USS Long Beach Preliminary Studies

[Pioneer]

I was reading about USS Long Beach (CGN-9).
It stated that she was first laid out to be a smaller frigate, but expanded to a cruiser hull due to the ship being slated for the Regulus nuclear cruise missile and later, 4 launching tubes for the Polaris SLBM!

Does anyone know if there are any drawings / artist works of her in her original frigate configuration?
Also is there any drawings / artist work of her with these four Polaris SLBM's?
Especially artist impressions of Long Beach firing these planned SLBM's

Thanks in advance!!
Pioneer

 

[Antonio]

You should take a look Friedman's "US Cruisers" pg 403 for info about the USS Long Beach origins. there are some scheme drawings but no contemporary artist work on it.

According to the book, the beginning of the CLGN study series (9-January-1956) was a 570 x 55 feet, 8,900 tons ship with two 5-in/54s forward and a Terrier aft. She also has quintuple antisurface-ship torpedo tubes amidships.

It seems the ship was classified a cruiser from the beginning. And the bigger selected design was not influenced by the possible instalation of Regulus and Polaris. The inclusion of that weapons would have meant an even bigger ship.

 

[Antonio]

I have only seen that info about she was first considered a frigate from the wikipedia. I haven't seen it from my books.
The USN refered to its DL category (Destroyer leaders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_destroyer_leaders) also as frigates. (In analogy to the Saling era frigates)

The dimensions and weapons of the very first design for the future USS Long Beach were very similar to the DL category but it was classified as cruiser from the first moment.

Notes:

Ships in the DL class were reclassified to Destroyers or Cruisers in early 70's.

Destroyer Leader definiton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer_leader

 

[Antonio]

from Friedman's book:

the ship was actually built with foundations for 8 Polaris launch tubes

This tubes should had been placed amidships I guess, the same location considered for the Regulus system. There are no drawings in the book showing neither the Regulus nor the Polaris.

But I have found this art work from Björn Landströms "The Ship: an illustrated history". You can see the Regulus instalation here.

 

[Pioneer]

Hay pometablava

Thanks for your help and great snippets of info
Been meaning to reply earlier, but I have been bush the good part of a week



Regards
Pioneer

 

[RyanC]

This might be related to the CGN-9 Early Designs. Don't know.

 

[RyanC]

This is definitely Long Beach with Reggie II.

 

[Howedar]

The latter is interesting in that it shows the huge block superstructure but only conventional rotating radars (seemingly SPS-39 and... it's hard to tell beyond that).

The former (which I christen "Bubble Beach") is just freaking bizarre. No visible search sets to speak of, other than a bloated SPS-10. The RAT amidships (and it is indeed the twin-ready-round RAT) is notable.

 

[Graham1973]

This might be related to the CGN-9 Early Designs. Don't know.

I once read that before they settled on the Long Beach, there were some earlier larger Nuclear Cruiser designs with what were described as four shaft power-plants, I've never been able to run down information on those proposals, but that might be related to those proposals.

Edit: I've been trying to remember where I saw the information above. The book that came to mind was "Conway's All the worlds Warships 1947-1982". I'm going to try and find a copy and confirm this.

 

[Arjen]

Although Long Beach is a substantial ship at over 14,000t, she stands in contrast to much larger nuclear cruisers proposed in the mid-1950s, with four-shaft plants more closely approaching traditional cruiser power.

Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1947-1995

 

[Graham1973]

Although Long Beach is a substantial ship at over 14,000t, she stands in contrast to much larger nuclear cruisers proposed in the mid-1950s, with four-shaft plants more closely approaching traditional cruiser power.

Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1947-1995

Thanks, I'd found that a copy of the 1947-82 version was in the State library but had no chance to check it out. Now, has anyone been able to find out anything about those earlier designs?

 

[Arjen]

You would need some early 'fifties editons of Jane's Fighting Ships, I once held a copy in my hands but I was out of cash at the time.

 

[Grey Havoc]

The former (which I christen "Bubble Beach") is just freaking bizarre. No visible search sets to speak of, other than a bloated SPS-10. The RAT amidships (and it is indeed the twin-ready-round RAT) is notable.

