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Author Topic: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies  (Read 24504 times)

Offline bobbymike

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2014, 09:09:38 pm »
Ransom - yes, Long Range Stand-Off. And if we ever get a hypersonic missile, the B-52 will be a carrier for that too. Indeed, speaking of hypersonic missiles....


That's what I'm talking about: old skool hypersonics.  And note: no air breathing malarkey besides the TF33s. 

That is an awesome picture of the B-52 and Skybolt's. I really have trouble understanding the thinking of the fixation on air breathing, yes I 'get it', but why not have developed and deployable tech like solid rockets or ASALM (ASALM is air breathing but tested to work) type systems while we continue with hypersonic scramjet air breathing research?

In the Prompt Global Strike thread, if I recall, I posted a comment from an USAF General saying we could have very fast missiles now while we develop air breathing hypersonics, well do it!!  :o
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 07:15:53 am by bobbymike »
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Offline Sundog

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2014, 11:04:02 am »
In the Prompt Global Strike thread, if I recall, I posted a comment from an USAF General saying we could have very fast missiles now while we develop air breathing hypersonics, well do it!!  :o


We've had very fast operational missiles before; Pershing II's. Just saying, though I guess those would be considered "regional" and not "global."

Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 11:42:32 am »
Some re-engining and Skybolt love from Bill S. in AW&ST:


http://aviationweek.com/defense/opinion-bumbling-caused-b-52-reengining-delay

Offline Boxman

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 01:17:37 pm »
Some re-engining and Skybolt love from Bill S. in AW&ST:


http://aviationweek.com/defense/opinion-bumbling-caused-b-52-reengining-delay
I'd be curious to know what, if any, contribution the engineering and design work for the eight-engine/four twin-nacelle TF34 configuration originally envisioned for the Boeing E-3 Sentry would play in such a re-engining for the remaining B-52s.

Offline bobbymike

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Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline Rhinocrates

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 06:00:24 pm »
I remember years ago reading a spoof article in Smithsonian Air and Space, I think, that proposed a novel modification of the B-52.  What you is take several B-52s, cobble them together into a gigantic multi-fuselage monster and the radar reflection will be so ginormously huge, any enemy would be instantly terrified into submission.  Moreover, space for crew amenities would benefit, allowing a bowling alley and an olympic-length swimming pool.
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Offline Mr London 24/7

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2015, 04:38:27 am »
The most recent RFI said eight engines. The CF34-10 is about the right size.


It's interesting what Clarke said, since Harencak said a month or so ago that it was dead.


Adding to the confusion on a B-52 Re-engine program, transcript of an AFA Huessy Breakfast Series talk from April 21, 2015 with Lt. Gen Stephen Wilson, Commander, USAF Global Strike Command:


Quote
MR. BRIAN BRADLEY: General, Brian Bradley, Nuclear Security and Deterrence Monitor. Regarding the possible B-52 re-engineing, we’ve heard that Pratt PW2000 engine mentioned as a possible replacement, with the possibility of a cut-down from eight engines to four engines. Can you talk about whether there is any favored engine type or number of engines and whether that program is moving forward?

GEN. WILSON: In the discussions we’ve had, initial indications make it look like an eight engine variant is better than a four engine variant. I have to do less modification to other parts of the B-52 with keeping an eight engine variant. So we are moving forward. We’ve got our team. Our team is working with AFMC. They’re working with the SPO. They’re working with Boeing. They’re working with SAF/IE on how do we do this. And for those that I’ve talked to about this, there’s both to me an operational piece and a money piece to this. As you’re all aware, our engines on the B-52 were designed in the 1950s, and they’ve been flying on that airplane since the early ‘60s. And engine technology has gone leaps and bounds in the last 55 years. Today, almost every industry engine partner has come forward and said they can give us about a 35 percent more fuel efficient engine. What that means is I can get about 35 percent more range out of a B-52, which is already substantial. That also means I can use about a third less tankers, and they can be repurposed to do other things in fill a need that we have for tankers. We also think that maintaining a 1950s era engine takes a lot of people and a lot of money, and we’re going to continue to fly the B-52 for the next 25 years. So I think there’s an operational case and I think there’s a business case, and we’re trying to get with folks on how we would do that in a public-private partnership to move forward on that.

MR. BRADLEY: Is there any expected date for an RFP?

