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Offline TinWing

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Aerion SBJ
« on: January 10, 2006, 10:56:24 am »
Unlike most SSBJ (Supersonic Business Jet) proposals this one is based around an existing powerplant, the Pratt & Whitney JT8D.

You might ask:  "Why would a SSBJ concept use the same engine as the out of production McDonnell-Douglas MD-80 series?"

Simply put, the JT8D-200 series was the very last of the low bypass ratio civilian turbofans.  To put the matter of bypass ratio in perspective, the JT8D-219 has a bypass ratio of 1.74:1 and the GE F101-100 in the B-1B Lancer has a 2.01:1 ratio, something of a record for a combat aircraft. 

Modern civilian turbofans typically have a bypass ratio of in the neighborhood 6:1 - a simple fact which made the performance goals stillborn Boeing Sonic Cruiser seem all the more improbable. 

Sources:
http://www.aerioncorp.com
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRAerion.htm

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2006, 01:08:09 pm »
There has been a change in the configuration from a recent AWST article- the T-tail is now gone and it's a more conventional appearing cruciform tail arrangement. There's also been a reprofiling of the nose to address visibility concerns aired by the FAA, but it's not as apparent as the tail redesign.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 05:34:25 pm »
« Last Edit: January 26, 2006, 05:40:35 pm by TinWing »

Offline CammNut

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 08:48:44 pm »
And while I am at it - here is the latest Aerion image. This SSBJ is not a low-boom design. Instead it would slow down to subsonic speed over land to avoid creating a sonic boom. Because it uses supersonic natural laminar flow (hence the unswept, and very thin, wing and tail), supersonic and subsonic drag are about the same, its designers claim. This is unlike conventional supersonic designs, which suffer from high subsonic drag because of the slender, highly swept wing needed for low supersonic drag.

To show how designs evelove as they become more defined and refined, I've attached an image of the original ASSET concept by Reno Aeronautical, the company the holds the patent on the supersonic laminar flow aerodynamics behind the Aerion. Sorry it's so small.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2007, 03:43:22 am »
Quiet Supersonic Transport (QSST) designed by the Skunk Works for Supersonic Aerospace International (SAI
http://www.saiqsst.com/
Nice site!

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Offline CammNut

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2007, 12:47:30 pm »
Just rediscovered these missing links in the Reno-to-ASSET-to-Aerion SSBJ design evolution. The V-tail one comes before the Reno T-tail one above, while the T-tail one comes before the current low-tail Aerion design. The entire T tail - vertical and horizontal - was hinged at its base for trimming.

Offline CammNut

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2007, 09:46:06 am »
Couple of the latest Aerion pics - no reason, just 'cos I have them...

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 02:21:25 pm »
Artist's impression of Aerion supersonic business jet (top).

Three-view drawing of Aerion supersonic business jet (bottom)

Source: Moore, S. Clayton. "Aerion and SAI Compete For Supersonic Supremacy" Airport Journals January 2005.
http://www.airportjournals.com/Display.cfm?varID=0501014&PrintPage=True

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 07:12:38 pm »

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 11:40:02 am »

Quote
Aero-News Network: Does BizAv STILL Have An SSBJ In Its Future?

Among the doldrums that dominate the BizAv sector these days, its hard to get folks to look to the future... and by the time that the economy starts improving, we have a feeling that the industry will have a heckuva job catching up to the potential of a renewed market ready to do business. UNLESS... you happen to be Aerion.

Aerion is an intriguing and forward-thinking company formed for the purpose of developing and commercializing a fundamental breakthrough in supersonic transportation, i.e, a SuperSonic Business Jet. Aerion has already earned patents on several concepts related to supersonic aerodynamics and structures, including patents on its supersonic natural laminar flow wing design.

These folks seem up to the task... Prior to the formation of Aerion, its founders received several DARPA contracts for supersonic laminar flow wing studies, as well as research and test flights. This group also participated in DARPA's Quiet Supersonic Platform Program. A team of closely affiliated firms, including Pratt & Whitney, provide engineering design and analysis support in the following areas: aerodynamics, structures, systems, propulsion, stability and control, and aeroelasticity.

The Aerion jet will be fuel efficient at cruise speeds just below the speed of sound, allowing it to perform short- and long-haul overland missions with the same economies as today's large business jets. Range at high subsonic speed is more than 4500 nm and range at supersonic speeds exceeds 4000 nm. Over certain national or regional corridors, including parts of Canada, Australia and Siberia, the aircraft can fly at unrestricted speeds up to its maximum speed of Mach 1.6. And in other regions governed by ICAO regulations, the aircraft is capable of operating at boomless cruise speeds up to Mach 1.15. The Aerion can cruise efficiently, however, at speeds from .95 to .99 Mach over the continental US, where speeds are limited by regulation to less than Mach.

Copyright 2011, Aero-News Network, Inc., All Rights Reserved.

FMI: www.aerioncorp.com, www.aero-tv.net, www.youtube.com/aerotvnetwork, http://twitter.com/AeroNews
Code: [Select]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA8b_wHCFHo
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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 10:13:02 am »
Perhaps they should have stuck with the V-tail, although I might be a bit biased in that regard.  :)
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Offline Reaper

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 03:56:21 am »
Hi! Are there any news from Aerion?
It appears that there nothing going on at all or they progressing, because you dont hear much!
Does anybody information about the amount of employees they have?

Offline TomS

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 06:40:31 am »
Aerion's latest press release says they're flying a test article under NASA's F-15 this summer.

http://aerioncorp.com/uploads/press/35.pdf
Quote
Aerion prepares for upcoming NASA F-15B supersonic flight tests

Reno, Nevada, April 17, 2012 – Aerion Corporation today released details about its next round
of supersonic test flights, a vital element in the company’s plan to design the world’s first
supersonic business jet (SBJ).

Aerion has designed the next test article that will fly in the centerline position under NASA’s F-
15B aircraft. The last round of tests during the summer of 2010 reached Mach 2.0 and used an
instrumented flat plate to map the high-speed flow field under the F-15B and validate computer
modeling. After analyzing the resulting data, aerodynamic design work for the new test article
began in late 2010, followed by mechanical design in mid-2011. Fabrication of the 40-inch
vertical span by 80-inch chord device is now underway and will be complete by the end of May.
A series of ground checks will be followed by one-hour supersonic test flights at NASA’s
Dryden Flight Research Center in June and/or July, pending aircraft availability.