For those members who are unfamilar with this weapon: http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/rat.html

 

[moin1900]

Cruiser of Tommorow
"SALU" nuclear powered guided missile cruiser concept art.
ALL HANDS MAGAZINE
1956 JUNE Page 35
http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/department_arch1956.html

Long Beach with Polaris launcher concept art.
ALL Hands Magazine
1961 MAY PAGE 34
http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/department_arch1961.html

An artist's concept of a Laser Fleet Air Defense Weapon
https://research.archives.gov/id/6386999

 

[Tzoli]

These are all the preliminary design studies I know of which eventually led to the USS Long Beach Nuclear Powered Guided Missile Cruiser. They are from Friedman't US Crusiers books but even the data in this book was not complete as evident by the missing numbering and lettering variants.
Here is the data table:

https://imgur.com/83FalYl

View: https://i.imgur.com/83FalYl.png


And the various design's drawings:
Pre Scheme A:

https://imgur.com/hXZcYwx

View: https://i.imgur.com/hXZcYwx.png


Schemes D and E:

https://imgur.com/Dihg9rc

View: https://i.imgur.com/Dihg9rc.png


Scheme N:

https://imgur.com/69ottI3

View: https://i.imgur.com/69ottI3.png


Scheme O:

https://imgur.com/3t7k8MW

View: https://i.imgur.com/3t7k8MW.png


Schemes J,P and Q:
https://i.imgur.com/jZjGJLa.png

Scheme Z:
https://i.imgur.com/1Bpm1kY.png

About Pre Scheme A what would be that on top of the aft mast that sorta X or 8 shaped radio antennae?

Also desipite her hull was long gone (Or was part of it (the reactor compartment) still floats? ) there are no decent drawing about this vessel done when she was commissioned?

Also it seems the cube shaped bridge superstructure was appeared in the last part of the design phase as these drawings shows octogonal shape with the horizontal SPS-32's on the parallel and perpendicular sides while the vertical SPS-33's on the diagonal sides though at this time there were multiple sizes considered for these radars as some of the drawings show quite narrow vertical diagonal surfaces for them!

 

[isayyo2]

Interesting as always @Tzoli, great find!

 

[Dilandu]

Very interesting! Thank you for the find!

 

[Dilandu]

About Pre Scheme A what would be that on top of the aft mast that sorta X or 8 shaped radio antennae?

Hm. Looks a bit like SK-2 radar dish.


But for 1956, SK-2 was a bit old...

Maybe its artist impression for AN/SPS-8A?

 

[TomS]

About Pre Scheme A what would be that on top of the aft mast that sorta X or 8 shaped radio antennae?

If you mean the very topmost antenna, i think it looks like some version of high-frequency direction finding.

I think Dilandu is talking about the round "antenna" just below and forward of that (a circle with a cross inside), which is just a space reservation in the drawing -- an antenna of some sort would occupy that volume but the details are omitted. It doesn't necessarily reflect the actual shape of the antenna or radome that would sit there, just a sense of the space it would take up.

 

[Tzoli]

The round antennae just below was an SPS-26 I believe as evident on Scheme D and yes I mean the topmost antennae

 

[Dilandu]

I think Dilandu is talking about the round "antenna" just below and forward of that (a circle with a cross inside), which is just a space reservation in the drawing -- an antenna of some sort would occupy that volume but the details are omitted. It doesn't necessarily reflect the actual shape of the antenna or radome that would sit there, just a sense of the space it would take up.

Ah. Sorry, I misunderstood then.

 

[Tzoli]

That radar dome on Scheme E reminds me of the Radio Star Tracker Dome of the Iowa double ended conversion proposals:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Double-Ended-Iowa-class-BBG-Version-1-800142218

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

I imagine from the shape that it's meant to be a representation of a URN-3 TACAN antenna (There is similar antenna on Design D's mainmast). The dielectric fairings covering the antenna used by US Ships during this period have a similar cross-section, whereas the British version of the URN-3 (known as Type 957) has a straight-sided cylindrical fairing.

 

[TomS]

Yep, that's definitely it.

