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Author Topic: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987  (Read 14584 times)

Offline starviking

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BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« on: April 14, 2008, 10:30:11 pm »
From Flight International 24th October 1987, a Multirole Capsule for ISS rescue, crew transfer, independent missions, and unmanned microgravity experiments.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1987/1987%20-%202182.html


Offline Archibald

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 12:23:25 am »
I've seen the pic at Astronautix, but the text is (of course) new to me. A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
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Offline starviking

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 12:36:26 am »
I've seen the pic at Astronautix, but the text is (of course) new to me. A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)

Well, at the time I was disheartened by the Hermes cancellation (and I'm a Brit!). However, seeing how the Shuttle is giving way to a capsule (Orion) it really is a pity Her Majesty's Government didn't push this effort... :'(

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Offline PMN1

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 06:41:52 am »
I've seen the pic at Astronautix, but the text is (of course) new to me. A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)

Especially since BAe say A4 could have been used to launch it.

Offline Michel Van

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 07:11:34 am »
A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)

I blame CNES and German government how screw things badly up
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Offline archipeppe

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 07:18:28 am »
A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)

I blame CNES and German government how screw things badly up

It's easy to shoot at the scapegoats after the failure....

Seriously CNES and Germans are to blame, but not too much (especially considering that I'm Italian....).
At that time Hermes seems the top of the line and not so impossible to achieve, when you start such challenging programme you really don't know if you succeed (Americans know it very well, considering the various X30, X33, X38 and so on).

Looking back it is right to say "would be better spend our (litterally) money on less challenging manned space capsule (especially considering that it could be in service right now, free us by Americans and Russians and even Chinese), but in 1981/86 aerospaceplane like Hermes seems to be the most logical choiche.....

Offline Archibald

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 12:05:48 pm »
I've seen the pic at Astronautix, but the text is (of course) new to me. A pity ESA kept on with Hermes (I blame the CNES for that even if I'm a frenchman!)

Especially since BAe say A4 could have been used to launch it.

What was Ariane 44L (the 4*vulcain strap-ons) exact LEO payload ? Rather hard to find on the web for a simple reason : Ariane rockets tend to be  build for GEO orbits (even Ariane V needed mods to launch the 20 tons ATV into LEO).

Even more bizarre, the Ariane 4 still have (IMHO) a better safety record than the Ariane 5, having only 3 failures over 113 flights (around 97%+)
counting the VERY STUPID 1990 accident caused by... well, you know...  ::)

I understand Archipeppe point, but the fact is, 15 years after Hermes cancellation Europe still struggle to have a manned spacecraft.

Btw the 4 m diameter of Bae Capsule is close from ATV own diameter.

Archipeppe considering your gorgeous renderings of spacecrafts, are you up for a Bae Multirole Capsule 3-view ?


« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 12:21:25 pm by Archibald »
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 12:43:34 pm »
Quote
What was Ariane 44L (the 4*vulcain strap-ons) exact LEO payload ?

Astonautix http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/arine44l.htm
LEO Payload: 10,200 kg (22,400 lb). to: 200 km Orbit. at: 5.20 degrees.

Arianespace page - Ariane 4 user manual
http://www.arianespace.com/site/launcher/ariane4_heritage_sub_index.html
LEO Payload: 8987 kg (19,812 lb). to: 200 km circular Orbit. at: 60° degrees.   


i love that rocket, was a good workhorse


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Offline archipeppe

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 12:24:53 am »
Archipeppe considering your gorgeous renderings of spacecrafts, are you up for a Bae Multirole Capsule 3-view ?

Sure!!

I need only some more reference pictures and/or drawings, the only I have is that one enclosed in the first post (I remember that Marcus Lindroos website had some more, not so much anyway, infos...too bad that the site in no more online....), and it is too little to start a "realistic" drawing.

Offline Archibald

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 12:29:41 am »
I tend to forget that rocket payload tend to change because of orbital inclination... (I suppose this is the reason why there's two different payloads here, one for 5° and other for 60°...)

Internet archive has saved part of Lindroos website, but only the Shuttle/ RLV part (Introduction...) maybe they'll salvage the whole thing one day ?
An easier way would be to contact Mr Lindroos, but it seems he has vanished from earth surface since june 2001.
More seriously, maybe Mr Wade could help (as he used Lindroos collections for Astronautix)

I plan to use a side-view of the capsule and graft it onto the ATV profile I've found of the web.
This would give a 28 tons European TKS / Big Gemini - like spacecraft...


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Offline archipeppe

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 12:32:58 am »
I plan to use a side-view of the capsule and graft it onto the ATV profile I've found of the web.
This would give a 28 tons European TKS / Big Gemini - like spacecraft...

If I could manage to do the work (of drawing the BAe capsule), for sure I will also manage to produce a 3 views of a modified ATV topped by the BAe capsule anyway.

In any case I'm also preparing a presentation regarding the outstanding Big Gemini, stay tuned.....  ;)

Offline archipeppe

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 12:37:06 am »
I quote Michel Van about the A4 LL.

I love it too, it's a pity that ESA and Arianespace decided to stop the programme (ok A5 is on the way but.....).

With its payload capability A4 would allows ESA to have a manned spacecraft programme (capsule based) since mid-'90s, if you think it is unlikely stop one moment and think about that Chinese launcher Long March 2F (CZ-2F, is that one used to launch Shenzhou spacecraft) is very similiar to Ariane 4.....

Offline flateric

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 02:50:26 am »
Interesting that Multi-Role capsule had its successor from Bristol University team, Excalibur, it was 2002-2005 timeframe.
Ariane V or Space Shuttle launch, 'hot helicopter' landing (a-la DC-X), Reaction Engines Ltd. Sangrail engine.

Quote
With a 5.6m by 4.5m elliptical base Excalibur
can be mounted on large launch systems such
as Ariane 5. It can also be mounted (at a 45
degree angle) within a 4.5 m payload bay
such as on the Space Shuttle.

Quote
With a crew of three and a mission length
around a week the Excalibur end of life mass
is taken to be 5000 kg. The two internal tanks
can carry 5100 kg of usable propellant after
RCS and UFS propellants are accounted for.
This gives a mission velocity of 2.1 km/s,
which is adequate for all return to Earth
missions including those from lunar orbit.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 03:07:14 am by flateric »
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline archipeppe

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 03:09:11 am »
Many, many thanks Flateric for you kind (and rich) contribution on the matter.

Anyway this is one of the oddest reentry shape I've ever seen......

Offline flateric

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Re: BAe Multirole Capsule 1987
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 03:12:04 am »
Excalibur hiding in the Shuttle orbiter bay
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works