The new test article will be more representative of the Aerion wing in order to evaluate
supersonic boundary layer transition properties as they relate to manufacturing standards for
surface quality and assembly tolerances, both crucial to future production of the SBJ.

“This year’s planned F-15B test flights of the latest Aerion test article prove our partnership
continues to be mutually beneficial,” said Dr. Richard Tracy, Aerion’s chief technology officer.
“Our work with NASA will further refine future practical applications of aerodynamics for safe
and efficient flight at higher speeds compared to today’s conventional subsonic civil aircraft.”


Offline Triton

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Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 05:04:52 pm »
Artist's impression of Aerion SBJ (Supersonic Business Jet)

Source:
http://www.mojomag.de/2010/02/uber-dem-schall/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 05:08:59 pm by DonaldM »

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 05:12:47 pm »
Specifications

Maximum cruise speed: Mach 1.6
Long-range cruise (supersonic): Mach 1.5
Boomless cruise (supersonic): Mach 1.1 to 1.2
High-speed cruise (subsonic): Mach .99
Long-range cruise (subsonic): Mach .95
Maximum takeoff weight: 90,000 lb
Basic operating weight: 45,100 lb
Maximum fuel: 45,400 lb
Engines: Two PW JT8D-200 series
Thrust: Flat rated to 19,600 lb
Wing area: 1,200 sq ft
Approach speed: 120 kts*
Balanced field length: < 6,000 ft
Landing distance, wet runway: 3,460 ft
Range (NBAA IFR): > 4,000 nm
Ceiling: 51,000 ft

Source:
http://aerioncorp.com/jet#specs

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2012, 05:16:02 pm »
Cabin Comfort

You may be traveling at Mach 1.6, but inside Aerion's supersonic business jet (SBJ), life slows down a bit. A cabin length of 30 feet allows for three seating areas, a full galley and a comfortable lavatory. Its height, 6.2 feet, and width, 6.5 feet, make it comparable to other midsize jets. Arrangements for up to 12 passengers are possible. High-speed travel is yours without sacrificing high-end amenities.

At supersonic speeds, you won't spend many hours here. But they could still be among your most enjoyable.

Source:
http://aerioncorp.com/jet#comfort

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2012, 05:18:06 pm »

Propulsion

You won't see us grounded by another of supersonic flight's greatest obstacles – finding a suitable engine – because ours is already in widespread use. We teamed with Pratt & Whitney to adapt their ubiquitous JT8D-200 series engine, which is de-rated to 19,600 pounds of maximum static thrust for Stage 4 noise compliance. Pratt & Whitney projects initial TBO for these engines to be 3,000 hours.*

The JT8D also meets the latest ICAO standards for nitrogen oxide emissions and noise regulations and will cruise at a maximum altitude of 51,000 feet, placing it in the lowest part of the stratosphere and avoiding cruise in the fragile ozone layer.

*Based on Pratt & Whitney analyses assuming 60 percent supersonic flight time.

Source:
http://aerioncorp.com/jet#propulsion

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 05:19:42 pm »
Airframe Structure

No exotic structural materials or manufacturing techniques are required. The Aerion NLF wing will be constructed of carbon epoxy with a coated metal leading edge for erosion resistance. The fuselage, empennage and nacelles will be a combination of aluminum and composite materials. And the supersonic business jet (SBJ) will leverage fly-by-wire flight control, which provides greater flexibility in systems routing, failure redundancy and service access, as well as reducing maintenance and weight.

While Aerion's NLF wing design is the core technological revolution of the SBJ, we have also obtained patents for fuselage contours, inlets, engine expansion nozzles and other aerodynamic features.

Source:
http://aerioncorp.com/jet#airframe

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2012, 05:21:37 pm »
Global Missions

We realize that the world is moving faster. Much faster. And we know that time is your greatest investment. Whether your flight is completed at subsonic speeds, maximum supersonic cruise or some combination thereof, range is constant and destinations are closer.

Our faster future translates to your faster connections.
From New York, Aerion reaches all of Europe and Brazil. Asia is just one stop away.

New York to Miami. Aerion: 1:30. Subsonic: 2:30.
New York to Los Angeles. Aerion: 4:15. Subsonic: 5:00.
New York to Paris. Aerion: 4:15. Subsonic: 7:15.
New York to Asia. Aerion: 9:30. Subsonic: 14:30.

From Dubai, Aerion reaches all of Europe and most of Asia nonstop. One stop away? The United States.

Dubai to Singapore. Aerion: 4:15. Subsonic: 8:00.
Dubai to Tokyo. Aerion: 7:45. Subsonic: 9:45.
Dubai to London. Aerion: 5:00. Subsonic: 6:45.
Dubai to New York. Aerion: 9:30. Subsonic: 14:30.

Consistent with our competitive commitment, Aerion's operating costs will be equivalent to many of today's large business jets, thus at last and forever overcoming supersonic flight's greatest obstacle.

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 12:10:59 pm »

Quote
Spike Aerospace is not the only company committing itself to offering supersonic flights, however. The Nevada-based company Aerion Corporation has submitted plans for the development of a private jet that could reach speeds of Mach 1.6, potentially carrying its first passengers by the end of the decade. HyperMach Aerospace Ltd, meanwhile, has proposed the development of SonicStar, a jet the company claims would reach Mach 4 (about 2,600mph and approximately twice the speed of Concorde) and could speed from London to Sydney in an afternoon or from New York to London in about an hour. The firm estimates it could enter production in the 2020s.
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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2014, 02:24:45 am »

Now that the Aerion AS2 SSBJ is a trijet, maby they should team up with Dassault.  ;)   :D
Quote

Aerion SSBJ Design Becomes Trijet With Larger Cabin, More Range


EBACE CONVENTION NEWS » 2014
by  CHAD TRAUTVETTER


Aerion is seeking an engine supplier now that it has switched to a trijet configuration for the “AS2” supersonic bizjet.
Aerion is seeking an engine supplier now that it has switched to a trijet configuration for the “AS2” supersonic bizjet.
May 19, 2014, 6:00 PM
Aerion Corp. (Booth 3634) is redesigning its proposed supersonic business jet (SSBJ) with a larger cabin and more range, reflecting feedback from a recent operators survey. The new aircraft–dubbed AS2, for Aerion supersonic second design–has three engines versus two on its now-scrubbed predecessor. It still retains a supersonic natural laminar-flow wing, which it calls “the key enabling technology behind practical and efficient supersonic and high-subsonic flight.”


