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Author Topic: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects  (Read 78665 times)

Offline raravia

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Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« on: April 07, 2006, 03:28:19 pm »

Hi folks

I've reading about a number of non-built projects during the end of the 40's, the 50's and even the 60's, as IA-39 designed by Kurt Tank, IA-47, IA-48 a delta wing fighter, two projects called Pallavicino 1 and 2 for sure based on the Gloster Meteor, and others without number like the Horten wing fighter or IA Condor etc.

If anyone had illustrations, 3 views or something about it, please let me know.

there's a website wich have little views of some of this projects

http://www.portalaviacion.com/articulos/pulqui.html


Saludos

Fabián


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Offline Dronte

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 04:29:25 am »
I know relatively little envelope the non built projects of my own country and
I am so lazy that I have not even gone to the "Museum of the Industry" that is enough near my home to see the prototype of the PulquiII that there conserve.
On the other hand the conservation of the historical legacy of the Argentinean aeronautical industry is usually very bad or null. They have commented me
repeated times that the prototype of the Pucará Charlie is thrown being oxidized in a fallow land
A couple of projects of possible interest:

SAIA90 :  http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/saia90.html

Pucará "Delta": http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/a58.htm

Offline lark

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2006, 08:08:50 am »
Hello Fabian,

The Pallavicino 1 and 2 are based - April 1949 - on the
I.Aé.30 Ñamcu.
Both were to be powered by the R.R "Derwent V" powerplants of 1585kg(3.500lb)
static thrust at sea level.

Source : AeroFan-April/June 1997.No.61

Regards.

Paul.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2006, 12:31:22 pm »
The Pallavicino 1 and 2 are based - April 1949 - on the
I.Aé.30 Ñamcu.
Both were to be powered by the R.R "Derwent V" powerplants of 1585kg(3.500lb)
static thrust at sea level.

In retrospect, 1949 seems to be a bit late for a Derwent powered project.

Similarly, it is amazing the Pulqui II was still powered by the Nene, long after most every contemporary British project had moved on to the axial flow Avon.

I do have to wonder if Argentina had full access to the latest British engine technology in this period?

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2006, 05:05:21 pm »
I know relatively little envelope the non built projects of my own country and
I am so lazy that I have not even gone to the "Museum of the Industry" that is enough near my home to see the prototype of the PulquiII that there conserve.
On the other hand the conservation of the historical legacy of the Argentinean aeronautical industry is usually very bad or null. They have commented me
repeated times that the prototype of the Pucará Charlie is thrown being oxidized in a fallow land
A couple of projects of possible interest:

SAIA90 :  http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/saia90.html

Pucará "Delta": http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/a58.htm

The Pucara "Delta" article was interesting, it could be the "little brother" of Grumman's AX entry. 

Would you happen to have some good drawings and dimensions on the Martin Pescador?  I've been wanting to model an Argentinean aircraft carrying this missile but information is not easy to come by, even online.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2006, 06:42:05 pm »
Would you happen to have some good drawings and dimensions on the Martin Pescador?  I've been wanting to model an Argentinean aircraft carrying this missile but information is not easy to come by, even online.

Martin Pescador ASM, 1979

Length:  2940mm
Diameter:  218.5mm
Span:  730mm

Weight:  140kg
Warhead:  40kg

Maximum Speed:  Mach 2.3
Maximum Range:  9km

Offline Dronte

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2006, 09:12:29 pm »
Basically I have the same data that TinWing:

Technical data of the Martín Pescador

Weigh to the launching: 140kg

Warhead weigh: 40 kg

Longitude: 2,94 meters

Span: 0.73 meters

Diameter: 0.29 meters

Reach: between 2.5 and 9 kilometers (it depends on the launching platform)

Speed to the impact around Mach 1

Source: (data and profile of the missile) "Aeroespacio"  (magazine of the Argentinean air force)

I also attach  a schematic cut of a Super Etendard that includes the drawing of a Martín Pescador next to the container of guide's system that I suppose it will be you useful as reference of the proportions of the device.
I have in some place a picture of this missile installed in a helicopter Agusta 109 but I have not been able to find it.

Offline TinWing

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2006, 12:47:49 pm »
The Martin Pescador is roughly comparable in size to the training round version of the American Bullpup missile.

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2006, 02:25:21 pm »
The Martin Pescador is roughly comparable in size to the training round version of the American Bullpup missile.

Thanks, I'd pretty much gathered that and other reading indicated that, also like the Bullpup, it needed a datalink pod for proper guidance.

Still, all quite useful information.  My thanks to all who provided it.

Offline Dronte

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2006, 02:24:45 am »
Finally I found the image of the version guided by wire of the Martín Pescador presented in "Armas '91".

Offline consealed

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2006, 04:54:38 am »
FMA Pulqui Ⅲ is only one I think.
If you have more, please tell me.
The I.A.43 is prelayout of HF-24 according to what I known.
The key to any great story not is who or what, when or where, but why

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2006, 06:35:20 am »
Interesting.. Still Kurt Tank involved?

Offline Archibald

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 07:31:39 am »
Iae 27 Pulqui was a straight wing fighter powered by a Derwent V. It was conceived by emile Dewoitine, well-known french aircraft designer which had been an active collaborator to the Nazi and Vichy regime.
Article about the Pulqui in October 2006 edition of Le Fana de l'Aviation :o
Later, in 1950, the Iae 33 Pulqui II was drawn by Kurt tank but ended in failure. This same person went to India after the fall of Peron in 1954.
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Argentinian Unbuilt Projects
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 08:44:48 am »
The picture rousseau posted appears to be a step between the Pulqui II and what became the HF-24.   As I understand it, one of hte problems with the Pulqui II was that Kurt Tank raised the wing, relative to where it was on the Ta-183 (shoulder -mounded wing as opposed to the mid-wing configuration of the Ta-183) and this increased drag to teh steriment of performance.