 

[uk 75]

The US kit manufacturer Revell was quick off the mark to issue a plastic kit of Long Beach with beautiful box art. Note the Regulus 2 amidships instead of ASROC.
The German waterline shipmaker HANSA made the same version in metal in 1/1250 scale.

 

[Tzoli]

I think maybe at least two more pre-schemes exists, both without guns, one a double ended Terrier and another a Terrier (Forward) Talos (Aft) version:
Friedman states the single Terrier version was 8.500tons full load a double Terrier again 8.500tons but saying push up so maybe standard displacement? And the Terrier-Talos 8.850tons again probably standard displacement, but I'm not sure, this second 8.500tons could be a typo.
Question can the Pre-Scheme A hull carry two Terrier or one Terrier one Talos magazines?

 

[Tzoli]

On Schemes D and also on Z Friedman writes that the radars atop the octogonal bridge structure are CW (I assume Continuous Wave? ) illuminators. Does anybody know how these should look like? I thought Terriers only required the SPQ-5 or SPG-55 directors and did not require other radars.

Also on Scheme Z for the Regulus Friedman states that the radars required are SPQ-2 which he gives very limited info in this radars book:

Is there any photo or drawing or description how this SPQ-2 looked like?

 

[Tzoli]

Here is my drawing based on the Pre-Scheme A:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/CLGN-Pre-Scheme-A-860040298

The designs had these characteristics:
Dimensions: 173,73m (oa) x 16,76m
Displacement: 8.900tons (Full Load)
Engines: 80.000shp Westinghouse C1W Nuclear Reactors, 2 shafts
Speed: 59km/h (32knots)
Armaments:
2x1 5"/54 Mark 18 DP-Guns,
1x2 RIM-2 Terrier SAM,
2x2 RAT Launchers,
1x5 533mm Torpedo Tubes
2x3 324mm Torpedo Tubes

Sensors:
SPS-10 - Surface-Search Radar
SPS-12 - Air-Search radar
SPS-26 - 3D Air-Search Radar
SPS-53 - Surface-Search/Navigational Radar
2x SPQ-5 - Terrier Illumination/tracking radars
SPG-25 - Gun Director Radar
TACAN - TACtical Air Navigation System

 

[isayyo2]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

 

[Tzoli]

Next is Pre-Scheme B based on Friedman's description of the early double ended Terrier version:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/CLGN-Pre-Scheme-B-860233728

The design had these characteristics:
Dimensions: 173,73m (oa) x 16,76m
Displacement: 8.500tons (standard)
Engines: 80.000shp Westinghouse C1W Nuclear Reactors, 2 shafts
Speed: 59km/h (32knots)
Armaments:
2x2 RIM-2 Terrier SAM,
2x2 RAT Launchers,
1x5 533mm Torpedo Tubes
2x3 324mm Torpedo Tubes

Sensors:
SPS-10 - Surface-Search Radar
SPS-12 - Air-Search Radar
SPS-26 - 3D Air-Search Radar
SPS-53 - Surface-Search/Navigational Radar
4x SPQ-5 - Terrier Illumination/tracking radars
TACAN - TACtical Air Navigation System

 

[TomS]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

Last would be the Knox and Brooke classes, some of which were actually built with a pair of Mk 25 stern tubes for heavyweight (ASW) torpedoes. The tubes were torn out pretty early on in favor of VDS and a lot of ships probably never had them. I've only ever seen one picture of the tubes, on USS Brooke.

 

[isayyo2]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

Last would be the Knox and Brooke classes, some of which were actually built with a pair of Mk 25 stern tubes for heavyweight (ASW) torpedoes. The tubes were torn out pretty early on in favor of VDS and a lot of ships probably never had them. I've only ever seen one picture of the tubes, on USS Brooke.

Ah that's right, I forgot I about those stern tubes

 

[Firefinder]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

Last would be the Knox and Brooke classes, some of which were actually built with a pair of Mk 25 stern tubes for heavyweight (ASW) torpedoes. The tubes were torn out pretty early on in favor of VDS and a lot of ships probably never had them. I've only ever seen one picture of the tubes, on USS Brooke.