Despite the configuration changes, which are being formally announced here at EBACE this week, Aerion anticipates that its supersonic business jet will still be certified in 2021. First flight is expected in late 2018 or early 2019, followed by a 24-month certification program.


“The message from many of today’s long-range business jet operators is very clear,” said Aerion CEO Doug Nichols. “They want a supersonic jet sooner rather than later; a cabin comparable in comfort to today’s long-range jets; a range of 5,000 nm or better; and they are willing to pay more than $100 million for such an aircraft. That is the supersonic jet we are now working to deliver.”


Inside, the aircraft’s larger cabin has a cross-section dimension nearly identical to that of the Gulfstream G550, sharing the same 6-foot 2-inch height although the AS2’s width is just one inch narrower, at 7 feet 3 inches. The 30-foot-long cabin, which is 17 feet shorter than the G550’s, will feature a two-lounge layout, galley and both forward and aft lavatories, plus a baggage compartment that is accessible in flight.


Outside, the AS2’s fuselage is 160 feet long, some 25 feet longer than the originally conceived SSBJ, and it has a wingspan of 70 feet.


Maximum takeoff weight is 115,000 pounds, up from the original aircraft’s 90,000 pounds. While the minimum projected range is 4,750 nm, Aerion is aiming for 5,300 nm. This is up from the original SSBJ’s projected 4,000-nm range.


According to Aerion, the AS2’s balanced field length is 7,500 feet at mtow. However, this can be lowered to 6,000 feet at takeoff weights below 100,000 pounds to allow for operations at airports with shorter runways or weight restrictions while retaining a transatlantic range of 4,000 nm. This would permit the AS2 to operate from Teterboro Airport, which has a 100,000-pound mtow restriction, as well as other major business aviation hubs with 5,000- to 6,000-foot runways.


As with the smaller, original Aerion SBJ, the AS2 will have two cruise “sweet spots,” where range and efficiency are at a maximum–one at about Mach 0.95, for efficient cruise where supersonic flight is prohibited; and one at about Mach 1.4. At both speeds, total operating cost will be comparable to current ultra-long-range business jet offerings, Aerion said. The AS2’s maximum speed is Mach 1.6, the same as its predecessor.


Engine Choice


Its trijet configuration yields better runway performance and a lower noise profile, which is “especially important with Stage 5 noise requirements looming,” Nichols told AIN. The company is currently in discussions with “leading engine suppliers” to find the optimum core engine for adaptation to supersonic requirements. The selected engine core will be in the 15,000-pound-thrust range–a list that includes the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW800, GE Passport and Rolls-Royce BR710. Aerion plans to announce the winning engine at the NBAA Convention in October.


The requirement to adapt a current engine core for the AS2 and to structure a joint collaboration among several industrial participants has prompted Aerion to sponsor and self-fund the full-scale development program. “For program participants, we can take the financial risk largely off the table,” said Nichols. “We intend to make this program happen and to maximize our return on investment. By assuming financial sponsorship of the program, we can accelerate commercialization of Aerion’s technology and intellectual property, and make practical and efficient supersonic flight a reality in just a few years.”


While discussions with potential OEM partners continues, Aerion is going forward with the advanced design of the AS2, with detailed design slated to be completed in the middle of next year. It is also continuing testing and recently concluded a series of low-speed wind-tunnel tests at the University of Washington Aeronautical Laboratory that assessed various high-lift flap configurations. Aerion will also do further wind-tunnel tests on other configurations over month or so.


According to Nichols, Aerion plans to conduct another round of natural laminar-flow wing robustness testing on NASA’s F-15B testbed this summer or fall, depending on aircraft availability. To date, Aerion has invested more than $100 million to develop proprietary enabling technologies and optimization design tools to enable development of an SSBJ, it said.


Meanwhile, Aerion has put a pause on new orders for its SSBJ because of the configuration change and the price increase. Even though the price has escalated to more than $100 million, Nichols noted, “This really isn’t more than the $93 million CPI-adjusted price for the original SSBJ, meaning customers get more range and cabin space for a few million more.”


Customers with deposits on the original SSBJ have the option of converting their order to the AS2 or obtaining a refund. Nichols told AIN that the majority of deposit holders already contacted are opting to go with the AS2. “Aerion is absolutely committed to making the supersonic business jet a reality,” said Nichols. “We have every intention of having the first SSBJ to market. We will get there first.”


Aerion AS2—performance objectives and specifications


Speeds:


Maximum operating: 1.6 Mach


Long-range cruise, supersonic: 1.4 Mach


Boomless cruise: 1.1 - 1.2 Mach


High-speed subsonic cruise: 0.99 Mach


Long-range subsonic cruise: 0.95 Mach


Approach: <135 kt (250 kph)


Range:


IFR – 7,500 ft BFL: >5,000 nm (9,260 km)


IFR – 6,000 ft BFL: >4,000 nm (7,408 km)


Weights:


Mtow: 115,000 lb (52,163 kg)


BOW: 49,800 lb (22,588 kg)


Dimensions:


Exterior: Length - 160 ft/ 49m


Height - 26 ft/ 8m


Width/wingspan - 70 ft/ 21m


Wing area - 1,350 sq ft (125 sq m)


Interior:


Height (max) - 6 ft 2 in (1.9 m)


Width (max) - 7 ft 3 in (2.2 m)


Cabin length - 30 ft (9.1m)

Source:  AINonline - Aerion SSBJ Design Becomes Trijet With Larger Cabin, More Range
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Offline hesham

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2014, 06:01:16 am »
Great find my dear Rolf.

Offline dannydale

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2014, 07:52:01 am »
Very nice. I hope this one actually gets built. I'm kinda wondering why noise requirements would make it a three-nacelle ship instead of two like the last one.

Offline dragon72

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2014, 02:22:21 pm »
Very nice. I hope this one actually gets built. I'm kinda wondering why noise requirements would make it a three-nacelle ship instead of two like the last one.


Probably so they can run each engine at lower power during take-off. 3 engines at 70% is most likely quieter than 2 at 100%.

Offline Deino

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2014, 09:38:21 am »
Is that true ???:o Airbus joins the development phase ??

http://www.airliners.de/airbus-entwicklung-ueberschalljet/33671

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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2014, 10:04:54 am »
Via the article found by Deino:

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Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2014, 12:01:05 pm »
"Aerion, Airbus Group to work together on supersonic jet technology"
by Molly McMillin
The Wichita Eagle
09/22/2014 12:46 PM
09/22/2014 5:21 PM

Source:
http://www.kansas.com/news/business/aviation/article2203487.html

Quote

Airbus Group and Aerion, which is developing a multi-million supersonic business jet, will collaborate on the jet’s development and exchange knowledge and capabilities on design and certification.