GEN. WILSON: We think we’ll have some data to be able to go forward this summer.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 04:41:29 am by Mr London 24/7 »

Offline bobbymike

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2015, 11:25:39 pm »
Bomb bay view on a bombing run pretty neat. Love the blog post title, "That'll BUFF Right Out"  :D

http://weaponsman.com/?p=25156
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2015, 04:40:34 pm »
From Inside Defense

Air Force Developing Funding Options For New B-52 Engine

The Air Force is devising a funding strategy to replace its decades-old B-52 engine with a more energy-efficient alternative, and expects the plan will serve as a case study for future capital improvement projects that are often derailed because they require significant upfront investment
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline Triton

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2015, 04:44:54 pm »
"PARIS: P&W developing upgrade package for B-52 engine"
15 June, 2015 BY: Stephen Trimble Paris

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/paris-pampw-developing-upgrade-package-for-b-52-engine-413485/

Quote
Pratt & Whitney is developing a proposal for a package of performance upgrades for the existing Boeing B-52 engine after the US Air Force again postponed a plan to replace the venerable bomber’s 60-year old TF33 engine.

Several four-engined solutions have been evaluated by the USAF to replace the eight TF33s on board each B-52H.

But the four-engined aircraft may not have enough rudder authority to counter the adverse yaw generated by an outboard engine-out scenario, says P&W military engines president Bennett Croswell.

So P&W proposed a re-engined B-52s with eight new turbofan engines, but the USAF instead decided to postpone the programme, he says.

The TF33 was derived from the original P&W JT3 turbojet engine that drove the first generation of jet-powered Amercian airliners.

P&W is developing an upgrade package to improve the fuel and maintenance performance for the TF33 through the end of its service life. The USAF currently plans to operate the B-52 fleet to at least 2060.

Offline sferrin

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2015, 04:47:42 pm »
From Inside Defense

Air Force Developing Funding Options For New B-52 Engine

The Air Force is devising a funding strategy to replace its decades-old B-52 engine with a more energy-efficient alternative, and expects the plan will serve as a case study for future capital improvement projects that are often derailed because they require significant upfront investment

One wonders how much money they'd have already saved if they'd done this 20 years ago.
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Offline Triton

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2015, 04:57:19 pm »
"USAF Looking at B-52 Engine Options"
By Aaron Mehta 5:31 p.m. EDT September 10, 2015

Source:
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/2015/02/12/b52-engine-private-public-partnership/23185827/

Quote
WASHINGTON — The US Air Force is keeping an eye on options to re-engine its B-52 bombers, including the creation of a public-private partnership with an industry supplier, a top service official said.

Lt. Gen. Mike Holmes, deputy chief of staff for Strategic Plans and Requirements, told reporters during a Feb. 6 event that the service is looking to get "creative" on potential power plant replacements for the aging bomber fleet. Each B-52 flies on eight Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-3/103 turbofan engines, an old and inefficient design produced between late 1950s and 1980s.

"To go out and buy new engines for the B-52, you'd have a really hard time fitting that into our program," Holmes acknowledged. "But that's why we're interested in a public-private partnership, which would be a different way to amortize those engines over time and pay for them in the savings that they actually generate, instead of paying for them out of savings that you hope for."

The idea would allow the service to get new engines onboard without breaking the budget. However, as Holmes noted, non-budgetary hurdles must be crossed before such an agreement could be put into place.

"There are contractor proposals to do some public-private partnerships, kind of creative ways, to get new engines on the airplane," Holmes said. "We have to work through policy and legal and legislative hurdles to be able to do that.

"The idea is in a public-private partnership, somebody funds the engine and then we pay them back over time out of the fuel savings, which are generated out of the new engines," he continued. "Our government has a way to do that with [military construction] facilities. We don't have a way to do that with airplanes, and we are exploring whether there are alternative ways that would let us do that."

In October, Global Strike Command chief Lt. Gen. Stephen Wilson told reporters he had people "looking at" installing new engines on the bomber fleet, which is expected to operate until 2040.

"Look at what the airline industry is doing — they're all re-engining," Wilson said at the time. "Why? Because it saves you a lot of money. If there is a commercially available engine which can give a 25-30 percent increase in either range or loiter, you have my attention."

Offline Triton

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2015, 05:12:37 pm »
Boeing Frontiers magazine April 2004.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2015, 05:22:22 pm »
Boeing Frontiers magazine April 2004.

Has there been any estimates of range/payload with new engines?
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline sferrin

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Re: B-52 Re-engine Resurfaces As USAF Reviews Studies
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2015, 05:52:33 pm »
Ransom - yes, Long Range Stand-Off. And if we ever get a hypersonic missile, the B-52 will be a carrier for that too. Indeed, speaking of hypersonic missiles....


That's what I'm talking about: old skool hypersonics.  And note: no air breathing malarkey besides the TF33s. 

That is an awesome picture of the B-52 and Skybolt's. I really have trouble understanding the thinking of the fixation on air breathing, yes I 'get it', but why not have developed and deployable tech like solid rockets or ASALM (ASALM is air breathing but tested to work) type systems while we continue with hypersonic scramjet air breathing research?

In the Prompt Global Strike thread, if I recall, I posted a comment from an USAF General saying we could have very fast missiles now while we develop air breathing hypersonics, well do it!!  :o

"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.