Ah that's right, I forgot I about those stern tubes

And dont forget about the Fitted for but not with ones on the California class nuke botes.
They had a room on their stern called the MK48 room, for said torp, up till their decommissioning.

 

[isayyo2]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

Last would be the Knox and Brooke classes, some of which were actually built with a pair of Mk 25 stern tubes for heavyweight (ASW) torpedoes. The tubes were torn out pretty early on in favor of VDS and a lot of ships probably never had them. I've only ever seen one picture of the tubes, on USS Brooke.

Ah that's right, I forgot I about those stern tubes

And dont forget about the Fitted for but not with ones on the California class nuke botes.
They had a room on their stern called the MK48 room, for said torp, up till their decommissioning.

Fascinating. I’ve never heard that before, is it mentioned in Friedman as well?

 

[Tzoli]

Yes but these were 12'75" ASW torpedoes not 18 or 21" Anti ship ones

 

[Firefinder]

The torpedo armament is interesting; probably one the last American surface ships designed with the big tubes?

Last would be the Knox and Brooke classes, some of which were actually built with a pair of Mk 25 stern tubes for heavyweight (ASW) torpedoes. The tubes were torn out pretty early on in favor of VDS and a lot of ships probably never had them. I've only ever seen one picture of the tubes, on USS Brooke.

Ah that's right, I forgot I about those stern tubes

And dont forget about the Fitted for but not with ones on the California class nuke botes.
They had a room on their stern called the MK48 room, for said torp, up till their decommissioning.

Fascinating. I’ve never heard that before, is it mentioned in Friedman as well?

Believe so. Knew a few of the their crew and all were adamant about there being a room known as the Mark 48 room on theirstern. And the Naval Analyst went into depth on it.

Never had the tubes fit AS far as i know, but the space and bracing was there.

Yes but these were 12'75" ASW torpedoes not 18 or 21" Anti ship ones

Nope the California were to have an 21 inch Anti Surface torpedo system in their stern.

The MK48 was to be the new do all torpedo for both Surface and Sub-Surface ships.

The Navy midway through designing it, decided that surface ships are unlikely to ever make a torp run against Surface ships again so dropped the surface launch variant of the MK48. Apparently it was to have ASW ability too.

Which left the ASW tubes as the only torp system for surface ships.

 

[Tzoli]

Yet the Soviets/Russians had/have 533mm mostly fixed tubes on their ships (Kirov, Slava, Kara, Kresta, Udaloy, Sovremenny, Kanin)

 

[TomS]

Yet the Soviets/Russians had/have 533mm mostly fixed tubes on their ships (Kirov, Slava, Kara, Kresta, Udaloy, Sovremenny, Kanin)

Because the Soviets didn't have an effective surface-launched lightweight torpedo until quite late. Also, on some ships, they used the 533mm tubes to launch the same ASW standoff weapons used on submarines.

 

[Tzoli]

Following with Pre-Scheme C the Talos-Terrier version of A (or B)
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/CLGN-Pre-Scheme-C-860423870

The design had these characteristics:
Dimensions: 173,73m (oa) x 16,76m
Displacement: 8.850tons (standard)
Engines: 80.000shp Westinghouse C1W Nuclear Reactors, 2 shafts
Speed: 59km/h (32knots)
Armaments:
1x2 RIM-2 Terrier SAM,
1x2 RIM-8 Talos SAM
2x2 RAT Launchers,
1x5 533mm Torpedo Tubes
2x3 324mm Torpedo Tubes

Sensors:
SPS-10 - Surface-Search Radar
SPS-12 - Air-Search Radar
SPS-26 - 3D Air-Search Radar
SPS-53 - Surface-Search/Navigational Radar
2x SPQ-5 - Terrier Illumination/tracking radars
2x SPG-49 - Talos Illumination/tracking radars
2x SPW-2 - Talos guidance radars
TACAN - TACtical Air Navigation System

 

[Tzoli]

I will soon finish the preliminary scheme E-3 which seems the first to show the SPS-32/33 radar sets.
Question: do I require the SPS-26 3D Air Search Radar?
What about the SPS-10 Surface and SPS-12 Surface/air search radars?