For Aerion, it’s a major step forward in the advancement of the development and commercialization of its Aerion AS2 supersonic business jet.

“It’s a total game changer,” Brian Barents, Aerion’s vice-chairman, said of the arrangement. “I think we’ve been pretty consistent that the next big step was going to be the establishment of an industrial collaboration and a partner.”

Aerion officials knew it would take a well-established original equipment manufacturer to complete the project, he said.

“We couldn’t be more delighted with the choice of Airbus,” Barents said. “We think that their footprint around the world is clearly going to help us as we develop the airplane.”

Under the agreement, Airbus Group, through its Defence and Space division, will provide technical and certification support.

That will include the assignment of senior engineering staff to Aerion’s organization.

The two groups will work together at Aerion’s facilities in Reno, Nev.

“It puts us solidly on track toward our objective of certifying the world’s first supersonic jet in 2021,” Robert Bass, Aerion’s chairman and principal investor, said in a statement.

It’s too soon to say whether Airbus will be involved in manufacturing the plane, Barents said.

“We still haven’t determined that,” he said.

It’s also too soon to say whether Airbus’ design and engineering site in Wichita will be involved in the project, Barents said.

“We’ll leave that up to Airbus whether the disciplines and the availability are available to us during the time that would be needed,” Barents said. “That would be an Airbus call. Certainly, it’s a valuable resource. I would hope at some point they would be involved.”

Airbus did a thorough job of analyzing Aerion’s design tools that it’s developed over the past several years., Barents said.

Over the longer term, Aerion will provide proprietary technology and assistance to Airbus Group in its high-performance technology development, which include Aerion’s research, proprietary design tools and patented aerodynamic designs, the company said.

“They have exclusive rights to utilize those design tools as they look at developing their product line,” Barents said.

The plan is to certify the plane in 2021 with first delivery in 2022. Flight testing would begin in roughly 2019.

The plane will sell for roughly $110 million.

The cost depends upon which engines will be selected for the plane. Aerion is doing an analysis with three large engine manufacturers.

In May, Aerion announced that it had revamped the design of its supersonic jet to a larger-cabin, three-engine model that can fly farther.

The redesign was made to meet changes in the market, officials say.

A recent market study that assessed customer demand – especially in emerging markets such as Asia – found preferences for a corporate jet that can fly fast enough to break the sound barrier, while providing ample room and greater range.

Aerion significantly widened the cabin’s cross section and increased its range from 4,700 nautical miles to more than 5,000 nautical miles.

In the revamped design, the jet will have two “sweet spots” where range and efficiency are at a maximum, Aerion has said.

One is at about Mach 0.95, or 723 mph, in places where supersonic flight is prohibited.

The other is at a supersonic speed of Mach 1.4, or 1,066 mph. The plane is expected to have a maximum speed of Mach 1.6, or 1,218 mph.

The latest study also confirmed demand for more than 600 units over 20 years.

Reach Molly McMillin at 316-269-6708 or mmcmillin@wichitaeagle.com. Follow her on Twitter: @mmcmillin.


Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2014, 07:21:06 am »
Old Forbes interview regarding the original design:

« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 07:29:24 am by Grey Havoc »
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Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2015, 10:56:15 am »
"Aerion Taking Orders for AS2 Supersonic Bizjet"
By Robert Goyer / Published: May 19, 2015

Source:
http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/jets/aerion-taking-orders-as2-supersonic-bizjet#1EiXhqkmSZqd2lxd.99

Quote
Aerion announced at EBACE that it is taking position orders for its AS2 supersonic bizjet project and announced pricing for the jet, along with details on the sales program.
 
Aerion said that it is strengthening its ties with Airbus in a joint definition phase. The first 50 customers

image: http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png
, Aerion said, will get preferential pricing and other benefits, though it declined to specify what those perks would be.
 
Pricing for those first 50 jets is set at $120 million, a stratospheric figure to be sure but one that might attract a good deal of business. There are a number of jets that cost in excess of $60 million, with strong sales. Gulfstream has already delivered 110 of its G650 ultra-long-range jets.
 
Aerion also announced the addition of industry veteran Ernie Edwards as its new senior vp and chief commercial officer. Most recently, Edwards headed sales at Embraer Business Aircraft.

Offline royabulgaf

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2015, 05:08:46 pm »
I've been reading Air International and it's predecessor since the mid-60s.  I have seen dozens of projects like this, a man, a plan, and a snappy brochure.  The only change is that the brochures have been replaced by snappy websites, and I will bet my mortgage payment that this project, like 99% of the others, will disappear without any metal or carbon fiber being cut.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2015, 04:48:50 am »
I've been reading Air International and it's predecessor since the mid-60s.  I have seen dozens of projects like this, a man, a plan, and a snappy brochure.  The only change is that the brochures have been replaced by snappy websites, and I will bet my mortgage payment that this project, like 99% of the others, will disappear without any metal or carbon fiber being cut.

Sad though it may sound, I agree 100% with you. And if major league names such as Grumman, Gulfstream, Lockheed and others have never managed to turn their supersonic biz jet projects into flyable prototypes (not yet at least), it is unlikely that a startup company with big ideas and no credentials could pull out such a feat.

And even so, they could very well build a prototype, but that doesn't mean there would be a market for it. Think of all these one-off business aircraft greats (both jet and prop) such as the Beech Triumph, the OMAC 300, the Foxjet, the Visionaire Vantage, the Swearingen SJ30, the Eclipse 500, the Adam A700, the list just goes on and on. None were faulty designs or flawed machines. They all could have served their purpose well. Simply they found no market to justify stepping up to production status. Even the Beech Starship, which attained production and was marketed by a respected, well-established and reliable company, had to be discontinued because it cost too much money!

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2015, 08:45:11 am »
Hello!


Aircraft building is a strange business. There many good aircraft, that remains as single prototypes.
And others, looking, even more curious that for the certain reason produced in quantities.
I told, for example, about Piaggio P.180. Unconventional aerodynamic configuration, no too large company - and now we see, how lucky it is!






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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2015, 02:08:52 pm »
I've been reading Air International and it's predecessor since the mid-60s.  I have seen dozens of projects like this, a man, a plan, and a snappy brochure.  The only change is that the brochures have been replaced by snappy websites, and I will bet my mortgage payment that this project, like 99% of the others, will disappear without any metal or carbon fiber being cut.


