-18, IL-38 and construction of prototype IL-62 were not allowed to continue designing the PCA. "

I once tried to convert an existing Il-62 model on Roblox into an Il-66.