Vickers VC-7 and V-1000

[Scott Kenny]

Spark: The VC7/V1000 on every count was simply the superior aircraft and by huge margins.
Why do you utter such things? Who can say? Paper. You dismiss as conspiracy or incompetence

To keep the flow of conversation:

alertken said:
Remembering the general performance(s) of the government of the day...

Based on the written transcripts, incompetence sure sounds like a leading candidate.

"Treasury failed to release funds" wtf?
"The OR was not well written" happens, but is not indicative of particularly competent people at wherever was writing the requirements.

Do I need to continue?

Apologies if this has previously been discussed here, but in looking at the Valiant-derived heritage of the VC.7, and in particular its wing design, was the intention to construct along similar lines to the bomber? I am thinking in the direction of the fatigue failures that ended up causing the Valiants to be withdrawn and scrapped.

Wasn't that a result of the alloys used? If they didn't use the same aluminum alloy (DTD 683) it would not have had the same issues.

 

[alertken]

fred, #160, brochure engineering, others' engineering issues.

Valiant spars do not demonstrate institutional incompetence. Nor did the Ansett/Viscount spar failure ("clap hands Case") which no more destroyed Vicker's business reputation than did Lockheed's comparable Electra case.

The BOAC 707 issue alluded to was a Certification matter where UK's Regulator required, and US FAA positively unrequired a feature (the small ventral fin). Common, then. When Dan Air acquired 727 they must install (IIRC stick pusher), which must then be uninstalled when the a/c moved into FAA Regulation.

Boeing engineering issues long preceded 737 MAX. Dan Air lost a 707 when the horiz. stab attachment failed: the fix was replqcement strengthened material; 747s built before (c.1983) must rebuild the Lower 41 front fuselage - a job beyond (most) Operators' engineering capacity; fuselage belly skin corrosion affected 737-200: highly competent Britannia A/W Engineering put 70,000 man hours into the fix.

What matters is not that such issues arise, but how all concerned respond. Pinto, Unsafe at any Speed, dished a generation of Ford/US Seniors...because they denied, dissembled. On the issues here Boeing, Lockheed, Vickers sorted promptly. On Valiant, if UK had so desired, a fix would have been sorted (as e.g. Buccaneer, grounded 2-7/80). Ministers took it as an opportunity for a saving (Nimrod, too, 31/3/10).

Reaction to the 737 MAX issue by IAG/BA and by Ryanair was to buy it in batches of 100... so impressed were they by Boeing's response.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Pretty sure they will have managed to get a good discount. Also, being a force to reinforce faith in Boeing, Boeing would have seen it as a benefit worthy of the price. Never underestimate the power of money in promotion of a product.