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Author Topic: Northrop Post-ATF concepts  (Read 19305 times)

Offline elider

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Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« on: April 06, 2007, 08:52:27 am »
The pic below is from a Northrop promotional handout at the 1991 Dayton air show. It is a screen shot so it isn't very clear(I can't find the original handout). I've identified them here:
#1 Top_ High Reliability Fighter
#2 Top Right_MRF-RFI also ALF
#3 Bottom Right_F-16 Derivative
#4 Center_AX(one version)
#5 Bottom Left_STOVL MRF
#6 Left_CAS-X

I've included other pics as well.

Offline CammNut

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 04:29:48 pm »
I have the same or similar handout, and some pictures. The fighter photographs would appear to be dated 1994, and the configurarion corresponds to the "Low Cost Fighter" drawing on the handout, so that would place them around the time of MRF and CALF, and before JAST. Its relationship to the YF-23 is clear.

The AX and "special-purpose stealth" - a fan-in-wing special-operations transport - are scanned from the same handout, which was touting the capabilities of the then-new Northrop Advanced Technology and Design Center.


Offline elider

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 06:45:49 pm »
Whew! Thank you CammNut for bailing me out. I hoped someone had the originals and would post them. Do you also have the overhead profile pic from the original handout? I find the wing-tip design to be interesting, but difficult to understand how it works. Anyway, Northrop must have seen little value in it since it disappeared from their future designs as far as I know. Thanks again.

Offline CammNut

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2007, 08:11:47 pm »
I need to check my notes, but if I remember correctly Northrop patented a wing design that involved an all-moving tip-cum-aileron/elevon - I recall seeing a model at a show...

Offline CammNut

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2007, 09:17:05 pm »
Found it! It is called the "outboard control wing". It is covered by US patent number 5156358, filed by Northrop in 1991. Basically it involves a fixed main wing with conventional leading- and trailing-edge devices, and an all-moving outboard surface (or wintip) that has its own leading- and trailing-edge flaps. The result is a wing with a double-crank leading edge, but a continuous trailing edge.

If I can work out how to extract jpegs from a pdf, I will post them.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 09:17:55 pm »
I need to check my notes, but if I remember correctly Northrop patented a wing design that involved an all-moving tip-cum-aileron/elevon - I recall seeing a model at a show...

Did they?  I know Gloster used a similar idea on several of their 1940s and 50s delta designs.  However they dropped its use because of worries about its use at high speed.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 09:28:05 pm »
Cammnut, if you have higher res versions of those Northrop drawings (the ones on blue background) if you could post to me, I'll edit in Photoshop and repost with better quality.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Online Sundog

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2007, 09:58:16 pm »
Here's the Patent 5156358 Cammnut was referencing.

I thought the plane he was refering to was the Northrop Advanced Manned Concept shown in the design patent D365545

The fighter shown in the lower left, is different than their STOVL-MRF I remember, as that had a canard (I posted a pic of it in an older thread, but I don't remember which one). I believe it's this advanced STOVL MRF design based on the wind tunnel model shown above which had very strong pitch authority (According to the engineers who designed it when I spoke to them at the Dayton airshow back in the late 80's/early 90's). It's design patent is D356990.

The Northrop AX design is Design Patent D342717

BTW, if anyone has more info on the F-16 derivative, such as fuselage length (Was it a standard F-16 or F-16XL fuselage or a different length altogether?) I would definitely like to know for modeling purposes.   ;D  Mainly just because I think that is one of the all-time coolest wing designs ever shown on a fighter.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 10:04:00 pm by Sundog »

Offline Matej

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 05:39:12 am »
The fighter at the top on the first picture looks to me like ND-102. And "Low Cost Fighter" posted by CammNut is cool. I just wonder, if it is related with the navalized version of the F-23.

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Online Sundog

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 11:29:07 am »
From the thread Overscan just posted about the Northop Model shop, is that the Northrop MRF at the bottom middle that looks like the single engine F-23? I'm definitely going to have to get this issue! BTW Overscan, any glimpses of a navalized YF-23 in any of the pics? If so, reply in the proper thread so as not to go OT.   :D

« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:33:20 am by Sundog »

Offline tacitblue

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 07:02:49 am »
From the thread Overscan just posted about the Northop Model shop, is that the Northrop MRF at the bottom middle that looks like the single engine F-23? I'm definitely going to have to get this issue! BTW Overscan, any glimpses of a navalized YF-23 in any of the pics? If so, reply in the proper thread so as not to go OT.   :D



I see the large-scaled YF-23 Regional Bomber in those pics.  And in the pics above, the artist concepts of the single engined fighter, that is clearly the SHARC.


Offline sferrin

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2009, 08:46:46 am »
That gray UCAV there center right is interesting.  I've got a few pictures of that somewhere and I'd thought it wasn't anything more than an artist's generic concept.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Matej

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 08:56:04 am »
As I understand it, it was nothing more.

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Offline Retrofit

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 09:05:26 am »
From Air & Cosmos/Aviation International, July 1997:


Offline GAU-8 Avenger

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Re: Northrop Post-ATF concepts
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2009, 09:14:56 am »
You know, I think we would have been better off with a steathlier MRF/JAST/JSF design like that one at the bottom. I doubt you could develop a VTOL version however.