Various Lockheed helicopter projects

Archibald

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with the XH-51 and AH-56, Lockheed dominate the compound helicopter segment in the 60's. The firm wanted to use the system of the cheyenne for civilian applications.

The last of this cheyenne derivatives was the "Composite aircraft" of 1967. The revolutionnary idea was to stop and then, retract the rotor in the fuselage! As there was no rotor anymore, the plane could fly as fast as ordinary airplanes...(no destructive vibrations, no increasing drag, no speed limitation at 600 km/h...)

The concept was aparently validated at Ames in 1967, but the conflict between the US Army and USAF about fixed-wing aircraft prevented any prototype to be build.
This is the ultimate convertible aircraft for me, so i wanted to know if someone has more datas about this project (which seems much better than a V-22!)
 

Matej

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I am faster ;D Lockheed "composite aircraft" and Sikorsky XV-2. My opinion is that its very complicated and unpractical idea.
 

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Tophe

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Thanks a lot ;D Matej: I had never seen this XV-2 previosly, and I have immediately updated my asymmetric-aircraft page with it (at the end of http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/Asymm_addition.htm ). Thanks again! ;D
 

Archibald

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I understand it could be very, very complicated to retract a rotor... but just look at the advantages! If you let the rotor turning, you have bad vibrations and enormous drag. If you try to stop it, you have the X-wing concept - it doesn't work, NASA proved it 20 years ago-
Changing the rotor into a wing? well, as you said, the X-50 crashed two times...
Well its my point of view!!
 

Jemiba

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..but I have one more ! ;D

The Sikorsky / North American CARA design :

... and another one from Marchetti/Lauffer:
Not just folding and retracting, but additionally with telescopic blades ..
 

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Jemiba

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But a stoppable rotor doesn't necessarily mean a straight wing or x-wing .
Here's another Marchetti design with a stoppable rotor.
 

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Andreas Parsch

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Matej said:
I am faster ;D Lockheed "composite aircraft" and Sikorsky XV-2. My opinion is that its very complicated and unpractical idea.

Indeed. Even with today's computer-based flight control systems it seems to be very difficult to make such things work. But the 1950s were very optimistic times ;)!

Anyway, the XV-2 was never designated XH-36. I only wonder how this rumour has come up in the first place.
 

Archibald

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If i understand well...
If you have a four-bladed rotor, first step is to stop it, then group the blades, then retracting the rotor in a special room... Well it's quite complicated, that's right! Maybe one day a guy like the one at CarterCopter or Hummingbird will try the concept
 

Matej

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Andreas Parsch said:
Indeed. Even with today's computer-based flight control systems it seems to be very difficult to make such things work. But the 1950s were very optimistic times ;)!

Just see how stupid is an idea to have one-blade rotor with balast instead of two blades... And yes, 1950s were very optimistic. Now I have in mind some SSTO reusable CTOL spaceplane studies :D

Andreas Parsch said:
Anyway, the XV-2 was never designated XH-36. I only wonder how this rumour has come up in the first place.

I didnt draw this picture so I dont know. Maybe for someone XV-2 looked more like helicopter than experimental VTOL plane.
 

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In my files I noted that XH-36 was Bell, so I was actually surprised it would have been Sikorsky - while Google finds nothing for Bell XH-36, I don't remember where the info came from.
 

Jemiba

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"If you have a four-bladed rotor, first step is to stop it, then group the blades, then retracting the rotor in a special room... Well it's quite complicated, that's right!"

To fold a rotor is common practice on helicopters. To do this at a speed of about
200 km/h, when the wing generates sufficient lift may be another thing ... and
lowering the rotor probably is a mechanical adventure. There were several projects,
which circumvented this problem, simply by folding the rotor backwards, without
retracting. One example was the BAC NGTE, a 1-11 derivative IIRC. But not even
this principle was tested in reality.
 

Andreas Parsch

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Tophe said:
In my files I noted that XH-36 was Bell, so I was actually surprised it would have been Sikorsky - while Google finds nothing for Bell XH-36, I don't remember where the info came from.

I don't know the original origin of the "Bell" info, but some serial number listings (notably Joe Baugher's) mention the name "Bell" in connection with the cancelled XH-36 serial 59-5926.
 

boxkite

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I want to add a Lockheed proposal for a crane helicopter. My standard question: Which model number? Further information? The only thing I know is the payload of 20 t mentioned in the caption of the artwork.