I agree

Offline Triton

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2015, 05:23:57 pm »
One of the showstopper issues for a supersonic business jet is that the United States and Europe currently ban overland supersonic flight.  Aerion claims that their low-boom AS2 design is quiet, but how will the company satisfy governments that the aircraft is quiet enough so that it will be granted an exemption from these bans?

Offline Sundog

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2015, 05:29:56 pm »
One of the showstopper issues for a supersonic business jet is that the United States and Europe currently ban overland supersonic flight.  Aerion claims that their low-boom AS2 design is quiet, but how will the company satisfy governments that the aircraft is quiet enough so that it will be granted an exemption from these bans?


It's designed to cruise at very high subsonic speed overland (Mach=.95?) and then fly supersonically over water. They would like to be able to fly the entire route at supersonic speeds, but they've taken current laws into account.


Offline TomS

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2015, 06:43:51 am »
The article is about a patent that has nothing to do with the Aerion SBJ.

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2015, 08:07:23 am »
Flexjet signs for 20  SBJs from Aerion:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/nbaa-flexjet-is-first-fleet-customer-for-aerion-419231/

This is a project with unprecedented momentum.

What engine will they pick I wonder...?

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2015, 01:30:56 pm »
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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2015, 12:50:09 pm »
Hopefully they now will pick up the pace!

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2015, 09:49:12 pm »
Hi! You can see AS2 movie in this site.
What is AS1?
Powerplant: 3 × turbofans (low bypass ratio), 16,000 lb s.t. each

http://www.aerionsupersonic.com/
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 11:21:53 pm by blackkite »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2015, 11:50:11 am »
What is AS1?

I don't believe there ever was an "AS1" as such.

The Aerion design started off with a different, twin-jet configuration, which was advertized for a while until they changed to the final trijet one.
I believe the revised design was labeled "AS2" to reflect the fact that it was different and improved, a bit like athe 2.0 version of some software.

For the record, the twinjet project itself didn't originate with Aerion. It started off as the Reno ASSET, which was also studied in V-tail (actually trident tail) configuration at one point. Aerion purchased the program from Reno and developed it from there.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2015, 02:51:21 pm »
Thanks. I imagined that twin engine design is AS1.
Two engine design : Maximum speed=Mach1.8⇒Three engine design : Maximum speed=Mach1.5.?? ???

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,36.30.html

« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:26:19 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2015, 09:00:59 pm »
Hmmm.....I made a table to compare......
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 12:20:11 am by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2015, 12:21:44 am »
Hi!

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2015, 04:47:55 am »
Hmmm.....I made a table to compare......

Gosh! I never realized there was such a huge difference in size! It's truly more than a change of engine number, it's a whole different aircraft.
No wonder they had to indicate the change through a new designation... Thanks blackkite for your efforts.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2015, 06:28:22 am »
Hi! Previous little strange shape non t-tail design.

Supersonic Quetzalcoatlus northropi . ;)
Of course naming northropi was taken from Jack Northrop.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 06:22:46 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2015, 06:56:15 am »
The last design with the horizontal stabilizer in the jet stream is simply idiotic... It is literally the starfighter but then adapted..

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2015, 07:54:52 am »
Oh! TU Delft AE student. :D
How do you think about this project?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 07:57:54 am by blackkite »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2015, 01:03:45 pm »
I thinks it is a cool idea and I can see it flying if the company can get enough funding to get through the certification process.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2015, 02:25:24 pm »
Capacity and range of current 3 engine design is almost same as previous 2 engine design, but aircraft size,required engine thrust and cost increase very much and crusind speed decrease.Why?
Boomless speed is only mavh1.2. In addition, engine is not decided still now.
I imagine that drag and sonic boom of this design concept is not so small compared with initial anticipated value. This design is in a pinch?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 05:51:21 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2015, 02:59:18 pm »
Haha I'm only a second years student, but I'll give it a go ;) So The story is that the engines must be smaller but due to the fuselage change in the rear and overall, due to so called 'area ruling', the decrease of efficiency will be made up for with the increase in overall internal volume (And so it can carry more fuel). And yeah the boom helps a lot because it breaks the shock waves in front of the jet decreasing the drag a lot. The drag at Mach 1.4 or 1.5 is a lot higher that of Mach 1.2, since drag increases squared to the speed. If you would leave the boom out and keep the same basic geometry and therefore same drag coefficient, there would act a 1.36 times as big drag force on the jet at mach 1.4 than at mach 1.2. That is a lot to be honest. So yeah the sonic boom is quite essential in this design. If you can increase the range with the boom an 19 percent and fly 17 percent faster, that is quite big achievement.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2015, 05:47:25 pm »
Hmmm....Thanks a lot for professional opinion. :D
I imagine that (1.4×1.4)/(1.2×1.2)=1.36

I can't understand this part.
"If you can increase the range with the boom an 19 percent and fly 17 percent faster, that is quite big achievement. "
Please explain me.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 11:41:13 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2015, 02:26:20 am »
I got that data from analysing a figure of the aerion site.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2015, 04:45:30 am »
Anyway we strongly hope the early realization of this quiet supersonic cruising aircraft very much.
Hip-Hip-Hooray Aerion!! :)
So this topic must be moved to aerospace section. ;)

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-11-17/flexjet-boosts-supersonic-bizjet-plan-aerion-as2-order
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:10:51 am by blackkite »

Offline sferrin

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2015, 05:59:24 am »
I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff.  :o
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Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2015, 06:13:21 am »
I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff.  :o
Oh AS2 need BLCS same as F-104? Is this one of the reason why AS2 needs one more engines?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 11:37:18 pm by blackkite »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2015, 10:40:04 am »
I wonder if they'll have to use the Edwards dry lake bed for takeoff.  :o
Oh AS2 need BLCS same as F-104? Is this one of the reason why AS2 needs one more engines?

Here's an article on the redesign:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2014-05-19/aerion-ssbj-design-becomes-trijet-larger-cabin-more-range

Changes were led by discussions with customers - they wanted larger cabin, longer range and they wanted it sooner.  As for the tri-jet layout,

Its trijet configuration yields better runway performance and a lower noise profile, which is “especially important with Stage 5 noise requirements looming,”
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Offline blackkite

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2015, 02:55:12 pm »
Thanks a lot.
Maximum speed : Mach 1.5 and 1.6, which is the correct value?

