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Various Italian aircraft

Apophenia

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I note on the ItalianKits instruction sheet it says "Color scheme of the Mc205 M prototype ... hypothetical because the aircraft was never completed."

So, a Veltro Merlin conversion was begun but abandoned for some reason?
 

elmayerle

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I don't know, but it makes one wonder. I'm sorely tempted to email the producer and ask about his sources, if they're available. I have a suspicion it's an interesting story. ::chuckle:: I'm tempted to do one as a captured example shipped back to the UK and re-engined there.
 

hesham

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Hi,


also from file about Aeronautica of Italy,here is a strange seaplane flying boat called
AN.2,I don't know if it was just a hypothetical design or real one.
 

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iverson

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hesham said:
Hi,


also from file about Aeronautica of Italy,here is a strange seaplane flying boat called
AN.2,I don't know if it was just a hypothetical design or real one.

It looks like a Dornier Wal.
 

Jemiba

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iverson said:
It looks like a Dornier Wal.

Was my first thought, too, but it lacks the stub wings, which were typical for contemporary
Dornier designs. And the cockpit is positioned in the middle of the fuselage.
 

hesham

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Jemiba said:
iverson said:
It looks like a Dornier Wal.

Was my first thought, too, but it lacks the stub wings, which were typical for contemporary
Dornier designs. And the cockpit is positioned in the middle of the fuselage.


May be they are wrong my dear Jemiba,


but why they didn't mention its name ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,


does anyone hear about Ansaldo SVA.13 and SVA.15 aircraft ?.
 

Jemiba

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hesham said:
but why they didn't mention its name ?.

I'm not sure, that there's no clue about the constructor in those pages. ;)
 

hesham

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hesham said:
Hi,

Antoni (Guido Antoni) aircraft of 1923 :an experimental aircraft with
variable camber wing.


I heard that,Guido Antoni had designed anther experimental aircraft after series of
airplanes from 1909 up to 1913,but I don't know what was it,and here a patent for
his concept.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


here is small info about IMAM Ro.71,Caproni-Vizzola C.V.3 and CANSA FC.11 trainer
aircraft.


Dimensione Cielo- Scuola Collegamento vol.10
 

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blackkite

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Hi! Savoia S.65.
Some document says that the engine is very complicated 2× W18 shape Isotta Fraschini Asso 1000 (1,000 hp) , another document says Asso 750 engine.
Which is correct?
Perhaps I can see engine exhaust gas outlet slit at side and top of the fuselage and I can see engine air intake at the side bottom of the fuselage.
Wind shield looks like STAR WARS fighter. ;D
 

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blackkite

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One more pictue.
 

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WJPearce

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Hello Blackkite,

Isotta Fraschini Asso 750 and Asso 1000 engines were both W-18s. But, as far as I am aware, the SM.65 was powered by two Asso 500 V-12 engines. These engines were prepped to produce more power, like 1,050 hp, but they were V-12s.
 

blackkite

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Thanks my friends. You are absolutely right.
To see this picture, it's very hard to believe that S.65 had a w18 engine.
But seeing second picture, front engine is apparently V shape engine,but rear engine is....
index.php

At last I realize that rear engine upper white center cover is not a cum shaft cover. Thickness is different.

I found this site. Very hard to understand. ???
http://doz.jp/wordpress/

EDIT: duplicate photo from previous post removed and replaced with link to its thumbnail image
 

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ermeio

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Thank you blackkite
the qouted engine drawing is very interesting
Do you have a similar one for the Asso 750 or asso 750 R?
I will try to find my photos
regards
er me
 

blackkite

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ermeio said:
Thank you blackkite
the qouted engine drawing is very interesting
Do you have a similar one for the Asso 750 or asso 750 R?
I will try to find my photos
regards
er me
Hi!
I will try to answer your request. Give me time. :)
http://forum.animaguzzista.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55074&start=40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUE87_vgmg
 

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blackkite

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Ummm....
Almost same engine of S.65's?
I see two unified exhaust nozzle outside of the engine?
Why supercharger intake line is so long? Pressure drop is no problem? ??? ???
It isn't understood at all. Please teach someone to me. ;D
 

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Cy-27

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Caproni Ca.90 Bomber

On my recent visit to the Volandia Museum near Milan I saw this model of the sole Caproni Ca.90.

It was a heavy bomber (6 x Isotta-Fraschini Asso engines) prototype from 1929 which was followed by the Ca.91 flying boat derivative project.

The caption board from the exhibit is also attached.
 

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Schneiderman

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blackkite said:
Ummm....
Almost same engine of S.65's?
I see two unified exhaust nozzle outside of the engine?
Why supercharger intake line is so long? Pressure drop is no problem? ??? ???
It isn't understood at all. Please teach someone to me. ;D
The engine is basically the same as that in the S.65 but adapted to have the crankshaft output at both ends, front for the air propeller and rear for the water propeller. It is not supercharged, I think the part you think is the supercharger is actually the clutch on the front drive to disengage the propeller.
 

Schneiderman

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blackkite said:
Thanks my friends. You are absolutely right.
To see this picture, it's very hard to believe that S.65 had a w18 engine.
But seeing second picture, front engine is apparently V shape engine,but rear engine is....
At last I realize that rear engine upper white center cover is not a cum shaft cover. Thickness is different.