SOURCE: "Der Flieger" magazine 12/1965 (page 293)
 

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Jemiba

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The cockpit section looks similar to the CL-1060 compound project. Maybe a
crane derivative ? Aviation Week 1968 02/19
But to make matters worse, I've found another Lockheed project (in Aviation
Week 1966 10/17), which is credited with a payload of 20 t, too, but looks
different and larger.
 

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Jemiba

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in RAF Flying Review 1/62, unknown to me :
a Lockheed four-seat helicopter without any designation

[quote author=hesham] Dear Jemiba,

is that helicopter related to CL-595 ?.[/quote]

Sorry, there's no further explanation at all. :-[
 

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hesham

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Hi,

I don't remember if we displayed this artist picture to Lockheed
VTOL project which its arrangement was a pplied to C-130.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

The Lockheed CL-1090 95-seat heavy helicopter project.


http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1968/1968%20-%202739.pdf
 

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nugo

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Hi All!
Lockheed Model CL-?

"Machine Design",1965,N 11, 13/V, p.8.
 

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hesham

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Hi,

Does anyone have a drawing to Lockheed CL-879 a 80-passenger
compound helicopter project ?.
 

Jemiba

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I'm not sure, because there's no designation given to this picture in
Aviation Week 19-27 1966, but the description and time of publication
could be ok.
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Lockheed convertible helicopter

Source:
Flying Review International August 1968
 

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Jemiba

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Another Lckheed design with a foldable rotor :
(fom aerokurier 2/65 )
 

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Jemiba

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As you've probably noticed, Today I've made a visit to the library
and I thought, I post some of the material I've found, before it
disappears in the endless universe of my HD ... ::)
Here's an ASW compound helicopter,
that was intended to land on the sea surface.
(from aero 1964)
 

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Jemiba

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"that looks like another cheyanne variant"
Yes, maybe it's the one I was looking for quite a time ago, shown here only with dotted lines.
There seem to be just the pusher prop and no tail rotor and the shape of the fuselage is
different, but the very crude drawing from the lockheed ad shouldn't be taken too seriously,
I think( as shouldn't this artist impression !)
At least the floating gear reminds me at a Boeing proposal, we already saw here, too:
(both pictures from Aviation Week)
 

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hesham

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Hi,

I know my dear Jemiba displayed this aircraft before,but here,it is displayed
with a more info.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%201606.html?search=CWL
 

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stevoe

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And what is that?
 

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Apophenia

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Triton

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Lockheed Helicopter Artist's Concept 1967

URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ARTISTIC-CONCEPTION-OF-THE-LOCKHEEDS-HALF-H-PHOTO-1967_W0QQitemZ350317943581QQihZ022QQcategoryZ419QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3911.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7941003034243910230
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French of a Lockheed CARR retractoplane "project" along with the Lockheed XH-51A prototype (does this have its own topic?) showing Lockheed's intentions to progress from their high-speed rigid-rotor concept onto stoppable folding rotors in the future......

The pictures come from the 15th January 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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Although it's a retractoplane concept, I don't think it is the CARR (CL-945) because it looks different, it's smaller, and the folded-back blades don't seem to be housed within the fuselage here.
 

Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
Although it's a retractoplane concept, I don't think it is the CARR (CL-945) because it looks different, it's smaller, and the folded-back blades don't seem to be housed within the fuselage here.

It's a helicopter Stéphane; I don't like them and I don't know much about them :eek:

If it's not a CARR, then is it a pre-CARR?

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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Caravellarella said:
If it's not a CARR, then is it a pre-CARR?

So in fact you're admitting that your knowledge about helos is pre-CARR-ious, right? ;D
 

Stargazer2006

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This topic regroups various Lockheed helicopter projects from old topics.

More Lockheed rotorcraft projects on this forum:
  • Lockheed (Vega) V-307 helicopter here.
  • Lockheed L-161 & L-197 helicopter projects here.
  • Lockheed CL-475 helicopter here.
  • Lockheed CL-1098 crane helicopter here.
  • Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenneand derivatives here.
  • Lockheed Model 186 here and especially here.
  • Lockheed AAH contender (AH-64 program) here.
  • Lockheed XH-59A wind tunnel model here.
  • Lockheed composite aircraft studies here.
  • More Lockheed composite aircraft studies here.
  • Lockheed VSTOL/STOL projects here.
  • Team US101 VH-71A All-Weather Medium Lift Military Helicopter here.
  • EADS/Lockheed Martin Armed Scout AS645 here.
  • Lockheed Martin Samarai monocopter UAV here.
  • Lockheed Martin UCAR proposal here.
 

hesham

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