"The selected engine core will be in the 15,000-pound-thrust range–a list that includes the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW800, GE Passport and Rolls-Royce BR710. Aerion plans to announce the winning engine at the NBAA Convention in October."

Already selected?

"Aerion is going forward with the advanced design of the AS2, with detailed design slated to be completed in the middle of next year. It is also continuing testing and recently concluded a series of low-speed wind-tunnel tests at the University of Washington Aeronautical Laboratory that assessed various high-lift flap configurations. "

http://www.pw800.com/en/pw800/
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 06:10:56 pm by blackkite »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2015, 03:08:01 pm »
Anyway we strongly hope the early realization of this quiet supersonic cruising aircraft very much.
Hip-Hip-Hooray Aerion!! :)
So this topic must be moved to aerospace section. ;)

Until some amount of hardware starts being produced, I personally deem it wise to just leave it where it is now!!

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2017, 05:43:58 pm »
Aerion, Lockheed Plan AS2 SSBJ Announcement on Friday
by Chad Trautvetter

December 13, 2017, 10:54 AM


Aerion Corp. and Lockheed Martin today announced they will hold a joint press conference on Friday
in Washington, D.C., along with a GE Aviation executive, to discuss their plans for "exploring the joint development"
of the Aerion AS2 supersonic business jet (SSBJ). “Technologies have matured to the extent we plan to
introduce a renaissance in supersonic flight, beginning with business aviation, due to continuing advances in
performance, efficiency, environmental responsibility and affordability,” the companies said.

Reno, Nevada-based Aerion would not disclose the exact nature of the announcement. Curiously missing from the media
advisory is any mention of Airbus, which forged a partnership with Aerion in September 2014 that
involved an exchange of knowledge and capabilities in design, manufacturing and certification. Since then,
speculation has been that Airbus would eventually become the production partner for the AS2.

Aerion’s publicly known collaboration with GE Aviation has been ongoing since May, when it selected GE
as the engine provider for the AS2’s powerplant. Two months ago, veteran business aviation executive Brian Barents
was promoted as executive chairman of Aerion—a move seen as the next step in bringing its Mach 1.6 business
jet to market. “This strengthens the capability of the Aerion organization by elevating a singularly prominent
industry veteran to further relationships with key decision makers at OEMs, tier-one suppliers and other critical
constituencies,” Aerion chairman Robert Bass said in October. Bass will also be present at Friday's conference.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2017-12-13/aerion-lockheed-plan-as2-ssbj-announcement-friday


Offline LowObservable

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2017, 02:29:42 pm »
Would you put your CEO on something that says Lockheed on the side and looks like an F-104?

Offline Foo Fighter

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2017, 07:50:00 am »
You know, there could be a use in there somewhere.......

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2017, 10:59:48 am »
Supersonic business jets are really flying Bugatti Veyrons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

They are very fast, insanely expensive millionaire toys, and in the end, essentially pointless. Barely a 300 aircrafts market, with 5 competitors so far (there will be blood).

Things didn't really changed since 1999 when Dassault briefly studied their SSBJ. The market is stuck at 300 aircrafts (best case) the engines remain the hardest hurdle, if new, they are extremely expensive (especially for 300 aircrafts) if derived from military engines, reliability is bad (think Formula 1 engines, exciting but very short life) while Airbus or Boeing turbofans are stuck at subsonic, and oversized.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 12:45:50 am by Archibald »
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Offline Sundog

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2017, 06:21:30 pm »
I guess I'm in the minority, as I like the latest version of the Aerion, compared to the original or intermediate design. I would like to know why they moved the wing up and the front engines below it? I'm thinking weight, since you can carry the wing structure across the top of the fuselage, but now the mlg loads have to be carried by the fuselage. Aerodynamically, it might be to maintain good airflow over the top of the wing, since it's supposed to be a laminar design.

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2017, 05:31:07 pm »
Would you put your CEO on something that says Lockheed on the side and looks like an F-104?
Yes, especially if it were a Lockheed executive.

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2018, 12:23:03 pm »
Aerion eyes billionaire market for AS2 as it awaits GE study

Quote
Aerion estimates that it will be able to launch the AS2 supersonic business jet in 18 to 24 months, as it awaits the results of an engine study being conducted by General Electric.

Quote
He admits that while the type is a niche aircraft, aimed at individuals with $120 million to spare, the number of billionaires in the world is rising. Aerion estimates that there are 3,600 billionaires in the world today, and this number is growing at 8% a year.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aerion-eyes-billionaire-market-for-as2-as-it-awaits-449554/
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 12:26:22 pm by Flyaway »

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2018, 08:34:16 pm »
Expanding a little more on the information cited in Flyaway's most recent post, it looks like it is "back to the future" for the CFM56 and the Aerion AS2 SBJ. Of course, the core of the CFM56 is derived from the General Electric F101 engine that was originally designed to propel the Rockwell B-1A bomber at supersonic speeds. Now a derivative of the "core" of the CFM56 is to power the Aerion at Mach 1.4. IF all goes to plan...

http://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/aerion-closes-supersonic-as2-program-launch
Quote
Aviation Week & Space Technology - "Aerion Closes In On Supersonic AS2 Program Launch" - by Guy Norris - July 3, 2018

LOS ANGELES—Supersonic business jet developer Aerion says it remains on track to launch the Mach 1.4 AS2 within the next few months.
Aerion also said it is targeting a transatlantic flight from New York to London in October 2023 to mark the 20th anniversary of the retirement of the Anglo-French Concorde.

“We are finalizing the trades on the aircraft so we can launch this year,” Aerion AS2 program manager Mike Hinderberger says. “The plan is two years from now to have preliminary design review (PDR) and first flight in 2023.” Updating progress on the long-running development effort at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Aviation 2018 forum in Atlanta, he adds that the return to supersonic travel has “been a long time coming and it is about time.”
. . .
The AS2 will be powered by three 18,000-lb. thrust General Electric engines based on the core of the CFM56 turbofan. Describing the search for the right engine as a “huge challenge” for the program, Hinderberger says “we are finalizing the specifications right now. The engine has been very, very difficult. We scoured the industry but are now adapting an existing core.”