I found this site. Very hard to understand. ???
http://doz.jp/wordpress/
These Asso 500 V12 engines were built specifically for the S65. They have a strengthened crankcase that bolts directly to the cockpit bulkheads, hence the name 'cantilever' that is sometimes used for them. The layout is also the reverse of conventional practice with the carbs and intakes on the outside and the exhausts on the inside, within the 'V' of the engine. The box that can be seen in some photographs is part of the exhaust system.

The model on the doz.jp/wordpress/ site is accurate, I helped Hideaki with the work ;)
 

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blackkite

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Without supercharging!!? :eek:
Water pump is located front of the engine?
I misunderstood that this pump is a supercharger.
Thanks a lot professor again. :D
 

blackkite

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Cy-27 said:
Caproni Ca.90 Bomber

On my recent visit to the Volandia Museum near Milan I saw this model of the sole Caproni Ca.90.

It was a heavy bomber (6 x Isotta-Fraschini Asso engines) prototype from 1929 which was followed by the Ca.91 flying boat derivative project.

The caption board from the exhibit is also attached.
Amazing model!! Thanks for sharing us. I want to visit this museum.
Multi engine bomber. ;D
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19186.0;attach=560126;image
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19186.0;attach=560128;image
 

Schneiderman

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blackkite said:
Without supercharging!!? :eek:
Water pump is located front of the engine?
I misunderstood that this pump is a supercharger.
Thanks a lot professor again. :D

That is correct. The only supercharged engines used for Schneider Racers were the Rolls-Royce 'R' in the Supermarine Rolls-Royce S6 and S6b, the Napier Lion VIId in the Gloster Napier GVI, and the Fiat AS6 in the Macchi-Castoldi Mc72
 

blackkite

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Oh S.65 had natural aspiration engines same as my Toyota AQUA!! Thanks a lot professor as usual!! I can sleep well tonight.;D

I can see water pumps located bottom of the Fiat AS6 engine. Supercharger is located tail of the engine. Ram air intake is located top of the engine as you can see in bottom two pictures.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD_M.C.72
https://oldmachinepress.com/2012/10/14/fiat-as-6-aircraft-engine-for-the-mc-72/
http://www.airpics.net/photo/MM181-Macchi-M-C-72-Italian-Air-Force/15734/L
 

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Schneiderman

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Fiat had serious problems developing the AS6 induction system. Maintaining an even fuel/air mixture into all 24 cylinders proved very complex, a function of the long feedpipes, uneven flow from the carburettors and poor impeller and intake design. They suffered numerous fires, explosions and at least one fatality. Fiat undertook extensive redesign of many components and finally did their static test runs with a high-speed airflow to simulate flight conditions, as pioneered by Rolls-Royce, but they never completely cured the problems.

The Napier Lion VIId was an excellent engine too but also suffered from poor design. The intakes on the G6 were badly located with erratic airflow and as each had its own carburettor the air/fuel mixture to the engine was never stable.
 

blackkite

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This engine? I can see three air intakes.

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1930/UNTITLED0%20-%200214.PDF
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?58965-Napier-Lion-in-Sahara/page3
http://www.npht.org/lion/4579702959
 

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Schneiderman

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Yes, that's the one. Napier wanted to keep the size of the engine small, so the supercharger packaging was very, very tight. All of the intakes lay flush with the contours of the G6 aircraft, no scoops. One was on the outside of the cylinder block cowl, one between the cowls and one underneath. The airflow into each was completely different, especially when the aircraft was banking and turning, and the lower one sucked in a large amount of spray on take-off, which damaged the impeller blades. Gloster tried a number intake scoops, but none solved the problem completely, but they did manage to take the air speed record before loosing it to the Supermarine S6 just one day later.
Free of the intake issues, when fitted to Bluebird and Miss Britain III, the engine performed perfectly and took world speed records with ease.
 

blackkite

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Very interesting lecture. You know the detail of Schneider trophy racer very well. :eek:
There is cause of all trouble in a bad design. ;D
 

Schneiderman

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Ah, well, I have a good source of information
http://fonthillmedia.com/Schneider-Trophy
;) :D
 

Avimimus

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Yeah, as I was about to say - I recommend it. His book is worth reading!
 

Arjen

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You did a grand job.
 

blackkite

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Schneiderman said:
Ah, well, I have a good source of information
http://fonthillmedia.com/Schneider-Trophy
;) :D
Oh thanks!! I checked facebook. :D
Iwill get my copy. I alreddy ordered this book. How about this one?;D
 

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Schneiderman

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Very good book for photographs. Text OK but 3-view drawings not very accurate.
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot my professor. :D
Please enjoy youtube movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1vOe5rYPEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve6563ACr-0
 

blackkite

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1926 race winner Macchi M.39.

http://www.squadratlantica.it/index.php/designs/macchi-m39-1.html
 

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Schneiderman

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This is a good book
APOSTOLO, Giorgio con CATTANEO, Gianni, Idrocorsa Macchi/Macchi Seaplane Racers, Turin, La Bancarella Aeronautica, 2007
Out of print but you may be able to find a copy on eBay etc.
 

blackkite

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Ummm hard to get.......
I have a this book.
Amazing justo-san!! Thank you so much. All Schneider racers are very fascinating. :D
I will get two exciting books about Schneider racers near future. ;)
 

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