For the AS2, GE is adding a smaller fan, thought to be 52 in. in diameter, and a new booster and low-pressure turbine to the baseline eight-stage, high-pressure compressor and single-stage turbine of the CFM56 core. “We need a relatively big core, and before selecting GE we worked with all the major engine makers, and there are only so many cores out there you can use,” Hinderberger says. “On top of that, with regulations for landing and takeoff noise and trying to drive Stage 5 requirements, it is very difficult, and that’s what we have been focused on.”
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 08:37:02 pm by Boxman »

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2018, 12:50:00 pm »
The aerion SSBJ will fly as soon as
- NASA will launch JWST
- Roscosmos will launch their MLM module
- Mars sample return will get funded  :(
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Offline Flyaway

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2018, 12:59:12 pm »
The aerion SSBJ will fly as soon as
- NASA will launch JWST
- Roscosmos will launch their MLM module
- Mars sample return will get funded  :(

The first example isn’t relevant as the JWST will fly & fairly probably in 2021.

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2018, 03:30:23 pm »
You have to understand that any tech startup need to reach its basic promised goal before standing down (liability and reputation). A 120M$ Mach1.4 airframe is just the new Concorde...


Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2018, 10:20:13 pm »
It was to be launched in 2007, not 2021. Aerion SSBJ has been in the news for more than a decade, too.
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Offline Flyaway

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2018, 01:08:16 pm »
Aerion reveals timeline for supersonic test flight

Quote
Supersonic business aviation broke a crucial barrier at NBAA today with Aerion’s chief executive Tom Vice laying down a firm timeline for first flight with a new engine variant from GE and what was described as a “revolutionary” new cockpit design with Honeywell for the world’s first faster-than-sound business jet.

“We’re on track to fly in June 2023, and before that year is out we will cross the Atlantic at supersonic speed – the first supersonic crossing since the Concorde’s retirement 20 years earlier,” Vice said at a press conference today.

Offline TomS

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2018, 01:31:49 pm »
Short video on the Affinity supersonic engine from GE.



Says it uses "the world's most popular core."  CFM56, then?  Can GE actually pull that core out and use it in a non-CFM joint venture design?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 05:13:16 am by TomS »

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2018, 03:54:49 pm »

Quote
David Richardson, Skunk Works’ director of air vehicle design, said that the finalization of the engine specs allows for Skunk Works to move on from conceptual work to developing a prelimary design, and he sees no major technical hurdles ahead. “There are no showstoppers, there are no technologies that have to be invented for us to get to where we need to be to make this airplane happen.”

[...]

Given the small number of aircraft envisioned by Aerion, GE Aviation isn’t going ahead with the project just for that company alone. “We don’t view this as one application,” Mottier [(GE)] said


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2018/10/15/ge-reveals-engine-that-could-make-aerions-ambitious-supersonic-business-jet-take-flight/#583f03d21a50
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 03:57:45 pm by TomcatViP »

Offline NUSNA_Moebius

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2018, 07:14:17 pm »
That bypass is huge for something expected to be supersonic.  Can the special mixing nozzle somehow be adding energy to the bypass flow via entrainment of some sorts?  Maybe there is a variable bypass system GE is keeping hush hush, or the double fan stage actually is producing the bypass air velocities needed to deliver supersonic achieving thrust, which may require some advanced convergent shaping.  The use of a carbon fibre outer casing might be a clue to the kinds of pressures (or technically lack there of taking Bernoulli into account) it's expected to endure with two powerful fan stages driving such an insane amount of bypass air, at supersonic RPMs like some high bypass turbofans do at takeoff power.  The noise is of course contained within the casing.

I think the secret is the bypass shoving air down fast enough (read: fast) so that the hot core mixing can keep it energized enough to maintain fast mixed flows.  It explains the special core exhaust nozzle shaping.  Just look at how deep the exhaust grooves get, almost touching the nozzle cone.  What I assume is the slower bypass air flowing along the core casing is being given the most entrenchment into the exhaust so it's given the most exhaust energy.  The top of the nozzle tips almost look like they're trying to keep the outer bypass flow from mixing too much, or it could be for efficient bypass flow for subsonic flight.

Too bad GE will probably keep it secret for the meantime.  But it's quite 'purdy  B)

Offline TomS

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2018, 06:42:19 am »
More details from AvLeak:

http://aviationweek.com/nbaa-2018/ge-shows-affinity-supersonics

Quote
The Affinity is configured with a two-stage fan, a nine-stage HP compressor, a single-stage HP turbine and a two-stage low-pressure turbine. Distinguished externally by an extended, low-drag spinner and a set of fixed inlet guide vanes with movable flaps, the low-pressure system comprises two stages of wide-chord, integrally bladed – or blisked – titanium fan blades.

The aft end of the engine incorporates a sophisticated exhaust mixer resembling the ceramic matrix composite-made design used in GE’s Passport. The annular combustor is designed for supercruising (the term describes sustained supersonic performance without afterburner), while the HP turbine and stator are protected by an advanced thermal barrier coating. To reduce cross-sectional area, the engine is contained in a slimline carbon-fiber casing.

http://aviationweek.com/nbaa-2018/why-ge-s-affinity-supersonic-enabler

Quote
While further details are scant, the variable-nozzle design is believed to be centered on an external-expanding, or plug, nozzle which consists of a central axi-symmetric plug that translates fore and aft, depending on the phase of flight. The plug sits in the freely expanding supersonic jet and replaces more usual designs, such as convergent-divergent nozzle, as a means of containing the expansion.

I'm not enough of an aero-engine geek to parse this well, but hopefully it makes sense to someone here who can break it down for the laymen.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:00:06 am by TomS »

Offline Arjen

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2018, 07:19:23 am »
Plug nozzle in Jumo 004:


Offline NUSNA_Moebius

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2018, 08:17:51 am »

http://aviationweek.com/nbaa-2018/why-ge-s-affinity-supersonic-enabler

Quote
While further details are scant, the variable-nozzle design is believed to be centered on an external-expanding, or plug, nozzle which consists of a central axi-symmetric plug that translates fore and aft, depending on the phase of flight. The plug sits in the freely expanding supersonic jet and replaces more usual designs, such as convergent-divergent nozzle, as a means of containing the expansion.

I'm not enough of an aero-engine geek to parse this well, but hopefully it makes sense to someone here who can break it down for the laymen.

Judging by the pictures of the engine without the extension:



vs with........



........there indeed is core and bypass intermixing before it hits the exhaust nozzle + plug.  I think I'll just call it the Zweibel like the Germans did!  Though of course previous plugs were essentially part of the engine central assembly and the addition of afterburners made integrating such a thing difficult.  Hence convergent divergent nozzles becoming the standard, but I'm somewhat surprised Zweibel nozzles didn't really catch on for non-afterburning engines.

It's only too bad there is going to be a logical limit in speed this engine can deliver, but it provides the subsonic efficiency low bypass types cannot.  I wonder if this engine would suit Boom Technologies' needs as they are targeting Mach 2.2, not 1.4.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 08:35:16 am by NUSNA_Moebius »

Offline Trident

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Offline Racer

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2018, 02:29:10 pm »
The Affinity reminds me very much of GE F101 without afterburner.

Offline djfawcett

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2018, 02:48:12 pm »
It should, the Affinity is basically the same core as the F101 with a different fan setup.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2018, 03:27:18 am »
Ha ! And General Electric F101 core was the basis of the... CFM56, in 1974 ! This caused seemingly endless troubles when the U.S military put pressure on Nixon and Kissinger and they blocked technology transfers to SNECMA. Until Pompidou met Nixon in may 1973 and banged his fist on the table.

So it makes some sense to start from CFM56 - and move back toward the F101 core.

Except that, Aerion now has to assume the cost burden of funding a new engine for its project. This sunk Dassault SSBJ back in 1998, when the M88 core proved unowrkable into a civilian engine. Think Ferrari V-12s for Formula One and road cars - they are essentially separated developments.

So it essentially boils down to finding the best compromise between a CFM56 and a F101. Clever reasonning from both GE and Aerion, let's see if they can pull it out.

...and by the way, I've been ninja'd by TomS over the CFM56 connection.  :D
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 03:32:18 am by Archibald »
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Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #88 on: November 03, 2018, 10:40:52 am »
Only a casual glance at Wikipedia show the severe limitations of both AS2 and Affinity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_Affinity 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerion_AS2

Noise, speed, range, fuel consumption... all conflict with each others. Hard, very hard tradeoffs. I really wonder if they can pull it out. Technically, yes. Commercially ? I have doubts.

For example, mach 1.2 to mach 1.4 top speed - will it really makes a difference big enough with a mach 0.92 Cessna Citation ? Can't help thinking about Boeing Sonic Cruiser. Speed really didn't paid with this one.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 10:43:14 am by Archibald »
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #89 on: November 03, 2018, 12:49:09 pm »
For example, mach 1.2 to mach 1.4 top speed - will it really makes a difference big enough with a mach 0.92 Cessna Citation ?
Cost wise, being able to fly from NY to London and back in a single day will do the trick. Unless Boom of course succeed in a similar  time frame.

Offline Aeroengineer1

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #90 on: November 03, 2018, 11:06:02 pm »
Often times, things succeed because it is not only the right technology, but also at the right time.  Sonic Cruiser was an example of this.  It had the tech, but then 9/11 happened, and many, many things changed.  In the case of Aerion, they may be able to make it work.  I am not too worried about the engine tech.  This is essentially a derivative engine.  Airframe integration will be the harder part of it. 

As for if Mach .92 vs Mach 1.4 will make a difference, well you will get there 40-50% faster.  Heck when we drive on the road, we are content to do 10-15% faster.  This essentially means that a person can leave the East Coast of the US, and be in London in about 4-4.5 hours vs the typical 7 hours.  It is now possible to do the flight, with a couple of hours of meetings, then return in the same day, and only have a 12-14 hour day.  This can be done, vs an 18-20 hour day which is less likely.  Admittedly, the market is going to be small, but it will be there.  The bigger question is if it is financially viable.

Offline Trident

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #91 on: November 04, 2018, 01:38:17 pm »
... and lowering ambition to a Mach 1.4 top speed takes care of the airframe integration challenge to some extent, because they get away with fixed normal shock intakes.

Offline Sundog

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #92 on: November 04, 2018, 02:03:10 pm »
... and lowering ambition to a Mach 1.4 top speed takes care of the airframe integration challenge to some extent, because they get away with fixed normal shock intakes.

The Aerion does have fixed inlets, but they aren't normal shocks, they're actually swept, so they are 2D shocks, which makes them more efficient. The real savings in terms of keeping the speed in the mid Mach number region, between one and two, is in materials. They don't require exotic materials to handle thermal loads.

Offline Trident

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #93 on: November 04, 2018, 03:04:57 pm »
The Aerion does have fixed inlets, but they aren't normal shocks, they're actually swept, so they are 2D shocks, which makes them more efficient. The real savings in terms of keeping the speed in the mid Mach number region, between one and two, is in materials. They don't require exotic materials to handle thermal loads.

While the cowl is swept, cross section is round, so I'm having some trouble working out how an oblique shock is supposed to form without a conical centerbody? At these low Mach numbers the ramp/cone angle would also have to be extremely shallow (<9.5° wedge) which may conflict with the relatively blunt lip radius seen in the CGI pictures. In this Mach range you seem to get a normal shock if you so much as look at the flow the wrong way, and the total pressure recovery difference between a 5° wedge with oblique+normal shock and a normal shock is only ~1.5% (M=1.4, below this the difference would be even less) anyhow.

I suspect the sweep may be more related to high AoA take-off/landing conditions (and possibly noise, for the inverse sweep intake on the centerline engine). Materials is a good point though!

Offline fredymac

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #94 on: November 08, 2018, 05:38:58 am »
Some details on the engine.


Offline Flyaway

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2019, 12:50:47 pm »
Boeing to help Aerion develop AS2 supersonic jet

Quote
Boeing has become the latest – and biggest – aerospace company to partner with supersonic business jet developer Aerion.

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2019, 03:14:22 pm »
You have to give the guys some credit for forming partnerships with Airbus, LockMart, GE and then Boeing before they cut metal.

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2019, 04:08:25 pm »
Except that LM, Boeing and GE came to finalize the design where Airbus jumped out having achieved not much (at least, not the propulsion solution, neither advanced anything around the Laminar wing and not conducted any system integration)...

I wonder if Boeing is not there to provide its expertise in designing large and complex fuselage sections at low cost.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #98 on: February 06, 2019, 12:17:44 am »
FINALIZE the design? Aerion and its predecessor have been at it for decades now, who knows when this will take to the air? If ever?

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2019, 09:33:27 am »
I have to admit the use of an  assertive form was a big step into the unknown.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #100 on: February 06, 2019, 10:35:32 am »
Does assertive apply to Aerion's design or to your use of language? Honest question.

Offline TomcatViP

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Re: Aerion SBJ
« Reply #101 on: February 06, 2019, 10:42:27 am »
 :P   :o ::) ;D